John Lear's Moon Pictures on ATS, page 223
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reply posted on 13-10-2007 @ 08:35 PM by Access Denied
Originally posted by zorgon
The POINT is that people like yourself come in and claim that the images are all available, none are hidden...

No YOU claimed they are hidden. I say they’re not. Prove it.

Originally posted by zorgon
Since the skeptics in this thread have repeatedly harped on the 'fuzzy quality' of the images and that no one could make any conclusions based on what the images show, please explain to me of what use they would be to scientists and just point me to a legitimate Science program that uses these images...

Thanks

The Apollo program used them to select landing sites. You’re welcome.

Originally posted by zorgon
Been there done that still doing it.. still don't have the ones I want... perhaps you have a better source and would like to share it with us?

Sorry buddy but you burned your bridges with me. I already got you a better copy of the photo that is the subject of this thread to compare. You’re on your own now...

Originally posted by zorgon
However before you start on your copyright crusade you might want to do your homework. I have no need to ask permission from that site for anything... as all the high res images posted there are links to Nasa official images... even says so on the site in question...

"Many photographs on this website are courtesy of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, specifically the NASA History Office, Kennedy Space Center and Johnson Space Center, "

Funny how you left this part out…

All scans by Kipp Teague except where noted.

I suppose if you want to be a jerk and not credit the guy who did the work that’s your prerogative. Just because NASA is hosting the images he scanned on their site doesn’t excuse you from exercising professional courtesy.

I ask you again since you conveniently avoided the question, do the members of ATS get a % of your profits for helping you find “anomalies”?

Originally posted by zorgon
You got 'irate' because I 'exposed' your website and thus your true identity with your posted resume (showing the accomplishments of the guy you worked for )

No I got irate because I politely asked you NOT to and no you can’t use you the excuse that you didn’t know it was mine because I already proved you did. Clearly you’re not somebody to be trusted if you have no problems with exposing the identity of members of ATS.

And what’s this about “showing the accomplishments of the guy you worked for” in my resume? That’s an allegation. Can you back it up? If not then I must ask you to retract that statement and apologize for attempting to smear my good name.

[edit fixed typos]

[edit on 13-10-2007 by Access Denied]



reply posted on 14-10-2007 @ 06:10 AM by ArMaP
reply to post by zorgon


I don't think those things are specks of dust, but I think that they were on the scanner's glass.

They lack the general blurry look of all scanned photos and are as sharp as all the small fibers and other things that can be clearly identified as the result of making a scan with a dirty scanner glass.

If that was made by me or by someone under my directions I would had made another scan, that one shows too much negligence (or ignorance) on the part of the people who made the scan.


reply posted on 14-10-2007 @ 10:50 AM by Access Denied
Originally posted by ArMaP
I do not know if this image was one of the ordered TIFFs, but you can compare the bigger TIFF with the smaller GIF.

Looking to these two images what you think happened, the larger, blurrier
TIFF (not visible inside the browser unless you use a suitable plug-in) was the original used to make the smaller, shaper GIF or was it the other way?

Or maybe both images were made from a third, unknown image.

Yeah I don't know what the deal is with those two… they’re both crap. I suspect those were made in the early days of the Internet (probably with Mac Paint LOL) when bandwidth was at a premium and people were using 2400 baud modems (if they were lucky LOL) to access the net. The hi-res copies I got from NASA of LO-2-162 (two different sets) that are on my web site were clearly made from different negatives (or reconstructed prints) from each other and from those you just linked to… and from the one John got and the one from the LPI site. The important thing of course is none of them show any signs of “airbrushing”.

Anyway, regarding your earlier point about how it’s not just a matter of “scanning some pictures over the weekend” as some naively think, you may find this document interesting…

USGS LUNAR ORBITER DIGITIZATION PROJECT: UPDATES AND STATUS (2007)
www.lpi.usra.edu...

Introduction: The Lunar Orbiter program of the mid-1960’s successfully put five spacecraft into close orbits about the Moon. The thousands of photographs returned were used in support of future manned lunar landings (i.e., the Apollo program), and served as the basis of much scientific research. For more than three decades, lunar scientists have found great use in the generally high spatial resolution prints resulting from these missions [1, 2]. Over the past five years, the USGS Astrogeology Team has endeavored to bring a subset of these photographs, in a digital format, to the desktop of scientist and amateur alike through the Lunar Orbiter Digitization Project.

Project History: Upon completion of a pilot project during 2001 and 2002 [3], we started in earnest on the systematic undertaking of generating a Lunar Orbiter (LO) global mosaic of the Moon [4, 5]. This involved scanning over 30,000 LO filmstrips at 25-micron resolution, predominantly from LO-IV, and a small number from missions III and V for farside coverage. The scanning effort alone took nearly two years to complete. Once scanned and reviewed for quality, filmstrips were reassembled into the final photographic frame as viewed by the LO spacecraft. Nearly 200 reconstructed frames resulted from this effort. Ground resolutions range from 60 to 120 m for high-resolution (HR) frames (captured through the 610-mm lens) and 500 to 1000 m for the medium-resolution (MR) frames (captured with the 80-mm lens). The result of this initial effort will be a moderate resolution, near-global, cartographically controlled digital mosaic of the Moon. In late 2003 and early 2004, as scanning for the global effort scaled back (with frame construction well in progress), another phase of the LO digitization effort began [6]. At low altitude, LO-III and -V collected hundreds of very high-resolution (VHR) frames of the lunar nearside equatorial region. Ground resolution of these data range from 1 to 5 meters for the HR frames and 10 to 40 m for the MR frames. Concurrent with the global venture, the VHR project [7] processed and delivered a portion of this very detailed imagery to the science community. To date, 166 frames (approximately 20% of the available data) have been scanned and assembled.

[snip]

Data Processing: A majority of the work during 2006 focused on refining the camera models for LOIII, -IV and -V, and geometrically controlling the global and VHR frames. We briefly discuss these advancements below, but defer detailed analyses to future documentation through a USGS Open File Report.

HR Camera Distortion Modeling. Unlike the MR camera, LO mission documentation [8, 9] does not describe a distortion model for the HR cameras. A camera distortion effect in the LO-IV data was revealed during photogrammetric processing [10], encouraging development of a model to correct the behavior. We modeled the optical distortion of LO-III, -IV and -V high-resolution cameras by measuring tiepoints between HR and simultaneously acquired MR frames. Feature coordinates in the MR frames were corrected for the known geometric distortion [8, 9]. In addition to determining (for the first time) the true focal length of each HR camera and measuring a radial distortion pattern, we found evidence of a “keystone” distortion in each camera. This results from a slight (<1°) misalignment of the fold mirror in the HR optics; we implemented the correction in our camera model as a simple transformation of the focal plane coordinates.

Boresight calculation. A fundamental component of all LO camera models is the calculation of boresight so that a true point of origin can be located for each frame. When available, fiducial marks are used to calculate the boresight. The quality and behavior of the fiducial measurements were examined while modeling the HR camera distortion. This revealed a common displacement between the outer two and center subframes of an HR frame. It was concluded that this resulted from slightly different boresights calculated from local sub-frame fiducial measurements. The LO HR frames are constructed in three separate sections or sub-frames consistent with their presentation in historic literature [e.g., 2]. Fiducial measurements and offset values for each sub-frame are now mapped into ‘full-frame’ space and used to calculate a single boresight for HR frames. This improved reconstruction of sub-frames into ‘full frames’ and generated a more accurate HR camera product.

Scientists are funny that way… they like to get things as accurate a possible... and that takes time.


reply posted on 14-10-2007 @ 04:51 PM by zorgon


reply posted on 14-10-2007 @ 04:57 PM by zorgon
reply to post by Zarniwoop

Okay so you found a good one there....



You need sunglasses for this one... and here is the first Zarniwoop Page

Sorry it took so long... I have to go back through your posts now to back track


I sent the image and location to Jack and we will see what he can do...

Here is my version








reply posted on 14-10-2007 @ 05:16 PM by sherpa
reply to post by whatsthatthingy



Also amazing looking for Smart1 that there is only about 50 low res pics available, like Zorgon mentioned. I somehow doubt anything interesting will come out from Japan, sadly enough...


Somewhere I believe in this thread I had recorded the dialogue I had with the ESA requesting Hi-Res images from Smart-1.

First of all I was asked why I wanted them, I replied that I was not going to use them for commercial purposes and they was for personal interest.

I was sent 3 images which was kind, but of course I wanted more so asked if there where any more available, I was told no.

I then asked if there where plans to release any to the public in the near future, again the answer was no and with no explaination.

I suppose I could have asked why but frankly I felt as if I was an irritation to them judging by the monosyllable answers so did not press the matter any further.


reply posted on 14-10-2007 @ 05:57 PM by sherpa
reply to post by zorgon


If you want copies of the original Emails Z I can send them to you.
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