A message from Star Nations

i believe you missed my point that no aliens would interfer with the natural development of another world unless they would directly benifit from it

ex:
terraforming an uninhabitable planet to help with over-populating their home planet would be ok

giving a technologically inferrior race vastly superior technology to "fix" their planet would not be

remember, anything is a wepon if you swing it hard enough
if they gave us technology to fix our problems then some idiot would build a bomb out of it

are you a stargate-sg1 fan?
ever see the episode where the tollan talk about why their world died?

ok, it's sci-fi but the point made is relevant
also in startreck the prime directive is to not interfer with centient species that have not achieved warp travel, aka shown they are advanced enough to handle it

we are nowhere near advanced enough to handle technology advanced enough to fix our planet and as such these aliens would never offer such a thing

the fact that they do implies they have a hidden agenda, that is, assuming all this "fax from the stars" hub ub is actually legit and not just some morons why like to play pretend
(infinitely more likely than an alien race making contact with farmers instead of presidents and other world leaders)

I can see your point but the earth is a huge natural resource in this part of the galaxy there could be many reasons why keeping us around would be useful (hostile and non-hostile) and if they just wanted rid of us they could of done that at anytime during our development on this planet.

I dont believe they will just give us technology as i stated earlier i think they want to help us to help ourselves a first contact alone would open up the doors on a whole universe most are currently un aware of this in its self could help us away from our own self destruction.

i believe the problem is you are looking at this as if they exist.

think about it logically, if you were to establish first contact with an alien race, who would you communicate to and how?

if you were truely peaceful in your intentions you would use math to communicate

if you were anything else you would just abduct some people, learn the language from them, and go talk with heads of state at the UN

what kind of backward alien race would communicate their intentions to people who were in no position to do anything but talk about it?

they would communicate either mathematically (pi for example), via symbolism (crop circles?), or just face to face (at the UN to all world leaders)

most assuredly they would never communicate over the internet

Originally posted by wondernut
i believe the problem is you are looking at this as if they exist.

think about it logically, if you were to establish first contact with an alien race, who would you communicate to and how?

if you were truely peaceful in your intentions you would use math to communicate

if you were anything else you would just abduct some people, learn the language from them, and go talk with heads of state at the UN

what kind of backward alien race would communicate their intentions to people who were in no position to do anything but talk about it?

The kind that wants those people to be aware and ready for their arrival.

they would communicate either mathematically (pi for example), via symbolism (crop circles?), or just face to face (at the UN to all world leaders)

They have done all of the above how ever it is also my opinion that the NWO keeps the information on this secret cover up to maintain there power and there plan for the world, where as the secrecy was started to protect us now the cover up is to mislead us.

most assuredly they would never communicate over the internet

The internet would be a good way to inform people, so its not such a surprise when they arrive, and then there are people around who at least have some concept of whats going on and can help people who dont understand so easily.

[edit on 14-8-2006 by Argos]

I happily await them,

Anyway, its been a few weeks now, shouldnt be too long then.....

I've never bought into the concept of using math to communicate.
I suppose similar creatures might have a conception of counting and rules for aggregated and differentiated quantity, but it has always seemed like a human perception to me, rather than some kind of absolute that other things intelligence necessarily understand.

Remember, we are wired to count. In terms of philosophy, I'm the Woman with No Lap from Ratner's Star. The author of that book claims that not assuming numbers exist as a primary elelment of a universal model is the same as having a model without a center, I think that we can use our owqn predispositions to demonstrate that our predispositions are merely predispositions.

Even with a mathematics, an alien species could apply a separate set of axioms that does not overlap our own. In that framework, they might be able to know of numbers we cannot know, while we would know of some they cannot, and communication would be impossible without exchanging axioms. It has been proven that there are important, simple numbers that we can never know based on our form of mathematics. It is possible tthat axiomatic mathematics could take on an infinite number of forms, with each form being an island of provable concepts not necessarily overlapping with the islands from other axiom sets. What if aliens are on another island? What if the numbers we have proven we can never know are the ones they are trying to use to communicate with us? That would make for a poor form of communications. Therefore, I think assuming math is a way to communicate may not be the best way to reach all intelligences.

If those axioms are based on intelligent problem solving skills from a highly distinct environment, and you buy into evolution, you better hope their environment is similar enough for there to be convergent evolution of problem solving skills in a rational mind. Otherwise, we would have a hell of a time wrapping our heads around their basic concepts. It might be done, in the mathematical abstract, however.

I suppose the problem really is that to know how to communicate with alien is to have some knowledge about universal models for which you have no input, until you encounter something alien.

rambling, rambling, rambling....

[edit on 14-8-2006 by Ectoterrestrial]

It's human nature to force our ideology into everything unknown. Some are so bold as to say it has to be this way based on traditional scientific rationale. That's where we tend to get in our own way, assuming impossibility while at the same time living in an impossible world. The universe is a marvel of mastery and to look upon it and assume anything is to say the least, narrow minded and jingoistic.

This is where the term 'thinking outside the box' comes in handy.

It is Very clear that most of you debunkers didn't even read the statement. Trying to use our logic and perspective on the level of their abilities is amusing to watch, like you all know everything and there is nothing more to learn. Congrats to all you know it alls. Make sure you have plenty of toilet paper when you see Isabella flying around tomorrow(tuesday), you will need to clean up a stinky mess.
Love to you all!!!

Originally posted by truth101
It is Very clear that most of you debunkers didn't even read the statement. Trying to use our logic and perspective on the level of their abilities is amusing to watch, like you all know everything and there is nothing more to learn. Congrats to all you know it alls. Make sure you have plenty of toilet paper when you see Isabella flying around tomorrow(tuesday), you will need to clean up a stinky mess.
Love to you all!!!

Who are you talking about and what do you think this entire page is in reference to?

Originally posted by truth101
.... when you see Isabella flying around tomorrow(tuesday), you will need to clean up a stinky mess.
Love to you all!!!

Tuesday EST?? As I write this it is Tuesday in Melbourne Australia 12.05pm.

I am being sincere btw.

18:53pm nothing yet.

Any updates on your side of the world.???

Nope !

Nothing so far... Checked the news too but no Izabella yet.

You can keep saying they do not exist and I can keep saying they do. You are not going to believe until you are taken or you see one with your own eyes, I guess that is just the way it is going to be.


What I can't understand is why are the skeptics here if they don't believe? Are you just here to cause problems. Why don't you just let we the people that either have been through this or people that believe alone.

Trying to explain to you non believers is not going to go anywhere so I am only talking to the ones that have interest.

To those that are new here let me tell you just a "small part", I hope you can understand what I am trying to say because I am not a good writer.


I go to the Grey's and I'm not getting into all of it because it's long and I have had it with these debunkers and I think you know how that is.

I will say that they are here. We shouldn't be so involved with where did they come from, I think it is more inportant that you realize where they are.

I can tell you this because I have been taken there and told by the one I go to.

He said, We are safe and secure there is no equipment made on Earth that can reach us, we are in your waters, in the "DEEPEST" of your waters. Unfortunately we spend our time and money looking in the wrong direction, we should have been spending our time looking down not up. The ships are air and water and yes they do travel to our Moon and planets.

If people out there want to try and communicate with them all I can say is they use different frequencies then we do, find the right one. One suggestion would be low frequency wave lengths. Anyhow, they can communicate with us if they want and they can communicate in any language known on Earth.

The reason people say they would communicate with Math is because they are thinking the wrong way. They know these species are much more intelligent then us so they are thinking or trying to think in a intelligent way but that's not the way it works.

You see they consider the human race a stupid species. Most people get in an up roar when they hear that but it really isn't meant as one.

When I was with the one I go to he told me, humans use little of there brain they don't know how to use it, but they do have intelligence and this makes for a good STUDY. He said, you try to hard through Science to prove things, use logic and common sense. He said, the answers are the simplest the ones you always overlook.

Think about what I say here. Our Scientist, etc. know they are of superior intelligence and they are trying to think as they (the beings) think. "BUT" you must realize your thinking is wrong. Remember they consider the human race a stupid species so if you want answers look for the first stupid thing that comes to mind. It's kind of like if you ask a little kid what color is an apple they will say red ask that to a Scientist and they might say well, that depends on what kind of apple you are talking about there are different kinds and different colors, when the answer is red.

With people that have not had experiences it would be hard for them to understand. For one example when someone wrote why would the alien use people in "NO POSITION" etc. and have them only talk about it.

Well, I can answer that. With them a human is a human the Grey's aren't into Politics they are into study. They can implant thoughts so to say with humans and wait to see how long it takes for each to come to the realization of this knowledge.

It is we the expereincers that try to share with you. We can put the information out there and all we can say is when it is time you will know and whatever is to be will be.

I will tell you this:

There are different species and they are in the deepest of our waters.
They have the Cures for all known Viruses and All diseases can be Cured from the Root's of plants.
The tracking device is in the back of the head in the middle of the lower left lobe and you wil have to use your most sophificated equipment to locate it.

The Grey's will only confer one time to interfere and that is if we are to destroy Earth if we destroy Earth we would destroy there Laboratory.

The way the wars are going I would say keep your eyes open for activity because they watch and record everything.

The message that this thread started with is a good one the propblem is everyone needs to find peace and love within themselves. If all the good people don't stand up as one and say stop we don't want this and if they don't start changing things for the good then we aren't going anywhere fast. I do know the Grey's say we not not evolving as quickly as they would have liked. Of course we humans do think we are evolving quite niclely.

We all need to forget about trying to talk to the Governments we need to talk directly to the men and woman in the fighting fields and ask them to stop. Land, oil is not worth being killed for or your loved ones to be killed for. They are fighting for the greedy to have the oil and land.

If they love there God then they have to put down there arms and show faith in there God.

Peace, Love, Helping one another no matter what Country, religon or Nationality they are from, Sharing is what these species are really waiting for.

You must remember there are Billions of us that are good why are we letting them get away with this.






[edit on 15-8-2006 by observe50]

Originally posted by observe50
You can keep saying they do not exist and I can keep saying they do. You are not going to believe until you are taken or you see one with your own eyes, I guess that is just the way it is going to be.

You're right.

What I can't understand is why are the skeptics here if they don't believe? Are you just here to cause problems. Why don't you just let we the people that either have been through this or people that believe alone.

I can only speak for myself, but I can tell you I would like to believe. I just won't allow myself to be suckered into believing EVERY story out there. Out of hundreds of stories, maybe 1% of them have some truth to them. The other 99% muddy the waters so-to-speak. This is a public board, and everyone has the right to post their opinions as long as we remain civil about it. This is a discussion board. Many posters of ATS are here to find the truth, not accept everything which is thrown at them, especially when no hard evidence is presented. If you were posting on a board with the motto "Post only if you believe in all UFO stories", then I'd understand your dissatisfaction with "debunkers".

Heck,.. I've seen "ghosts" or "apparitions",.... whatever you want to call them, but I'm not going to shout down people who don't believe. I have no proof of my sightings, I have only one witness who shared my experience once, so the only thing I can hope for is that others share their stories with me. To this day I can't say whether what I've seen in the past were nothing but illusions, my imagination, dreams, false memories, effects caused by something I ate, or something that's absolutely real.
Thus far science seems to have more proof of extraterrestrials than apparitions (dead people roaming around our planet). I'd like to have science confirm the possibility of these sightings before I am completely convinced that they were possible, and probably real. I'd hate to write books and lecture on apparitions only to find out 10-20 years later that I've been diagnosed with some sort of mental disorder or lived in a contaminated area which makes me 'see' things that aren't really there. That would be embarrasing. Imagine all the people I may have convinced over the years to believe in what were nothing but lies. That is why I usually explain to people that I have no proof for my sightings, and that I don't expect them to believe my story. I leave it up to them to decide what they want to believe. Getting angry at them for not believing is ridiculous under the circumstances.

Think about what I say here. Our Scientist, etc. know they are of superior intelligence and they are trying to think as they (the beings) think. "BUT" you must realize your thinking is wrong. Remember they consider the human race a stupid species so if you want answers look for the first stupid thing that comes to mind. It's kind of like if you ask a little kid what color is an apple they will say red ask that to a Scientist and they might say well, that depends on what kind of apple you are talking about there are different kinds and different colors, when the answer is red.

This is rather silly. I realize Scientists know very little about our own world (not to mention our Universe), and many will tell you that they certainly don't know it all (there are few who think they do), but to assume that the dumb/childish answer is better than the answer a scientist would give is a bit strange.

Obviously there are many different apples out there. We have the red ones, but we've got the yellow and green ones too! To ignore this fact and say that apples are red,... therefore suggesting that all apples are red, is false. How is saying "apples are red" a 'good' or truthful answer? It isn't. Maybe I'm picking on the wrong thing (missing your point), but if this was meant just as an example, it is a bad one in my opinion.
If we accepted the simplest solution to each problem, we'd still blame Witches and Demons for Cancer, Malaria, or the Black Plague. We'd still offer animal and human sacrifices to the Gods in order to win their protection from war and disease. Are you suggesting that these simple answers were correct, and that we should abandon scientific research in favor of yet again worshipping the Gods?

I don't think anyone is questioning the good nature of the message from "Star Nations", but that doesn't make "Star Nations" a real entity beyond doubt. Human beings are just as capable of composing good-natured advice and messages without being of Extraterrestrial origin. Just my worthless 'skeptic' opinion.

P.S. I'm not saying YOU shouldn't believe in "the Greys" or "Star Nations", just don't become so annoyed when others refuse to believe. It is their right to demand proof just as much as it is your right to believe anything you wish to believe even without proof.

[edit on 15-8-2006 by 2manyquestions]

Well, well, well. Nothing is simple, is it?

I still think the only useful but of info from Star Nations is what we could be if we learned to cooperate and put off the sins of anger, greed, and stupidity.

Most chanelled material and close encounters rarely present material with literal utility, the messages are encapsulated within hidden meanings and context, symbolical values, parables, and riddles. There is still no free lunch.

That is why I believe there is more than one path to enlightenment. Science is one of those other paths, a tool of astounding ability to search out the variables and isolate the information most relevant for our time and place.

And in the hands of those willing to use this tool to its fullest extent, and as it is meant to be used, the possibilities become truly endless.

You got it Matyas. Good post.

I would just like to say that you use the words silly dumb and childish in your remarks and I think that was uncalled for.

I have know doubt there are many hoaxers but then there are some of us that aren't. I have told you about me and I have sat here and tried my darnest to share with you what I have been shown and told and experienced.

Dealing with a different species isn't what you would expect, at least not the Grey's. We are the way we are and we do things the way we do things. It is the same with them. We may not like there ways and they may not like ours but in reality it doesn't matter because this is just the way it is.

Not to sound harsh but I don't need to prove anything to you if you want proof you take what I share and go to the people you think can do something in that area and have them do the work. However, I can help you by giving you information that they have given me.

I have mentioned they are in the deepest of our waters well aren't there sat's up there pointing down, people need to watch the waters.

Okay I hear there is a Dr. Lear that removes implants. Maybe someone should ask him to ask his patients if he can try to locate the tracking device. He would have to to use our most sophificated equipment and look for the tracking device in the back of the head in the middle of the lower left lobe. They will need a very high magnification it is smaller then anything any human could imagine. They can locate it but it won't be easy and they won't be sure but as I said I was told it could be located. It is square and black.

All in all what you might think of as silly, dumb and childish isn't really. He was telling me in this way because they consider us humans a stupid species. It is kind of like the way we would talk to our babies and we know eventually and hopefully they will grow up and understand.

I would just like to add this here. People here have put me down and made fun and I have shown a bad attitude myself and I apologize for that. I have backed off on occasion but I'm not this time. I am who I am and if you don't like me or don't believe me that's okay at least I am sharing with you what I can, even if I have to repeat myself. I do think it's time we move forward.

If we can't stop our differences on this forum maybe you might understand why the Earth is in the mess it is. We all don't need to be right or know it all. I most certainly don't want to seem that way even though it may seem that way at times.

I just want to share and hope that maybe someone can do something with the information I share.

Lorraine

Originally posted by observe50
I would just like to say that you use the words silly dumb and childish in your remarks and I think that was uncalled for.

Remember they consider the human race a stupid species so if you want answers look for the first stupid thing that comes to mind. It's kind of like if you ask a little kid what color is an apple they will say red

Why is it O.K. for you to say "stupid", but I can't refer to such an answer as "dumb" or "childish"? You are implying here that the child's answer is stupid, aren't you? To my knowledge, I didn't use those words any different than you did. I certainly wasn't calling you silly, dumb or childish, so why would you be offended by them?

I have know doubt there are many hoaxers but then there are some of us that aren't. I have told you about me and I have sat here and tried my darnest to share with you what I have been shown and told and experienced.

I never implied that you are a hoaxer. You can share your experiences all you want, so long as you don't demand that others believe absolutely everything you say, without providing them with some sort of proof. I'll give you the benefit of doubt, I can even enjoy reading your story, but believing it is all up to me. You know what you know, and that is all that matters.

Dealing with a different species isn't what you would expect, at least not the Grey's. We are the way we are and we do things the way we do things. It is the same with them. We may not like there ways and they may not like ours but in reality it doesn't matter because this is just the way it is.

I can accept that. If indeed they exist, they do things the way they like to do them, and we do things the way we like to do them. Understandable.

Not to sound harsh but I don't need to prove anything to you if you want proof you take what I share and go to the people you think can do something in that area and have them do the work. However, I can help you by giving you information that they have given me.

You're right. You don't have to prove anything,..... so long as you don't demand that others believe everything you say. By not providing proof you also give up the moral right to become angry with those who do not believe. Just my humble opinion.

I have mentioned they are in the deepest of our waters well aren't there sat's up there pointing down, people need to watch the waters.

Ever heard of the movie "The Abyss"?

They will need a very high magnification it is smaller then anything any human could imagine. They can locate it but it won't be easy and they won't be sure but as I said I was told it could be located. It is square and black.

That's pretty small, considering we are familiar with some of nature's smallest particles such as atoms. Are these implants smaller than that? How the heck do you find and get rid of something that small?

All in all what you might think of as silly, dumb and childish isn't really. He was telling me in this way because they consider us humans a stupid species. It is kind of like the way we would talk to our babies and we know eventually and hopefully they will grow up and understand.

Well, I certainly wouldn't think that the human species has reached it's evolutionary peak. Other spieces (such as the Greys, if they exist) might be ahead of us by thousands, if not millions of years. Your example, however, didn't cut it for me. So how do these Greys come by their technology, if not through scientific research? Do they just 'know'?

I would just like to add this here. People here have put me down and made fun and I have shown a bad attitude myself and I apologize for that. I have backed off on occasion but I'm not this time. I am who I am and if you don't like me or don't believe me that's okay at least I am sharing with you what I can, even if I have to repeat myself. I do think it's time we move forward.

If I seem to be putting you down, I apologize. I'm only trying to explain to you why I hesitate to believe every "Alien messenger" I happen to come across. I'm also trying to explain the position of a skeptic or "debunker" such as myself. You have every right to share your experience with others. You have every right to believe this experience is real, but to expect everyone to believe without proof is not realistic in my opinion. Get used to it, especially here. I certainly won't demand that everyone believe my ghost stories. If I did, I would receive a lot of ridicule and laughter. Completely understandable.

I do understand what you are saying.

I know I am not a clear writer. When I used the word stupid it was in the context of how the Grey used it. He said, humans are a stupid species but they do have intelligence and this makes for a good study.

As for myself I "DON'T" think any human is stupid.

We have words in our language that people can interrupt in different ways. One thing unique about our race is we are all individuals.

Originally posted by observe50...One thing unique about our race is we are all individuals.

Very astute. And furthermore, as individuals, we possess the power to choose. To choose to be controlled, or to control our own destiny. If you choose not to decide, you have still not made a choice. As for me I will choose free will...