What can we do to address race-relations and solve racism?

Originally posted by ceci2006
BH, there are issues all the time that people choose between their race and their gender. White women are not immune about this issue--especially when it comes down to affirmative action. That's what I mean that the system still benefits white women, but they speak against it anyway. If they are so against affirmative action, why don't they tell the employers they do not want it right to their face during the interview?

I don't know what you're talking about. I have never used affirmative action and I have always gotten paid less than the men who held the same job. I have never 'chosen' between my race and my gender. I am a person. I put forth myself as such. I don't have to 'choose' anything. I don't know what you mean.

I worked hard for everything I have. I have never been given anything I didn't work for or deserve. I don't know where you get the idea that white people are rolling in handouts but it's simply not true.

The people who need it in our society are getting the handouts. For the most part. It's not always equitable or fair, but it's a big system and it's not perfect.

Why not? Because everyone uses an edge to get hired.

The only 'edge' I have ever used were my brain and my abilities.

WestPoint, hey, I'm only trying to compete with yours.



Things are taking a lighter turn, aren't they?

[edit: Sorry BH, Ceci, and WestPoint, for some reason, I completely skipped over your replies on my avatar (), and I just went back and read them. Thank you, and especially, sorry to Ceci because I misunderstood you, I thought your second response was your first, and it seemed a little terse. Now I get it.]

[edit on 2-9-2006 by HarlemHottie]

I do like it. I said it twice now. It's a great avatar. You're fighting for justice.

BH, you're not the only white woman on earth are you? No? Then why are you making my comments "appear" as if they are directed at you?

Stop it. Please. I am not trying to pick a fight with you.

There's room enough on this thread for both of us if you just leave me out of it.

I really don't care if you choose "not" to believe me. But leave it at that and let me contribute how I see fit.

Or, I might be tempted to say that your words reflect a white woman who cannot stand another woman of color who is powerful in her own right.

And that I choose "not" to believe you as a representative of the white race. All white people just can't be like "you". Perish the thought.

And of course you don't know what I'm talking about. And I'm sorry you don't. But this is one of the days, I don't feel like explaining it twenty times.


[edit on 2-9-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
And WestPoint, hey, I'm only trying to compete with yours.

What? Naw, my avatar has nothing on yours. I swear it.

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
Things are taking a lighter turn, aren't they?

Well they were.

Originally posted by ceci2006
And in your late teens, West Point? You're still very, very young. I thought you'd be at least in your twenties.

Yes in my late teens, I suppose considering the crowd I am rather young but IMO I'm old enough.

[edit on 2-9-2006 by WestPoint23]

Well, I will not answer BH anymore because of that very reason, West Point. She does nothing but accuse me of things. And I don't want to get caught up with her personal drama.

But I do want to get toward finding a solution. And without her replies to me, I think we can. It doesn't mean that she can't contribute. She surely can. But she has to leave me out of it.

Because HH is right. BH is goading me. And I am goading her. And I am sick of it and her. I will not answer her to keep the peace unless we iron out our differences between u2u's. And knowing that she won't, it will be quite peaceful between us on this board because of the stalemate.

This is something that I will not edit.

Now, let's keep things light and fun.



[edit on 2-9-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
And WestPoint, hey, I'm only trying to compete with yours.

What? Naw, my avatar has nothing on yours. I swear it.

Ahem. *Cough*cough*. I'd like to volunteer my services to be the final judge on this. But to do it right, it needs to be done in person. Send them over, and I'll leave the door open.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Send them over, and I'll leave the door open.

Gettin' freaky on the internet!

Okay, now we're totally off-topic. Let's stop before they move this to BTS.

Oh, here's a way to bring us back to the topic: could said 'gettin' freaky', in fact, be the key to race relations?

There!

Hey JSO if I could find her you think I'd send here over to you? Keep dreaming bud! And I guess the other poster had it right, getting "freaky" might be the key indeed.

Originally posted by ceci2006
BH...Then why are you making my comments "appear" as if they are directed at you?

WHAT? Your comment was addressed to me!

Originally posted by ceci2006
BH, there are issues all the time that people choose between their race and their gender.

Why should I not answer something that was addressed specifically to me?

Stop it. Please. I am not trying to pick a fight with you.

There's room enough on this thread for both of us if you just leave me out of it.
...
let me contribute how I see fit.

I'm not stopping you from contributing. In fact, you have asked me to stop (above) not vice versa. And I will continue to speak freely. If you want to be left out of my discussion, put me on ignore.

Or, I might be tempted to say that your words reflect a white woman who cannot stand another woman of color who is powerful in her own right.

Go ahead and say it! (I see you have) I'm not trying to stop you from anything. And implying that my feelings for you have ANYTHING to do with your color is just ludicrous! Not to mention racially motivated. You may see me as a white woman who has some sort of issue with black women, but you'd be incorrect.

No, my issues with you are totally personal. But today, I was answering an issue that you directed to me.

Originally posted by ceci2006
But she has to leave me out of it.

No 'she' doesn't.

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
Oh, here's a way to bring us back to the topic: could said 'gettin' freaky', in fact, be the key to race relations?

Yes! It certainly could be one way! And lightening up. Having fun. Looking at PEOPLE instead of COLORS.

I've gotten freaky a time or two with other races and it's always been a Good Thing (as Martha Stewart says).


[edit on 2-9-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I've gotten freaky a time or two with other races and it's always been a Good Thing (as Martha Stewart says).

The devil incarnate? *shudders* PS. The above is in my things to do list for life (pun not intentional).

Hey JSO V. Thanks for the heads up I'm watching the show right now.

[edit on 2-9-2006 by WestPoint23]

Speaking of freaks, I'm watching a special on the Aryan Nation on A&E right now...

BH, I've asked you politely to stop. And yes, I addressed you in that post. But no more. Our fighting stops today. I know you don't have manners, but please think of Duzey and HH before you speak again. They are both our friends. I'm thinking of them and others on this board who both like us as people.

Now I hate to repeat myself. But please stop. If you like, u2u me and we can be very frank and discreet there. Then we can get very personal.

And yes, I did mention race. Because you don't see me as as "person". You see me as an "anomaly" of my race. You've said that twice among other things. You've been as "racially" specific as I have.

But in the scheme of things, so what? I could give a flying fig.

But no, I will not engage in any more fighting with you in this thread. And I will not take anyone else's attempts to cloud over the subject matter with discussing how I edit or post.

Like I said before, it's so two pages ago. Stop your drama for the others on this thread. Don't even think about me when considering this. Think about everyone else and consider their feelings when you do this.




[edit on 2-9-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
BH, I've asked you politely to stop. And yes, I addressed you in that post. But no more. Our fighting stops today.

Good. Glad to hear it.

I know you don't have manners,

Okay.

Now I hate to repeat myself. But please stop.

Whatever it is you want me to stop, you're not my mother or my teacher and I decide what to say in my posts, not you. Now, I'll repeat myself, if you don't want to hear what I have to say, put me on ignore. Or don't read my posts. But I'm not changing to make you or anyone feel better.

You do what you like, I'll do what I like.

[edit on 2-9-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

I've tried to be reasonable and discreet about this. I even pleaded for you to think of the friends we have in common.

I pity you greatly because this thread is a team effort. And out of all others, I expected you to be a team player.

Now I will wait on that u2u. But by not sending it and trying to work things out, you are proving to other posters who hold you in high esteem that you aren't the "wonderful and terrific" person you're made out to be. Instead, you are acting contrary to all the great things people have said about you. Unfortunately, your silence and unwillingness to solve this matter discreetly shows how unlike your persona online and in the "real world" really is.

So, if you like to speak your mind, by all means do it. I don't give a fig.

There is a reason why I listed that diplomacy, kindness, and politness doesn't work in an issue like this.

That is because I've tried all three with you. And you rebuked them.

But that's okay. Pretend to not understand and use the tired excuse about me not being your mother or your school teacher. The real problem is you can't hear constructive criticism about yourself. And it is arrogant to not admit when you're wrong. At least I do admit I'm wrong. And I try to make things better.

When have you done the same?



[edit on 2-9-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
Unfortunately, your silence and unwillingness to solve this matter discreetly shows how unlike your persona online and in the "real world" really is.

I don't even know what "matter" you think we need to solve. What silence? I'm not silent! I have no idea what you want me to stop doing. Disagreeing with you? Sorry, That's not going to happen. I disagree with people on things and I say so.

But don't hide behind lies and falsities to trick people about your honesty, tolerance and kindness.

What? What are you talking about? What lies? I have no clue what you're talking about. Sorry.

What say we just get back to the thread subject, OK?

If you want to say something privately to me, feel free, but there's no reason for me to U2U you when I have nothing to say, no matter to resolve. I'm fine.

Of course, you don't have a clue. You don't even make an attempt to reread what you write.

But that's okay. Just pretend you don't understand. I don't know how much clearer can I make it.

[edit on 2-9-2006 by ceci2006]

Yes, play it off like nothing happened.

The matter about me is personal to you. You said it yourself. But I truly am sick of your drama. If you are truly fine about this matter, stop fighting with me. I hate to repeat it once again. But stop it.

Please stop harping on how I post, edit or what I say. And especially do not talk about my personality and encouraging others to do so. If you don't understand that, then you are truly clueless as you say you are.

And if you say you don't understand again, I'll say it once again so that you finally understand. I'm doing this with full and total respect.



[edit on 2-9-2006 by ceci2006]

Allrighty then. Here is where you get the Duzey version of SlugFest. Which will be a perfect example of why I have no business posting in SlugFest.

This thread makes me want to cry.

Some time ago, I said that I preferred to have discussions on ATS instead of debates. It is my opinion that the purpose of debate is to prove the other party wrong. And to quote a very wise man that we should all strive to emulate named Dale Carnegie:

Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still.

When dealing with people, remember you are not dealing with creatures of logic, but creatures of emotion.

Suppose you triumph over the other man and shoot his argument full of holes and prove that he is non compos mentis. Then what? You will feel fine. But what about him? You have made him feel inferior. You have hurt his pride. He will resent your triumph.

All these and many fabulous more can be found in the wonderful, life-changing book How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

Speaking of life-changing books, some time ago nikelbee started a thread called What books changed your life?. Here's a bit of my small contirbution:

Originaly posted by ME!
The books that immediately come to mind are:

Nigger by Dick Gregory
...snippage...
How To Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie

I'm not sure how many here are familiar with Dick Gregory. He is one of my personal inspirations. I read this book in high school and whenever I think I have it rough, I think about Dick, the struggles he went through, the amazing things he achieved and most importantly, he did it all while making people laugh. Since everyone else was posting about famous black people, some inspirational and some not so much so, I though he would make a great addition to the thread.

Some Dick Gregory for you:

Good evening ladies and gentlemen. I understand there are a good many southerners in the room tonight. I know the South very well. I spent twenty years there one night.

Last time I was down South I walked into this restaurant and this white waitress came up to me and said, "We don't serve colored people here." I said, "That's all right. I don't eat colored people. Bring me a whole fried chicken."

Then these three white boys came up to me and said, "Boy, we're givin' you fair warnin'. Anything you do to that chicken, we're gonna do to you." So I put down my knife and fork, I picked up that chicken and I kissed it. Then I said, "Line up, boys!"

en.wikipedia.org...

and from more recent times (2002) and on a more serious note:

Let me tell you, never before in the history of this planet has anybody made the progress that African-Americans have made in a 30-year period, in spite of many black folks and white folks lying to one another. When you think about where we was 30 years ago compared to where we are now, 30 years ago or 40 years ago, you could lie on black folks to white children. You can't do that now. They see black folks on television. They see black folks anchoring the news, giving the weather. Who would have ever thought when Stokley and them yelled "black power," and everybody got scared.

Last week, you pick up "Newsweek" and see the cover, "The New Black Power," and three black men that heads three of the top corporations in the world. And so that progress -- the No. 1 problem we have now is police brutality, and I don't mean that police are more brutal now than they was 40 years ago. What has changed is black folks' mindset. There's a lot of things we would tolerate 40 or 50 years ago we won't tolerate now. And this is the new issue that we have is dealing worse than the Ku Klux Klan, because if the Ku Klux Klan called me a 'n-word', I can call them a 'n-word' back. If you pulled a gun out on me, I could snatch the gun. I can't do this to a cop.

And the reason more while folks is not part of this fight of struggle against police, they have never brutalized a black person. They have never seen a black person being brutalized. So some kind of way we have to tell the story of this pain. We have to tell it with love. We have to tell it with kindness, and we have to say we need help.

transcripts.cnn.com...

I guess what I'm trying to get across is that if we continue concentrating on each other instead of the bigger picture, we aren't going to make very much progress. None of us have to censor ourselves here on ATS, and I wouldn't want anyone to have to. I just think that at some point, the bickering becomes not only distracting, but detrimental to the entire topic. And I think we reached that point several pages ago.

Now, on a final note, personal responsibility.

We all need to take personal responsibility for what we post and how we post it. When you read something that pisses you off, your immediate reaction is to respond in kind. And perhaps you read it over and maybe it didn't come out quite how you wanted it or it did, but really had no purpose but to make you feel better and hurt the other person. I used to have this problem. It was part of that rage thing I used to have going.

Now that I have mellowed and realized that the only thing being damaged was me, my credibility and my reputation, I am a changed person. If I write something that I feel might offend, I think long and hard about whether or not I really need to say it, and how it will be received. I don't have to do that. The reason I do is because I want the other person to be able to hear what I am trying to say without immediately going on the defense. Once you have offended someone, chances are they aren't going to listen to a single thing you say. They will be to busy stewing on how angry they are and what they are going to say when it's their turn to talk.

We can continue trying to antagonize one another or we can discuss the topic and try to keep in mind that this is an emotional issue and, therefore, is going to inspire emotions.

And before you all get your panties or briefs in a bunch at me, this post has been on my pc for over 10 hours and I just don't think I am capable of putting it any more nicely than I have. I guarantee you that I will regret hitting Post Reply and not keeping my mouth shut, but I really think this needed to be said. And when you're me, doing what you think is right is usually not the easy thing to do.




The only edits made to this post were for the purpose of correcting spelling and punctuation

[edit on 2-9-2006 by Duzey]