It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Today a girl told me that I was going to hell.

page: 2
0
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 07:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by dbrandt
People who are in hell are there because they have rejected God's way of forgiveness and salvation, meaning accepting/receiving/trusting/placing faith in Jesus Christ as Savior.

What a person says and does gives an insight into whether or not they have done the above. Only God knows for sure if and when someone is saved, but the actions of people do speak loudly.


what about those people who never had any exposure to christianity and the bible?

and why do we have to place faith in something to be saved?
can we not gain salvation through good works?




posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 08:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by dbrandt
People who are in hell are there because they have rejected God's way of forgiveness and salvation, meaning accepting/receiving/trusting/placing faith in Jesus Christ as Savior.

What a person says and does gives an insight into whether or not they have done the above. Only God knows for sure if and when someone is saved, but the actions of people do speak loudly.


what about those people who never had any exposure to christianity and the bible?

and why do we have to place faith in something to be saved?
can we not gain salvation through good works?


No salvation cannot come through works.

Ephesians 2...........For by grace are you saved through faith and not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 05:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by dbrandt
People who are in hell are there because they have rejected God's way of forgiveness and salvation, meaning accepting/receiving/trusting/placing faith in Jesus Christ as Savior.

What a person says and does gives an insight into whether or not they have done the above. Only God knows for sure if and when someone is saved, but the actions of people do speak loudly.


what about those people who never had any exposure to christianity and the bible?

and why do we have to place faith in something to be saved?
can we not gain salvation through good works?


No salvation cannot come through works.

Ephesians 2...........For by grace are you saved through faith and not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.



Sorry innocents who have lost your lives before you had a mind capable of developing a complex image and belief system in the Abrahamic God...I suppose I will be seeing you in hell.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 05:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by cavscout
With the above statement you just proclaimed as much faith as the girl who wronged you. You, a very small human in a very large universe, would state with such authority what the bible is or is not? You have FAITH that the bible is "simply a book held in high regard and the laws and social guidelines pertained back then but not two thousand or more years later" just as the girl who would be a judge has faith that the bible is the absolute authority on the word of the Lord.


Well said. Insightful and something which I did not have the forsight to consider at the time.


Originally posted by cavscout
If your ears close as soon as someone says to you "the bible says" than you will never be better than you are today. I don’t say that from a religious perspective, either. If you are truly filled with such spite at the idea that some would attempt to live as they believe the bible is telling them to that you cannot listen to their arguments and form an intelligent opinion than how can you grow?


This view does not simply come from a refusal to listen. It comes from a religious education some 16 years in the making. And to often people mistake quoting the bible with an intelligent opinion. So let me clear this up: reading a quote from the bible is not an argument nor a valid point. Whenever the validity of an argument comes into question from someone such as the girl I described, the 'last resort' is always "well in ::insert a single line from scripture here:: it says that...". Yea really, well the bible also lets me know who I can sell my daughter to as a slave.


Originally posted by cavscout
Do you walk through life holding your hands over your ears and singing "la-la, I can’t hear you" every time someone uses the bible as a source of reference?


Honestly, wouldnt I be better off? They are words in a book, just as "Goodnight Moon" are words in a book.

If I were to argue that I should have the right to live in a world without rules and regulations; where the Id is allowed to run free without social checks or balances and never be prosecuted for my alleged 'crimes' based on the Anarchists Handbook would you not feel the same way?

If I were to preach that the white race was created by a mad scientist on an island. And that they have now escaped and spread over the entire world like a plague because of a lack of caution concerning this race of white devils...would that not be ridiculous? I have a book that can clear that up for you though...just let me get it and read you off some quotes. It is my source of reference.


Originally posted by cavscout
Now, what the girl should have said is nothing. We are not to throw pearls before swine, so says the Lord. It is not for us who to believe to attempt to make the un-believer live as we do, for they do not believe and will not understand. What she should have told you, assuming that she just couldn’t hold her tongue, is that the bible states that it is not OK for a person of the Lord to serial fornicate with anyone, no matter what gender they are attracted to. Will I tell an unrepentant practicing homosexual that he is going to hell for his actions? No, my job as a Christian is not that of judge, nor do I desire to be a judge. All I can say is that the bible says that practicing homosexual acts is not OK, just as pre-marital sex is also not OK. Let homosexuals and serial fornicators do as they will. Who am I to try and stop them when it is the Lord who gave them free-will? I love them and wish them the best, and will treat them kindly always, even if the life they lead is one that I believe will lead to spiritual death.


So in a nut shell, and correct me if this is wrong, but: You do not judge who walks freely into 'spiritual death'...you let the words in a book tell you who does? Granted it is less flowery then the above but it does convey what you are saying, correct?


Originally posted by cavscout
I will not allow it in my household, but I recognize that my doorstep is where my control ends!


Oh, now I see. I have to ask you now: If you had a son who came to you in confidence and said that he was gay, what would you do? I am sincere in my curiosity.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 12:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by spines
reading a quote from the bible is not an argument nor a valid point. Whenever the validity of an argument comes into question from someone such as the girl I described, the 'last resort' is always "well in ::insert a single line from scripture here:: it says that...".


The way understand it based on what you wrote, she was explaining to you why she believed that certain people would go to hell. Her opinion was formed from words of the bible, and it was therefore relevant what the bible has to say on the matter.



Yea really, well the bible also lets me know who I can sell my daughter to as a slave.
Right, so the other 750,000 words are useless? Who are you to think you understand enough of how the universe works to say that is wrong to sell your daughter, or even to steal or kill or send people to "hell"? Do you have the mind of the Lord? You are like the youngest infant and the Lord the oldest man. An infant, or even a child, cannot understand the ways of old men. A child says "but it’s just not fair" however the child does not know what the parents know. Be content that the Lord knows what is right, even if we children think that it is "just not fair." Humble yourself.


Honestly, wouldnt I be better off? They are words in a book, just as "Goodnight Moon" are words in a book.


No, they are not equal. Even if you do not believe a word of the bible, you must recognize the significance of it, the impact it has had on our world for thousands of years. Goodnight Moon has not been printed billions of times and in nearly every language. Goodnight Moon is not the doctrinal basis of the world’s largest religion ever. Hundreds of millions of people do not believe that Goodnight Moon will tell them how to save their souls. Goodnight Moon is not thousands of years old.


If I were to argue that I should have the right to live in a world without rules and regulations; where the Id is allowed to run free without social checks or balances and never be prosecuted for my alleged 'crimes' based on the Anarchists Handbook would you not feel the same way?
First, the Anarchist Handbook is a book on how to make weapons, although I think you probably meant Anarchist Cookbook. Neither spells out any judicial system. Second, read just under my name where it says I am a "minarchist" and think more about your question. Everything is there if you have eyes to see.


If I were to preach that the white race was created by a mad scientist on an island. And that they have now escaped and spread over the entire world like a plague because of a lack of caution concerning this race of white devils...would that not be ridiculous? I have a book that can clear that up for you though...just let me get it and read you off some quotes. It is my source of reference.


Well, if your belief about the origin of white people was one that was shared by hundreds of millions of people, I guess I would take you seriously, even if I personally thought the idea was crazy.

Face it; when you talk about the bible, you talk about the most influential book ever written. Even if one does not believe in a word of it, one must, if he be true even only to himself, acknowledge that it is without equal.


So in a nut shell, and correct me if this is wrong, but: You do not judge who walks freely into 'spiritual death'...you let the words in a book tell you who does? Granted it is less flowery then the above but it does convey what you are saying, correct?


Incorrect. I do not judge any person, at all, and don’t believe the "words in a book" do either. The bible tells us how we should live. The bible does not tell us who is saved or unsaved. If indeed anyone is unsaved then no person on earth knows it, and it is not our place to try and decipher who is or who is not saved based on what we observe of them. Personally, I don’t think "gay people go to hell," nor do I think "murderers go to hell." No human can be 100% positive of how salvation works. All we can say is that "the bible says not to do this" and leave it at that.

Did Hitler go to hell? I have no idea, and although I despise the things he did, I love him and hope he made it to heaven, and if he were standing in front of me today and fell, I would help him up and tend to his bruises.

In fact, with all your casting of stones, I know that I am less judgmental than you (was that a judgment of you on my part? lol, who can keep up?) I would not be here, passing judgment on that girl. I personally would have told the girl that I am sorry that my words had caused her to sin against me. I would have asked her forgiveness and told her that I loved her.



Oh, now I see. I have to ask you now: If you had a son who came to you in confidence and said that he was gay, what would you do? I am sincere in my curiosity.


My children know how I feel, and know that I would love them and they would still be just as welcome in my home as they always were. Would I allow homosexual acts to take place in home? Not any more than I would allow heterosexual fornication.




[edit on 15-12-2006 by cavscout]



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 12:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by spines
Sorry innocents who have lost your lives before you had a mind capable of developing a complex image and belief system in the Abrahamic God...I suppose I will be seeing you in hell.


Such spite you have! Who here said innocents would be punished?

You make no sense. Tell me how an INNOCENT can be guilty?



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 01:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by cavscout

Originally posted by spines
Sorry innocents who have lost your lives before you had a mind capable of developing a complex image and belief system in the Abrahamic God...I suppose I will be seeing you in hell.


Such spite you have! Who here said innocents would be punished?

You make no sense. Tell me how an INNOCENT can be guilty?


Born with original sin so none are innocent...according to the bible that is.

So what I would consider innocent, an infant who dies shortly after birth, is not innocent according to the bible.

Is that not correct?



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 02:20 PM
link   
Here is a quick quiz to see why you are going to hell.

www.landoverbaptist.org...

See if you're going to hell.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 02:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by spines
Born with original sin so none are innocent...according to the bible that is.

So what I would consider innocent, an infant who dies shortly after birth, is not innocent according to the bible.

Is that not correct?


No, it is not correct. Quote the scriptural source for that, please.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 02:24 PM
link   
[edit on 15-12-2006 by cavscout]



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 02:29 PM
link   
Of course they do, since the vatican yanked Limbo from the list of possabilities. It's either heaven or hell, and unless you knowingly accept Jesus, you are going to hell.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 03:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Of course they do, since the vatican yanked Limbo from the list of possabilities. It's either heaven or hell, and unless you knowingly accept Jesus, you are going to hell.


As I already said, No, it is not correct. Quote the scriptural source for that, please.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 03:14 PM
link   
It was my understanding that one needed to accept Christ to enter heaven. Am I correct?

I don't know of any scriptures that make exceptions to the rule.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 03:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by cavscout

Originally posted by spines
Born with original sin so none are innocent...according to the bible that is.

So what I would consider innocent, an infant who dies shortly after birth, is not innocent according to the bible.

Is that not correct?


No, it is not correct. Quote the scriptural source for that, please.


I can go through tihe bible for you when I get home...but as I was taught in catholic school: original sin is why we have to be baptized in order to have accepted jesus...

Yep...thats what I was taught all throughout my 12 years in catholic school.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 03:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Here is a quick quiz to see why you are going to hell.

www.landoverbaptist.org...

See if you're going to hell.


And yes, a perfect example as to why one should not take the bible so seriously.

Thank you so much for that link, I enjoyed it quite a bit.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 03:21 PM
link   


The necessity of baptism was defined by a general council of the church, the Council of Florence, Session 11 (Bull Cantate Domino), Feb 4, 1442, and had earlier been affirmed at the local Council of Carthage 417 AD. John Wyclif's attack on the necessity of infant baptism had been condemned by another general council, the Council of Constance, Session 15, July 6, 1415 AD. However, the Council of Trent, Session 6, 1547[2] taught that either baptism or desire for baptism is necessary for salvation, so it is possible to be saved without receiving the actual sacrament of baptism.


So officially, baptism, or the desire for baptism is necessary for salvation. If there is no desire, there is no salvation. Since a baby couldn't possibly know, then babies go to hell.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 03:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rasobasi420


The necessity of baptism was defined by a general council of the church, the Council of Florence, Session 11 (Bull Cantate Domino), Feb 4, 1442, and had earlier been affirmed at the local Council of Carthage 417 AD. John Wyclif's attack on the necessity of infant baptism had been condemned by another general council, the Council of Constance, Session 15, July 6, 1415 AD. However, the Council of Trent, Session 6, 1547[2] taught that either baptism or desire for baptism is necessary for salvation, so it is possible to be saved without receiving the actual sacrament of baptism.


So officially, baptism, or the desire for baptism is necessary for salvation. If there is no desire, there is no salvation. Since a baby couldn't possibly know, then babies go to hell.


Very nice...and according to the bible.



“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life…He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:16).

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame” (Hebrews 6:3-6).


Taken from the site that was linked to earlier.

If you do not believe in Jesus you can not be saved apparently. Mental capacity to believe in something as abstract as religion and god the babies are damned to hell.

God loves you babies, if only you weren't so damned undeveloped and cursed by a fictional sin commited in a fictional story.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 03:48 PM
link   
Not only are babies condemned to hell, but people with severe mental retardation. I guess back in the day they would have said they were possessed anyway.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 04:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Here is a quick quiz to see why you are going to hell.

www.landoverbaptist.org...

See if you're going to hell.



Most of the answers given in this site are incorrect.

Your fist hint that this is an example of a wolf in sheeps clothes is the comment that only the saved are welcome in that church.

YOUR INABILITY TO SEE SATAN AT WORK is probably because you are not born again. The purpose of the site you have listed is to keep you from the truth.


WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHES. It's sad that many are so easily deceived.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 04:07 PM
link   
In 2 Samuel 12:22-24 we find that David’s child dies. David says that the child cannot return to him, however someday David will go to the child. Seeing as the bible tells us that David went to heaven, it should follow that the child also went there, even though he hadn’t had a Roman priest throw water him.

2 Samuel 12:22-24: His servants said to him: "What is this you are doing? While the child was living, you fasted and wept and kept vigil; now that the child is dead, you rise and take food."
He replied: "While the child was living, I fasted and wept, thinking, 'Perhaps the LORD will grant me the child's life.'
But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."


Further, the Christ told us repeatedly that children were innocent, and that we should be like them. Like in Matthew 18:3-5: “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.”


Also, the bible is clear that we did not inherit the sin of Adam, because we do not inherit the sins of our fathers. In Ezekiel 18:20, the Bible says: “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son.”



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join