Al Qaeda threat over pope speech

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Well ferret, I see a bunch of people saying all of Islam is to blame for the actions of a few.

That is the problem is no longer the Actions of a few the anti muslin/Islam propaganda is now geared to attack all muslin/Islam regardless if they are Terrorist or supporters of extremist groups.

But does that surprise anybody? no for the contrary the agenda has been infused littler by littler since 9/11.

So yes what can I say those evil muslin and their Islamic religion they all guilty.

Right?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
700 years ago. But we are now living in 2006. You'd think that the truth could be spoken but apparently not.

I think you might want to recheck your history on that one. There have been plenty of violent acts done in the name of Christianity all thru history, even recently, not just the inquisition. Nut jobs use the Bible to justify their actions just as extremists in the ME use the Koran. You cannot blame an entire group of people for the actions of a few deranged ones.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
You are ASSUMING they are muslims, not based on fact. That is what I have a problem with. Chances are, they were muslim, but do you know that for fact, no.

You are attempting a "don't have a leg to stand on, triple manipulation twist, with a double axle". Not a very complicated dive.

USA
1.3

GBR

CAN
2.5

RUS
8.9

[edit on 9/18/2006 by hogtie]

Originally posted by LogansRun
I think you might want to recheck your history on that one. There have been plenty of violent acts done in the name of Christianity all thru history, even recently, not just the inquisition. Nut jobs use the Bible to justify their actions just as extremists in the ME use the Koran. You cannot blame an entire group of people for the actions of a few deranged ones.

If you have a group large enough to keep the Pakistani army out of sections of its own country, I don't think that qualifies as a "few deranged ones".

Originally posted by hogtie
You are attempting a "don't have a leg to stand on, triple manipulation twist, with a double axle". Not a very complicated dive.

USA
1.3

GBR

CAN
2.5

RUS
8.9

[edit on 9/18/2006 by hogtie]

ok now that that is out of your system would you like to provide the facts that show this unnamed group is muslim extremist? Just because they have links to Al Qaeda does not mean they are muslims. The government agencies had links to al qaeda, and they were definately extremists. So if you will kindly show your proof?

Originally posted by marg6043
So yes what can I say those evil muslin and their Islamic religion they all guilty.

Right?

Well they have to be, Fox Neews told me so



Seriously, I'm amazed at how many simple minded people there are that would more easily blame an entire group of people because the news said so.

This is the same mindset that sent Jews into ovens

Niggers onto the ends of ropes

And Japs into internment camps.

we like to think that we've grown, and some have, but the rest are as ignorant and racist as they've always been.

Originally posted by ferretman2
Rasobasi420...

Once again there is someone attempting to threadjack, unable to answer the comment placed in the thread?

Th echurch has already apologized for past injustices.

In the last 15 years.........how many 'christian' terrorist attcks has there been?

Well, how many abortion clinics have been blown up? How many killings have taken place based on race here after 9/11 from ignorant idiots? Um, Timothy McVey? How many childeren were molested and then had the church step in and try to cover the whole thing up?

The rest of my post is direct from Wikipedia, do a search for christian terrorist, it really isn't hard:

October 2, 2004- Christian terrorist group kills 44 Hindus, wounds 118 in Northeast India.

January 16, 1997- Christian Identity terrorist Eric Robert Rudolph bombs nightclub.

July 27, 1996- Christian Identity terrorist Eric Robert Rudolph bombs Centennial Olympic Park. Kills 1, wounds 111.

1983- Posse Comitatus militia member Gordon Kahl kills two Federal marshals in North Dakota. Three others are wounded.

1978- Christian cult "the Peoples' Temple" leader Jim Jones orchestrates the death of 913 people with cyanide-laced Kool Aid. People trying to escape the compound are shot.

1969-2001- over 3000 people are killed in Ireland as a result of bombings and other violent acts between Catholics and Protestants. More than 1800 of those killed in "The Troubles" are civilians.

1940s- Terrorist organization Christian Identity is formed on the West Coast of the United States. Followers believe Armageddon will take place as a race war between Aryans, the "pure" people, against Jews, Muslims, and non-whites.

Christian terrorism in the United States
In the United States, arson, firebombing and vandalism of abortion clinics, along with harassment of clinic employees and patrons have been cited as examples of terror tactics employed by anti-abortion extremists. Occasionally the perpetrators have been self-proclaimed Christians.

Eric Rudolph, for example, engaged in terrorist activities closely associated with Christian terrorism, such as the targeting of abortion clinics and the bombing of a gay nightclub; also, Rudolph had been suspected to be associated with the Christian Identity organization. While Rudolph has himself denied such associations, writing that he "prefers Nietzsche to the Bible", he has clearly said "I was born a Catholic, and with forgiveness I hope to die one."[1][2]

Many abortion opponents attempt to blame these acts of violence on individuals who have little regard for human life and groups which they view are separate from the pro-life movement or any Christian church.[3]

There's one big difference between these "Christian" killings and the Muslim variety.

Christians don't issue fatwahs or whatever they're called for Christians to carry out these acts.

Our governments don't order us to war in the name of God. We have not declared Islam the enemy of America, even if a good case could be made for such.

Apples and oranges have much more in common than Christianity and Islam in the matters at hand.

Originally posted by grimreaper797


ok now that that is out of your system would you like to provide the facts that show this unnamed group is muslim extremist? Just because they have links to Al Qaeda does not mean they are muslims. The government agencies had links to al qaeda, and they were definately extremists. So if you will kindly show your proof?

Jesus told me so. I suspect you are as unlikely to believe that as any news source I would quote, so there you go.

Rasobasi420 and LogansRun,

Your history lessons are as enlightening as they are relevant to the topic of the thread. I can't decide if you are being deliberately obstinate, or just obtuse. But its cute.

Originally posted by hogtie
Jesus told me so. I suspect you are as unlikely to believe that as any news source I would quote, so there you go.

likely excuse. But yes, unless it shows the proof, not taking it out of bushes mouth about how we must fight muslims, then I wouldn't. You have any news agencies that have them listed as muslim extremists and have some evidence for it?

Originally posted by hogtie
If you have a group large enough to keep the Pakistani army out of sections of its own country, I don't think that qualifies as a "few deranged ones".

en.wikipedia.org...
Sorry, i couldn't get the hyperlink to work. Copy and paste.

The Lord's Resistance Army (LRA)[1], formed in 1987, is a rebel paramilitary group operating mainly in northern Uganda. The group is engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government in what is now one of Africa's longest-running conflicts. It is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself a spirit medium, and apparently wishes to establish a state based on his unique interpretation of Biblical millenarianism. The LRA have been accused of widespread human rights violations, including mutilation, torture, rape, the abduction of civilians, the use of child soldiers and a number of massacres.

This is but one christian terrorist group. Do I hold all Christians responsible for the actions of these few? I think not. And it is a "few deranged ones" when you take into account that there are over a billion muslims worldwide, same with Christians.

[edit on 18-9-2006 by LogansRun]

Where does it say it's a christian army? It's named the Lord's resistance army...that doesn't mean it's a christain army.

Previously you mentions christian terrorist acts starting form the 1940's.....

how baout now listing the muslim actions starting from the 40's and doing a comparison......

Maybe a bit obstinate, not obtuse by any means, but thank you for calling me cute.

The point I'm trying to make is obvious, and very jermaine to the conversation. the only difference is the transposing of religions. If you can't se that then maybe you're a bit obtuse. But I think you can see my point.

I hope you understand that blaming an entire race, religion, or ethnicity for the actions of an outspoken few is just as unfair as me blaming all whites for the klan.

Originally posted by hogtie
Rasobasi420 and LogansRun,

Your history lessons are as enlightening as they are relevant to the topic of the thread. I can't decide if you are being deliberately obstinate, or just obtuse. But its cute.

They are relevant actually, i am sorry you are unable to see that. Someone specifically asked about Christian terrorism, i answered. I was making a point. I will spell it out as you obviously missed it in your "cute" statement. You seek to condemn all muslims in the world for the actions of a few deranged people. There are obvious acts of terrorism in the world carried out by christians. We dont condemn all christians for the actions of a few, do we? I think not. However we do with the muslim world. This is due to mainly ignorance and propaganda. I have said it before and I will say it again. You CANNOT blame the actions of a few deranged people on an entire group of people.

So this puts him in a category of Jim Jones and a few other renegades.

My point is that you don't see Christianity acting in the manner that Islam is conducting itself today and in a worldwide fashion.

You can dig up all the anomalous Christian examples you choose, but they just won't compare with the worldwide assault on the West that has been mounted by Islam.

Everyone needs to come to terms with that, even Muslims.

Originally posted by hogtie
Rasobasi420 and LogansRun,

Your history lessons are as enlightening as they are relevant to the topic of the thread. I can't decide if you are being deliberately obstinate, or just obtuse. But its cute.

Their posts are relevant.

The opening post points out that a Muslim extremist group is demanding more of an apology for the Pope’s comments. The opening poster’s reaction is to demand that Muslims apologize for the actions of others of which they had no involvement in.
Rasobasi420 and LogansRun are attempting to make a point by showing “evils” done by Christians and that expecting every other Christian to apologize is just as preposterous.

I'll also take the time in this post to put up these links fo everyone to review.
Courtesy Is Mandatory
No more scoffing and ridicule...
Effective IMMEDIATELY

Thank you.

Originally posted by LogansRun
You seek to condemn all muslims in the world for the actions of a few deranged people. There are obvious acts of terrorism in the world carried out by christians. We dont condemn all christians for the actions of a few, do we? I think not. However we do with the muslim world. This is due to mainly ignorance and propaganda. I have said it before and I will say it again. You CANNOT blame the actions of a few deranged people on an entire group of people.

You probably remember the Mohammed cartoons rallies and riots, and now we have this. In more radical places like Iran "Death to America" is like a war cry at rallies. It seems more like mass behavior and not some freaked out individual, don't you think?

Again, point is that it's not isolated, it's massive and persistent.

lol islam is making that assault, or is people in the name of it making that assault.

islam is a belief, nothing more. It doesn't have weapons to shoot, or bombs to use on people. Its simply a belief. It is the people bombing others up, and shooting. These people are murderers, nothing more. Im not saying islam is a religion of peace, its just a belief.

You are just afraid of the fact that you cant make out an enemy. You need something to characterize these people, to make sure its not you. You need to make them out to be muslims, or arabs, or whatever else...anything that can make people see that its not you. You don't want to admit the simple truth. terrorists only definate characteristic is being human. If you admitted that, you'd admit that you could be a terrorist...and that scares you, it offends you. So you rather single out something your not, because it makes you feel safe. It give you some one to point out and say "hes the bad guy". The bad guy can be any of us, muslim, protestant, israeli, agnostic, etc. black white brown...it doesn't matter.

But you dont want to see that, because you fit into that group of people called the human race.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
There's one big difference between these "Christian" killings and the Muslim variety.

Christians don't issue fatwahs or whatever they're called for Christians to carry out these acts.

Our governments don't order us to war in the name of God. We have not declared Islam the enemy of America, even if a good case could be made for such.

Apples and oranges have much more in common than Christianity and Islam in the matters at hand.

True, however there are people in this very thread who have "declared Islam as the enemy of America", it seems you being one of them based on your statement above. This line of thinking is not isolated to ATS either. Instead of clerics, we have fox news comentators, and jerry fallwells, and ann coultiers, and bill o reilies, and all of the other idiots that people listen to. They have all called for these things both directly and indirectly. I am not saying I agree with clerics issuing holy wars, that is the last thing I want and they are idiots for doing so. To condemn all muslims for these things is even more idiotic.

There are many muslim leaders who HAVEN'T issued fatwahs rather groups of clerics who interpret the Koran differently. Our leaders have a much craftier way of pushing us in that direction: propaganda.

My point still stands. Killings are evil no matter who carries them out whether they be christians or muslims. You cannot differentiate between the two, both are wrong no matter who carries them out. Whether that is some lunitic that thinks he has a mandate from God, or some cleric who interprets the Koran differently.