John Lear's Moon Pictures on ATS

Originally posted by zorgon

You need sunglasses for this one... and here is the first Zarniwoop Page

Sorry it took so long... I have to go back through your posts now to back track

I'm honored

Thanks, Z

I do not know if anyone has mentioned this link before, but I think all will be interested. I came across this in a search after listening to John Lear's interview on Coast to Coast AM concerning the structures on the moon. This is brand new and available for the public to download: apollo.sese.asu.edu... This is a project being run by Arizona State University. Could we finally get access to untouched high-rez scans? Maybe, just maybe...

[edit on 16-10-2007 by SixDOF]

Originally posted by Access Denied...Who knew that 40 years later a few people on some obscure conspiracy web site who already don’t trust NASA (and probably don’t pay their taxes)...

That is a pretty wild assumption. How can you put that in the category of a probability? Do you have auditor friends in the IRS?

If you want to examine my tax returns all you have to do is ask. But until then I am free to assume I have paid more in taxes than your gross lifetime income.

Originally posted by SixDOF Could we finally get access to untouched high-rez scans? Maybe, just maybe...

So it will take three years?

This is interesting...

All the original Apollo film can be found in the Film Archive (Building 8) at Johnson Space Center (JSC). Due to the importance in preserving these films, the original film is not allowed to leave the building.

The film is stored in a freezer (0° F), which is located in a large refrigerator that is maintained at 55° F. The staff at JSC has developed a procedure, and used it many times, for removing film from the freezer for scanning and making copies of the film.

So ermmmm just HOW did they lose all the Apollo 11 stuff?

Nice find I have a list of image numbers I will be waiting to see

BTW This is the same place we got the Clementine color images from and they have a Lunar Orbiter archive... unfortunately that archive is missing many numbers and not in high res..

reply to post by Zarniwoop


Congratulations Zarni you have earned it.

By the way are you working your way through the LO Gzips, it's just that I don't want to be going over ground that has already been covered.

reply to post by SixDOF


Welcome to ATS SixDOF,

Thanks for your find it is very much a work in progress over there I am afraid although there is no harm in going through what they have got so far as long as you have the time and patience it would be nice to have another set of eyes.

Originally posted by sherpa
reply to post by Zarniwoop

By the way are you working your way through the LO Gzips, it's just that I don't want to be going over ground that has already been covered.

Nope. I'm not working my way through the LO gzips. Have at it
I did that months ago in a fairly random process and found a few interesting things. I'm sure there are some more goodies out there

Here's something that sounds interesting concerning the use of the hubble telescope imaging the lunar surface!www.livescience.com...

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by sherpa however I have no way of hosting the tiff.

Sure you do... just email it to me and I will post it on Pegasus... if its to big send it with yousendit.com they handle up to 100 megs free

Did you ever get the "thing" posted... I wanna see it in all of its full glory

Originally posted by laserman-x
Here's something that sounds interesting concerning the use of the hubble telescope imaging the lunar

Well Jumpin Horny Toads!!!

All these years they been tellin us it can't focus on the moon... now this???

Hubble’s use for lunar looking would be bolstered by a space shuttle makeover mission, now on the books for August of next year. That servicing would not only install new instruments on the orbiting eye on the universe, but also return the telescope to a three-gyro observing mode that enables lunar observations.

So it USED TO? but can't NOW? And they said they weren't doing anymore makeovers... Guess they changed their minds huh?

Nice Find... Lets put in our requests NOW

Swamp em with demands LOL

Take your own observation run at the request for ideas by going to:

www.stsci.edu...

reply to post by Zarniwoop


I believe Z put it here:

www.thelivingmoon.com...

Originally posted by sherpa
I believe Z put it here:

I think he means the one with the 'string' thing... was that on one of the last two you sent? I can add those today

Okay Time to Spin another 'Yarn"

MOON FOUNTAINS


Catchy title?

What are "Moon Fountains" you ask?

Well let me give you an Earthly example....



Pretty isn't it? Well imagine this scene under Saffron Skies on the Moon... Now wouldn't THAT be an amazing sight to see?

Well it seems that NASA has been holding out on us... (go figure, huh?)

In the early 1960s before Apollo 11, several early Surveyor spacecraft that soft-landed on the Moon returned photographs showing an unmistakable twilight glow low over the lunar horizon persisting after the sun had set. Moreover, the distant horizon between land and sky did not look razor-sharp, as would have been expected in a vacuum where there was no atmospheric haze.

But most amazing of all, Apollo 17 astronauts orbiting the Moon in 1972 repeatedly saw and sketched what they variously called "bands," "streamers" or "twilight rays" for about 10 seconds before lunar sunrise or lunar sunset. Such rays were also reported by astronauts aboard Apollo 8, 10, and 15.

Well how about that? sunrise and sunset rays on the Moon...

Here is a comparison picture from NASA...



:Above: On the left are lunar "twilight rays" sketched by Apollo 17 astronauts; on the right are terrestrial crepuscular rays photographed by author Trudy E. Bell."

Here on Earth we see something similar: crepuscular rays. These are shafts of light and shadow cast by mountain ridges at sunrise or sunset. We see the shafts when they pass through dusty air. Perhaps the Moon's "twilight rays" are caused, likewise, by mountain shadows passing through levitating moondust.

Many planetary scientists in the 1970s thought so, and some of them wrote papers to that effect (see the "more information" box at the end of this story for references).

But without an atmosphere, how could dust hover far above the Moon's surface? Even if temporarily kicked up by, say, a meteorite impact, wouldn't dust particles rapidly settle back onto the ground?

Well, no--at least not according to the "dynamic fountain model" for lunar dust recently proposed by Timothy J. Stubbs, Richard R. Vondrak, and William M. Farrell of the Laboratory for Extraterrestrial Physics at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center.

"The Moon seems to have a tenuous atmosphere of moving dust particles," Stubbs explains. "We use the word 'fountain' to evoke the idea of a drinking fountain: the arc of water coming out of the spout looks static, but we know the water molecules are in motion." In the same way, individual bits of moondust are constantly leaping up from and falling back to the Moon's surface, giving rise to a "dust atmosphere" that looks static but is composed of dust particles in constant motion.

and you guys thought we were crazy... Now NASA is spinning Yarns about "levitating dust" and 'it seems to have a tenuous atmosphere"

Here is the page of sketches from the Apollo 17 astronaut... I am going to see if they will send me others...




Now here is NASA's Yarn.... And I just KNOW Mr Furry and Matyas will LOVE this one...

In Audio...

Audio File: Moon Fountains MP3

In excerpt...

On the Moon, there is no rubbing. The dust is electrostatically charged by the Sun in two different ways: by sunlight itself and by charged particles flowing out from the Sun (the solar wind).

On the daylit side of the Moon, solar ultraviolet and X-ray radiation is so energetic that it knocks electrons out of atoms and molecules in the lunar soil. Positive charges build up until the tiniest particles of lunar dust (measuring 1 micron and smaller) are repelled from the surface and lofted anywhere from meters to kilometers high, with the smallest particles reaching the highest altitudes, Stubbs explains. Eventually they fall back toward the surface where the process is repeated over and over again.

If that's what happens on the day side of the Moon, the natural question then becomes, what happens on the night side? The dust there, Stubbs believes, is negatively charged. This charge comes from electrons in the solar wind, which flows around the Moon onto the night side. Indeed, the fountain model suggests that the night side would charge up to higher voltages than the day side, possibly launching dust particles to higher velocities and altitudes.

Day side: positive. Night side: negative. What, then, happens at the Moon's terminator--the moving line of sunrise or sunset between day and night?

There could be "significant horizontal electric fields forming between the day and night areas, so there might be horizontal dust transport," Stubbs speculates. "Dust would get sucked across the terminator sideways." Because the biggest flows would involve microscopic particles too small to see with the naked eye, an astronaut would not notice dust speeding past. Still, if he or she were on the Moon's dark side alert for lunar sunrise, the astronaut "might see a weird, shifting glow extending along the horizon, almost like a dancing curtain of light." Such a display might resemble pale auroras on Earth.

Astronauts need to know, because in the years ahead NASA plans to send people back to the Moon, and deep dark craters are places where they might find pockets of frozen water--a crucial resource for any colony. Will they also encounter swarms of electric dust?

"Swarms of Electric Dust" ??? "Glowing Shimmering Skies?"

That recalls that 1955 study we posted in the Aristarchus pages...



Imagine that... they knew about it YEARS before Apollo... I guess they didn't feel it important enough to make the News at 11...

NASA Science Reports - Rest of Article


continued....

[edit on 17-10-2007 by zorgon]

[edit on 17-10-2007 by zorgon]

A Dynamic Fountain Model for Lunar Dust
by Timothy J. Stubbs, Richard R. Vondrak, and William M. Farrell

During the Apollo era of exploration it was discovered that sunlight was scattered at the terminators giving rise to “horizon glow” and “streamers” above the lunar surface. This was observed from the dark side of the Moon during
sunset and sunrise by both surface landers and astronauts in orbit. These observations were quite unexpected, as the Moon was thought to be a pristine environment with a negligible atmosphere or exosphere.

LPI-1899 PDF

Although Timothy Stubbs is reluctant at this stage to make a definitive connection between crepuscular rays seen on Earth and the lunar rays sketched by the Apollo 17 astronauts, that very connection was suggested more than two decades ago by astronomers Aden and Marjorie Meinel in their charming book on meteorological optics: Sunsets, Twilights, and Evening Skies (Cambridge University Press, 1983) p. 123-126. Two different pictures of crepuscular rays can be found in Skyscapes, by Trudy E. Bell, League of American Bicyclists magazine, 37 (3): 12-15 (Summer 2001).

Just one of several papers from the early 1970s hypothesizing that the twilight glows photographed by the Surveyor landers and the "lunar rays" seen by the Apollo 17 astronauts were due to suspended lunar dust was "Evidence for a Lunar Dust Atmosphere from Apollo Orbital Observations" by J. E. McCoy and D. R. Criswell, Abstracts of the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, volume 5, page 475, (1974). Another was "Surveyor Observations of Lunar Horizon-Glow"by J. J Rennilson and D. R. Criswell, The Moon 10: 121--142 (1974).

NASA SCIENCES


Continued.....

Lunar Sunrise Sunset Crater Rays

Apparently you can observe this from Earth with a telescope... This group has lists of reports and time tables...

These events occur when the sun, at a low lunar altitude, projects a ray or spike of light, through a broken wall feature of a crater. Although many of these events may be visible on the surface of the moon, these are a listing of the more common ray events which have been reported in astronomical magazines, publications, or from observers who may have detected a ray for the first time, and reported it. Although not of any scientific value, the allusiveness of these events, coupled with the short time frame they are visible, make these real challenges for the avid lunar observer!

If you observe any of these events, and would like to have your observations placed in the reports, or if you think you have discovered another notable ray events, let me know and I will get it published here.

Here is a sample report..

Report #1

Date: 1997/5/29
Location: ASH Naylor Observatory, Lewisberry, Pa.
76d53'4" west, 40d8'54" north; elevation 570 feet
Seeing: good
Transparency: good
Dome Temperature: 52 d F at session's end
Instrument: 17" f/15 classical Cassegrain
Ocular: 26mm Tele Vue Ploessl (249x)
Time: 07:10 UT

After I finished up a successful Herschel 400 globular cluster hunt on Thursday morning (I bagged 9 new H400 objects) I took a quick look at Jupiter and then the rising Moon as it obliterated the summer Milky Way. Although it was getting very late and quite chilly I was very happy to chance upon what just might be a new "lunar ray". I was scanning along the terminator at 249x when I noticed a triangular ray of sunlight streaming through a break in the western crater wall of Walter (at approximately 2 degrees west, 33 degrees south - Rukl chart 65). The ray illuminated Walter's western floor and the lower part of its central peak (the upper part was in direct sunlight, I believe). At approximately 07:42 UT I spotted a "reverse" triangular shadow being cast from an object on the western wall onto the illuminated crater floor. I could not stay any longer and by the time I had returned to my residence and set up my C4.5 (about 08:30 UT) the phenomenon was over and the crater floor was in darkness.

Dave Mitsky
Harrisburg, PA
ASH, DVAA

The Robinson Lunar Observatory

reply to post by zorgon

I think he means the one with the 'string' thing... was that on one of the last two you sent? I can add those today

Ah..my mistake, the stringy thing was AS8-12-2209 and I gave you a link to download from in an email.

Originally posted by sherpa
the stringy thing was AS8-12-2209

Okay I will post it today...

In the meantime I though I would share some figures about the MISSING images from Apollo etc... This data was collected by Keith Laney....

Its quite concise and ought to make you all mad... considering you PAID for them

Hasselblad handheld photography - color and b/w - common to all missions
Apollo 8: 860 photos, fewer than 30 are digitized faithfully.
Apollo 10: 1319 photos, fewer than 40.
Apollo 11: 1403 photos, fewer than 60.
Apollo 12: 1585 photos, fewer than 40.
Apollo 13: 585 photos, fewer than 20
Apollo 14: 1273 photos, fewer than 40.
Apollo 15: 2524 photos, fewer than 90.
Apollo 16: 2851 photos, fewer than 50.
Apollo 17: 3606 photos, fewer than 80.
~Out of the 16006 Hasselblad photos, fewer than 450 are digitized faithfully~

Metric and Panoramic photography - common only to Apollo 15, 16, and 17 -
Apollo 15: Metric: 2546 photos, fewer than 30 are digitized faithfully Panoramic: 1531 photos, fewer than 50. (**)
Apollo 16: Metric: 1938 photos, fewer than 30. Panoramic: 1596 photos, fewer than 30. (**)
Apollo 17: Metric: 1938 photos, fewer than 30. Panoramic: 1529 photos, fewer than 30. (**)
(** due to total size of the Pan images, most of these are sectional crops from the larger parent photos)
~Out of the 11078 Metric and Panoramic photos, fewer than 200 are digitized faithfully~

Of the 27084 total mission photographs, fewer than 650 are digitized faithfully.

Support craft photography
Rangers 7,8,9 - approx 17,000 orbitals
Surveyors 3,5,6,7 - approx 850 surface photos
Lunar Orbiters 1-5 - Approx 3000 orbitals
~Of the 20,850 support craft photos, fewer than 700 are digitized faithfully~
Of these, ony the Lunar Orbiter images are fairly represented at LPI's Lunar Orbiter Digital Atlas, though incomplete and much smaller and lower resolution than original format. The rest of this photography is virtually absent, with perhaps one or two representatives accessible.

SOURCE


~Of the 47,934 total mission photographs, less than 1350 are faithful digital reproductions.~

This means that very little over 2% of this photography has ever been seen by the public, which is unacceptable.

Okay so the next skeptic that walks into the room stating "all NASA photos are available... we can just point them to this post

reply to post by zorgon

Thanks Z they are some interesting figures and helps me put things in a better perspective.

Regarding Keiths statement "digitized faithfully" then surely he must have analogue copies to compare them with and judging by the numbers he must have access to hundreds.

Now are we talking about images in books, publications or a private collection.

Just wondering that's all.

reply to post by zorgon


I have two questions:

1. What happened to Apollo 9? The fact that it does not appear on that list means that we have all the photos or does it mean that do not have any photo?

2. What is the meaning of "digitized faithfully"?

Originally posted by sherpa
Regarding Keiths statement "digitized faithfully" then surely he must have analogue copies to compare them with and judging by the numbers he must have access to hundreds.

That certainly is implied and Hoagland also claims to have access to better images yet neither of them show any of them...

It would be nice if ASU comes through on the Apollo images but I have seen their Lunar Orbiter public collection and its less resolution that the USGS site.

I think they are just toying with us... and when enough complaints come out they trickle out a new project, say be patient it will take a few years to complete...

Well the Apollo pics were taken early 70's LO in the 60's At the rate they are going I will be worm food before they get half way