Hell IS Real !!! This Guy Went There!!!!

Originally posted by saint4God
The first thing that caught my notice was there was no charge for the audio or video. Anything that does charge, I have doubt.


[edit on 23-4-2006 by saint4God]

that is my point exactly. I dont understand why everyone thinks this guy is out to make money. did anyone here pay to listen to this man??

that's a big problem in the church today all these preachers selling books and tapes and cd's....i understand they have to pay for the cost to produce these products but in many cases their getting rich off of it...jesus fed 5000 on his dime at no cost to the 5000... so when someone gives a message for free that gets my attention.

anyway im glad everyone was able listen without having to pay for something suprizingly few replies in relation to the amount of views this post has recieved

The responses kind of remind me of the rich man Lazarus experience.

I'm sure someone's mentioned this, but the "Hell and back" idea is pretty old... Consider Dante's Inferno...

For a long time, the church used this as the defacto description of Hell, because it packed the pews... The Bible actually has very little describing Hell.

Ironically, Dante wrote it while imprisoned (by the Church) and often populated Hell with those who oppressed him, hehe....what a guy!

The book of Thomas is enlightening to say the least. Pity it was left out of the Bible.

I think this is scare mongering at its best. I would have to agree with the person who stated hell is just dying and not reincarnating.

I think Hell is also found here on Earth. Have you looked into the eyes of an Iraqi child? Really...the eyes are filled with such sadness/horror. Any child of war, you can see this.

At what point though can the soul stay as spirit? Because that means not reincarnating on the material plane. My son said something really weird to me when he was little. I dont know how the conversation came about but I said something about heaven and he rolled his eyes at me. Of course I was like..hey whats that about? He says, Mum even when you get everything right, you come back to help over and over again. And there is no hell. For those people who do not energy wise vibrate fast enough to keep up with the light vibraton, become dense matter, nothing.
That seems logical really, if something vibrates so slowly, it becomes dense matter, like soil/rock.
I think the astral plane is the period before that happens.

Anyway, I think this guys experience got him 15 mins of fame and public attention, maybe there wasnt enough people going to his church. Gee, he is very special now because of it his NDE & hell...


[edit on 6-5-2006 by NJE777]

Originally posted by NJE777
The book of Thomas is enlightening to say the least. Pity it was left out of the Bible.

Candidly I didn't see anything in it that had something to add to the Bible. No detailed descriptions as the other books did, no conceptual illumination or revelations, no words of wisdom not already said. It's an interesting sermon, but far from shock and awe. Not surprising to me it was left out, but if anyone wants to read it, by all means.

For a long time, the church used this as the defacto description of Hell, because it packed the pews... The Bible actually has very little describing Hell.

As far as Dante's hell description, well, it may have been helpful 1,400 years earlier. Christ put forth enough description to where one does not need to read Dante to get the picture. I'll disagree and say the Bible has plenty to say about Hell (yes, it's even in the Old Testament). Maybe not all in one place in the Bible, so my advice would be to read the whole thing.

[edit on 6-5-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by The Parallelogram
had to be 23, didn't it?

i very much doubt there is a Hell, and if there is, it certainly isn't a physical place (?) where your body (?) goes after you die (?). in fact, that's the first time i've even heard that theory.

Rev 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

"Anyone", "he himself and "he" pretty much precludes that those being tormented are anything but human and equipped with bodies since assumedly spirits can't be "tormented" by fire or any other thing physical. Neither can a spirit "receive the mark of his name" in an incorporal state; where would such a mark be placed?

For any who say they don't believe in the New Testament here is a witness from the Psalms 55:15 Let death seize them; Let them go down alive into hell, For wickedness is in their dwellings and among them.

As for those who don't believe in hell, I'd have to ask how is that possible if you believe in God, Scripture or Jesus since all 3 speak of it and certainly "believe" in it. If you don't believe those 3 witnesses, then you are deliberately ignoring the possibility that it DOES exist and that it might be your destination one day.

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I don't know everything but I know the One Who does.

Originally posted by happness
As for those who don't believe in hell, I'd have to ask how is that possible if you believe in God, Scripture or Jesus since all 3 speak of it and certainly "believe" in it. If you don't believe those 3 witnesses, then you are deliberately ignoring the possibility that it DOES exist and that it might be your destination one day.

I don't believe in Jesus. I keep the possibility of Jesus at stake, as well as God and Buddha, and Allah and Mohammed and whoever may have walked our Earth.

So your basicly saying that everyone is ignorant if they dismiss Jesus, God and the scripture... Look whos talking...

Originally posted by VolatileI don't believe in Jesus. I keep the possibility of Jesus at stake, as well as God and Buddha, and Allah and Mohammed and whoever may have walked our Earth.

So your basicly saying that everyone is ignorant if they dismiss Jesus, God and the scripture... Look whos talking...

YOU "keep the possibility" of Jesus, God, Buddha, Allah, Mohammed, whoever may have walked our Earth? What the heck does that mean?

Originally posted by happness
YOU "keep the possibility" of Jesus, God, Buddha, Allah, Mohammed, whoever may have walked our Earth? What the heck does that mean?

... It means I keep the possibility that they walked the Earth in mind... Too hard for you to understand? :/

It means that you are deciding who is and who is not God....and perhaps deciding that after all, it is you who created the heavens and the earth? Who brings the snow from the treasury and drips rain on dry ground?

You who breathed life into man and made of him a living soul?

Buddha smiles and does nothing, it is an idol supposedly formed in the shape of a particular man long dead. Only Jesus lives on in eternal resurrection, seated at the right hand of the Creator of the Universe, upholding all things by the power of His Word.

It is soooo gracious of you to hold out the possiblity that Jesus walked on the earth he has allowed you to live and breathe and move around on.

Theres no point to this, as you are alittle to much absent minded to have a conversation with.

Originally posted by happness
It means that you are deciding who is and who is not God....and perhaps deciding that after all, it is you who created the heavens and the earth? Who brings the snow from the treasury and drips rain on dry ground?

You who breathed life into man and made of him a living soul?

Buddha smiles and does nothing, it is an idol supposedly formed in the shape of a particular man long dead. Only Jesus lives on in eternal resurrection, seated at the right hand of the Creator of the Universe, upholding all things by the power of His Word.

It is soooo gracious of you to hold out the possiblity that Jesus walked on the earth he has allowed you to live and breathe and move around on.

I believe that for one to be truly faithful to any God, it should be a logical knowledgeable choice. Notice I said should be, but I know that will never happen because God has, for one reason or another, made it incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to find concrete proof that he exists. See, what I've heard is that God really wants us to find him. He wants us to know that he exists, but how can a person know if he's just forcing himself to believe? Afraid to go to Hell, want to go to Heaven, whatever the reason, it seems like artificial belief unless you have something real to base it off of. If you're just a believer because of how or where you were raised, or maybe somebody told you you better believe, it seems shallow. It feels like had this person been raised Muslim, he would be just as faithful a muslim. And how can God send people to Hell if all they're able to attain in this world is artificial belief?

I'll use an analogy to demonstrate what I mean. Steve never knew his father. All his life, he wanted to know who his father was, but he never found even a scrap of paper to proove who it really was. One day, his brother Joe comes to him, and tells him it's this guy named Jeff. Jeff lives in another country, and they'll never be able to see him until they're fifty years old (let's just say that they're twenty at the time.) There's one catch, though, if Steven doesn't believe that Jeff is his father, he'll never get to see him. Worse yet, if he doesn't believe, Jeff will send some goons over to kill him when he's fifty. Should Steven believe because Jeff created him and will send goons over to kill him? What a compelling argument - it's like circular logic. He should believe because Jeff gave him life, and if he doesn't he'll be killed. But how does he know that Jeff really created him or that he even exists? It doesn't matter, he should be thanking God that Jeff even created him in the first place...

Oddly enough, I still consider myself a Christian . I know, it's hypocritical/paradoxal. I believe, but I also know that I don't have enough knowlege to know, and hopefully one day I'll attain that knowlege. Anyway, if you got through that, thanks for reading!

Originally posted by HermanI believe that for one to be truly faithful to any God, it should be a logical knowledgeable choice. Notice I said should be, but I know that will never happen because God has, for one reason or another, made it incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to find concrete proof that he exists. See, what I've heard is that God really wants us to find him. He wants us to know that he exists, but how can a person know if he's just forcing himself to believe? >>snip

quick question, happness, how old do you think the earth is?

[edit on 9-5-2006 by edwardteach]

Originally posted by happness

I "got through it" but found it incredibly sad. Apparently you believe God to be a sadistic murderer who hides Himself and then punishes for disbelief those who do not find "legitimate" reason to believe in Him.

I honestly can't think from where, in my post, you drew that conclusion.

On the contrary, as His Word says, He has made Himself visible to man through the Universe He created, the minutuae of it and the grandness of it. Man has determined that he'd rather not "hold God in his consciousness" and so has been given over to what the Bible terms a "reprobate mind", one that, in fact, CANNOT understand spiritual matters. Hence, the complaint that "logical concrete proof" of His existence is, well, non-existent.

I agree that man can never fully comprehend God's existence. God's power is absolute, and it goes way beyond human logic; however, that's where the paradox comes in. If God is more complicated than we can ever imagine, and we can't find him logically, how are we supposed to honestly "know" that he exists? The truth, I'm afraid, is that there is no way to "know." It's faith - but if the only way God reveals himself is through faith, than should one really be punished for choosing not to believe?

Those who have reasonably concluded that since they can neither add years nor an inch to their stature, nor force their lungs and heart to continue to beat, they'd best be looking around for that which/He Who can, and find that He is present and accounted for in every place they look.

It's easy to come to the logical conclusion that there is a being out there that is higher than us, and that he is God. What's an impossible logical conclusion to come to is the one that explains religion. I'm not talking about the existence of God, I'm talking about who/what he is, and how can someone be sure of who God is if they can never truley "know" him. (Remember, he's more complicated than we can comprehend?)

His Word says He has given EVERY man a measure of faith...used correctly, it can be utilized to believe in Him. Used for man's personal and usually twisted purposes, it can be used against him himself and cause him to believe he is free to worship, for instance, Allah, or Buddha, or even satan, and who is to say nay to him?

No, the bible says that. If you believe that the bible is 100% accurate and the literal word of God, I shouldn't even be wasting energy debating you. Your argument seems to be that God has given us faith, and it is up to us how to use it, but the answer, if there is one out there, is so incredibly ambiguous that a person cannot be blamed for coming to the "wrong" conclusion.

Surprisingly, it is true...he can use it in that way, and God will not kill him for misusing the gift, even for worshipping His lost angel. He can mock God, curse God, ridicule the gifts of God, and God Himself.

He does worse than kill us! He allows us to be tortured for all eternity in Hell.

But, what he cannot do is save himself from the end the one who has made of himself an enemy of man and God will come to, the fires of hell.

If one believes in God to miss hell, they do well. If they believe in Him because they love the One Who has provided all things pertaining to life and godliness for them, they do even better.

I'm still faithful, but if I was no longer able to believe anymore, would that make me an enemy of God? How can you, as a flawed being, blame other flawed beings for making the wrong choice when the right choice is literally impossible to actually find?

The choice is up to you...you can use your measure of faith to vacillate between believing and not believing, or you can proclaim your faith in God, and then find that He is very, very easy to believe in and that as you go along, He makes Himself more and more obvious to your life in a multitude of ways, but that happens only after you give up that tone of distrust and unbelief.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, after all, and not the 'PROOF' you wish were available. Else faith is no longer faith but knowledge. It is not said that without knowledge one cannot please God but that without FAITH one cannot please God.

You persist in saying that God makes it difficult to believe in Him, or to believe that He is, I guess. It is not He but your own attitudes and desires that make it difficult. You want Him to prove Himself to you? Is that it?

Forget it, that will never happen. And why not? Because you are demanding an accounting of the One Who created you and as it is written, shall the pot ask the potter "Why have you made me this way?" If He is indeed God, how would He satisfy your demand, oh man? Would He put on an ugly face like that one on your posts of the Misfits? Would He produce a vision? What would He need do to satisfy your demand?

You have spoken some pretty strong words about Him, what does He say about you?
Are you SURE you want Him to show Himself to you?

I sometimes think that God is very clever (doh?), because everytime something bad happens... People usually refere it to "Why do God let this happen?", and in simple term... Evil intentions, strengthens the belief of God... See what I mean?

Originally posted by Volatile
I sometimes think.... Evil intentions, strengthens the belief of God... See what I mean?

I don't see your point very clearly but let me take a stab at it...you are stating that the evil that happens makes us believe in God? Let's take that one step at a time:

That evil comes from God? Well, and you are correct if that is what you are saying. Joshua 23:15 states it quite baldly, saying "Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you."

However, when evil befalls us it is not just because we are being punished, and that is our sole reason for suffering, it is so that we will return to Him, Who has such power, and confessing our wickedness, also confess that we 'HAD IT COMING'. If you read Ezekiel, Isaiah, and most of the other OT prophets, you will see that over and over, the people of God "left their God" and took up other "gods", like Moloch, Ba'al and the like. Though those are not living gods, they were looked on as such, so the people who worshipped them believed in the lie that they had some kind of power, and as with Moloch, even cast their own children into the fires that burned before the image.

So, I guess you could say the "evil befell them" because they were stupid, blind, ignorant, and deliberately so, since they knew God Himself had led them out of Egypt after 430 years of captivity, provided for them in the wilderness, and led them to the "land that flows with milk and honey", yet CHOSE to worship everywhere else, even though they knew God is a "jealous" God and does not take idol worship lightly.

Here is the following verse in Joshua 23:16 When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you.


That was in the OT and since Jesus came and died for us, the good for the evil, God's wrath is already poured out, and we can come boldly to Him as per Hebrews 4: 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

It is by faith that we can enter His presence in prayer and ask Him for mercy, thereby finding grace to help us in our time of need, whether that need is for forgiveness, or other daily help.

And realize, that when we seek His shelter and help, we are fully protected as Ps 91 says: 9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation; 10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. 11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. 12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

This Psalm is longer than these 4 verses and well worth the read.

You see, it is by faith that we approach God, by faith that we take Him at His Word, by faith that we grow in grace and the admonition of the Lord, by faith that we come to understand spiritual things, by faith that we are saved, from death, from hell, from disaster and evil, from all things contrary to us. And since He has given us the gift of a measure of faith, it seems it would be wise to utilize it in believing in Him, putting our trust in Him and glorifying Him by our faith.

Evil does not COME from God, it is just there to be felt... It is a vibration that travels everywhere, and is made from the actions that people do.

What I meant was; People's belief in God is strengthened through evil, as when discussing evil, people usually refere to God as; "Why did God let this happen to us!?" and by looking at those statements, you can easily conclude that the person actually recieves an amount of belief in God from the bad things that happen in the world...

That does not mean that God is evil ... It means that God is clever indeed, and uses the 'Devils' own evil to influence those who do not yet have a faith to believe in...

[edit on 10-5-2006 by Volatile]

Originally posted by Volatile
Evil does not COME from God, it is just there to be felt... It is a vibration that travels everywhere, and is made from the actions that people do.[edit on 10-5-2006 by Volatile]

Amazing that you CAN believe that "evil is a vibration", which of course you can PROVE, right?, but CAN'T/WON'T believe that God Himself said He would send evil on those who go after other gods.