Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by celticniall

attacking his integrity.

The questions and commentaries directed at Anon are in regards to the Serpo DATA. Not Anon personally.

Anon comment about disturbing questions are in regards to questions about the validty and truth of some of the SERPO data.

Not the truth of who Anon is, since Anon is not even A single person but yet a Trio or Quartet of people.

THERE IS NO INTEGRITY of the SERPO DATA. We can neither say it is false nor that it is true. It is Ficticious at this point because of this simple statement.

Therefore how could your integrity be called into question if the data that you are standing by can not be verified either way.

Its like saying a preacher has no integrity in the face of the atheist because the preacher can not produce substantail fact to satisfy the atheist request for proof of GOD's existence.

Therefore in the atheist viewpoint a preacher has no integrity because the atheist believes the preacher is talking nonsense. Yet the atheist has no prood that GOD does not exist either.

So the atheist can not pass judgement based on integrity of the preachers postion that GOD does exist. Because neither claim is verifiable as fact.

Only by faith and in the above case the preacher has faith that GOD does exist and his word was passed down to be teached to the masses. And the Atheist must have faith that GOD does not exist in the mannerism in which the preacher is trying to teach.

So is SERPO. A work of faith by two divides neither of which posses the ability to say for certain which is fact and which is fiction. BUT in the case of modern day works, we have access to the writers of the story, the pens to the paper if you will.

And the "fact" of SERPO does indeed exist. There are people who know for 100% certainty the truth about this PROJECT SERPO the EBEN's. There is indeed an answer.

Just as POE knew for certain what was fact and what was fiction.

Unlike GOD

Originally posted by celticniall
I think what Bill was concerned about was that certain members were attacking his integrity. I believe, as many others do, that Bill has been open and honest with the members of ATS.

Bill has. I think he's been trying to give a fair and balanced delivery of Anon's story since the beginning; and after all that work was naturally a bit frustrated at the recent string of questions related to his and Victor's personal integrity. All of these questions were answered promptly and conclusively. The accusation that Bill Ryan was David Icke, though, SHOULD have been investigated BY THE POSTER prior to putting it on this forum. That was just ridiculous.

It's not like anyone had to look any further than the ATS homepage for a link to a picture of David Icke.

And pictures of Bill Ryan have been on the net for at least the last month.

I have come to know Bill well enough to believe that his frustration was not as a result of anyone asserting reasonable questions. It's the unreasonable questions that are meant to be disruptive, or have that effect due solely to the irresponsibility of the poster, that caused him to question whether it's worthwhile to continue to devote his time to this effort.

[edit on 19-1-2006 by Centrist]

Originally posted by robertfenix

Originally posted by Bill Ryan

Anonymous complains in his fifth posting: www.serpo.org...

I find some of the questions [from various list members] to be very disturbing. I expected thoughfulness in the responses, rather than criticism.

This evening, two months later, I found myself (exacerbated by tiredness) feeling precisely the same as he described. So it was quiet an eye-opener.

I wonder why he may have gone quiet, then...?

Best, Bill

Bill, if you are not the writer of Serpo and the accounts of "serpo" then why would you feel personally attacked when questions are prosed against the validity of the Serpo information.....

If you are simply the communication channel then you should have no personal attachement either way. The coulpability then should reside on the writers of "serpo" not you as a person who just has provided the forum by which the "data" could be shared on the internet to the general population.

IF I did not write the story then I can not be responsible for the ideas contained within. Therefore any questions that came about I can not be held accountable to because it is not a creation from ME, but rather of someone else.

However IF I did have some hand in writing the story then accusations that the I mave miscalculated something would be taken as a personal threat against my intelligence and my prior research.

So I fail to see how any questions could be "disturbing" and what is "criticism" other then checking the validity of a claim.

This one statement

I find some of the questions [from various list members] to be very disturbing. I expected thoughfulness in the responses, rather than criticism.

Sounds a lot like the Dan Burisch camp Don Deppler and the Golden Rule. In regards to Dont question my veiled secrets of desception. But rather give me only praise for my fanciful creation.

Objective questioning "criticism" is about weeding out the truth based on real data. As in the known Zeta star system, orbital body mechanics, cultural assimilation, wavelength and interplanetary communications,Radiation and thermal atmospheric transference, Chronological record keeping and great works of literature from our past.

Poe was a great, brillant master of the written "hoax".

He celebrated those few individuals that could read through is crafted works to see it from his point of few and he laughed at the guliable masses that believed his works for absolute fact.

[edit on 19-1-2006 by robertfenix]

Hi, robertfenix –

I think anyone with integrity and intelligence would understand and appreciate why another intelligent person would ask good, carefully thought out, probing questions in response to extraordinary claims. I did that myself when the information first came out – my questions to Anon are all on the website, which I assume you've read carefully. As you'll remember, I was asking, in a courteous way, how come this and how come that?

Anon appreciated it because I was not questioning him, I was questioning the data. My questions allowed him to expand on things in his next post, so it was a helpful process. Many questions posed here are also helpful in exactly the same way. (Example: jgbjgb's question about the specific contributions of the "2% ghost". I realised I didn't know the answer to that one myself and relayed the question to Victor, who has since responded saying he'll go through the data again and will get back to me.)

So that's all fine and is part of the scientific method, which is predicated on getting and analysing data, and then forming intelligent hypotheses which (ideally) can be tested. What irritated Anon, I think – and irritated me – was when it wasn't the data that was being questioned, it was silly ad hominem attacks that questioned his/my integrity. That's what seemed like a cheap shot. You'll see, I think, that there's not a single question I'd not answered as best I could – and sometimes with considerable thought and time devoted to it – and yet some forum members were still suggesting I was a hoaxer or that I was not who I claimed to be.

I'm not sure how I can explain that any better... does that make more sense to you? I'm happy to have another go if it doesn't.

Best, Bill

Originally posted by Centrist

Originally posted by celticniall
I think what Bill was concerned about was that certain members were attacking his integrity. I believe, as many others do, that Bill has been open and honest with the members of ATS.

Bill has. I think he's been trying to give a fair and balanced delivery of Anon's story since the beginning; and after all that work was naturally a bit frustrated at the recent string of questions related to his and Victor's personal integrity. All of these questions were answered promptly and conclusively. The accusation that Bill Ryan was David Icke, though, SHOULD have been investigated BY THE POSTER prior to putting it on this forum. That was just ridiculous.

It's not like anyone had to look any further than the ATS homepage for a link to a picture of David Icke.

And pictures of Bill Ryan have been on the net for at least the last month.

I have come to know Bill well enough to believe that his frustration was not as a result of anyone asserting reasonable questions. It's the unreasonable questions that are meant to be disruptive, or have that effect due solely to the irresponsibility of the poster, that caused him to question whether it's worthwhile to continue to devote his time to this effort.

[edit on 19-1-2006 by Centrist]

Im begining to take offence to your assertion that im the ugly duckling here.(if my investigations are indeed hurting - then so be it - the ufo community doesnt need another shag harbor event or a roswell - we want the hard facts.)

We live in a universe that has 3 dimensions - larger objects attract smaller objects - readup on physics) - therefore whereever in this universe you stand - the physics will remain the same.

The john tartar story had photos - that became an urban legend. -(loved the surname of this tartar guy btw)

This story (since we have no real proof - just hearsay etc) - one which you posted initially has alot of interest - but when are we going to see the goods that decide - yes this is true - or yes this again destablisies the ufo community for what, the sake of pluging a book? film? documentary?? ill remain a skeptic rather then one of the sheep, that time and again have listen/read this type of information - but sadly, itll probably never be answered satisfactually.

**Another technique im begining to see now is - trying to erase any posters that are not 100% for serpo - no im not 100% behind this story -(personal attacks i dont like eather) theres more holes imho here than swiss cheese - it is a typical attempt by the beleivers to erase any logical investigation. What is it? are you trying to milk the same stuff discussed several weeks ago? why? - so just to clarify - yes ive bitten with regard to the david icke accusation , ive in a round about way backpeddled on this. - whats your point now?**

Im a skeptic - yes, but if i see the evidence and its totally above board - ill join the serpo gang - until that time, ill continue to think for myself - AS ALL TRUE THINKING INDIVIDUALS SHOULD DO!

**If centrist you are indeed fishing for sympathy votes - produce some evidence, this thread is becoming another sleeper thread - ie"et is as true as the nose on ya face".... really?**

**what evidence have you seen centrist? - show me what makes you such a beleiver. - bet you dont have any evidence to backup your onesided opinion. - this is hardly research**.

I now require satisfaction centrist - explain yourself!

ps - ive stared the areas im asking you about - i want them answered, ohh please dont avoid them - your only make this story/evidence less compelling.









[edit on 19-1-2006 by Im a true sceptic]

Folks

I find myself posting out of obligation to Mr. Ryan and his tireless efforts as it relates to the Serpo project. I have been following this thread since its creation, and find the process and flow of the thread to be one of great intrigue. As others have said, I will echo...since I have nothing substantive to add (I am not a geologist, etc) I will continue to simply follow closely (and patiently) for the inevitable. What is the inevitable, you ask? Simply this...All truth eventually gets revealed...regardless of what the truth is.

I enjoy Centrist, et al's view on this...and their use of juriprudence related to this matter...so, thank you for ya'lls attempt to keep the analysis about the data...not the emotion.

We all (probably) agree, that the implications of Serpo are considerable; and require us to pause...analyze...ponder...assimilate...and question (even our own belief system). I thank you all for the time/effort that you have place into this matter (please do not mistake my silence to be anything other than respectful...).

To the mods: Thanks for helping to "keep it clean"...and for ensuring that our guest (Mr. Ryan), is treated with the respect that ANY guest deserves.

Most may not care...but the one thing that has kept me here at ATS has been the people...the quest for knowledge...and the dogged determination to "make the puzzle pieces fit".

ok...i'll sit back down now...

K

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
[
Victor, who has since responded saying he'll go through the data again and will get back to me.)

(Example: jgbjgb's question about the specific contributions of the "2% ghost". I realised I didn't know the answer to that one myself and relayed the question to Victor, who has since responded saying he'll go through the data again and will get back to me.)


I thought Victor does not have any of the emails as they are deleted from his WebTV system after 90-96 hours.

Where would the DATA from the 2% Anon person be stored. And if so that means all the DATA from ANON is stored and not deleted as we have been told....

Which means..... someone is lying

[edit on 19-1-2006 by robertfenix]

originally posted by I'm a true sceptic
**what evidence have you seen centrist? - show me what makes you such a beleiver. - bet you dont have any evidence to backup your onesided opinion. - this is hardly research**.

I will not attempt to answer for Centrist, I'm sure he's more than capable of that himself. What I would like to know however, is why you believe him to be "a believer".

I would be really interested in seeing his post where he specifically, or by implication, states he is a believer of the Serpo story.

As far as I can see by his posts, he has never stated that opinion. If anything, his approach has been a cautious one.

Originally posted by Zep Tepi

originally posted by I'm a true sceptic
**what evidence have you seen centrist? - show me what makes you such a beleiver. - bet you dont have any evidence to backup your onesided opinion. - this is hardly research**.

I will not attempt to answer for Centrist, I'm sure he's more than capable of that himself. What I would like to know however, is why you believe him to be "a believer".

I would be really interested in seeing his post where he specifically, or by implication, states he is a believer of the Serpo story.

As far as I can see by his posts, he has never stated that opinion. If anything, his approach has been a cautious one.

one at a time, centrist needs to reply to my question/s
Ill entertain your deflecting attempt after my initial request.

one other thing that has crossed my mind - is there more then one individual whos involved with this? ie these off the cuff lurkers suddenly contributuing ?? most of these new inputters to this thread are new members - ok alittle far fetched but still possible.

still waiting on you centris.
How do you know this bill ryan so well as to beleive everything he tells you??


I beleive the stictching on this garment is started to show ware..

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
So that's all fine and is part of the scientific method, which is predicated on getting and analysing data, and then forming intelligent hypotheses which (ideally) can be tested. What irritated Anon, I think – and irritated me – was when it wasn't the data that was being questioned, it was silly ad hominem attacks that questioned his/my integrity. That's what seemed like a cheap shot. You'll see, I think, that there's not a single question I'd not answered as best I could – and sometimes with considerable thought and time devoted to it – and yet some forum members were still suggesting I was a hoaxer or that I was not who I claimed to be.

This is absolutely true - I've posted two questions I deemed very important to Bill - the second establishing his credibility and his true intentions. I think he very eloquently pointed out that he is not a 100% believer, like many of us for him the jury is still out. But he is willing to put in the effort, along with the rest of us, to analyse what we do have and what we do know. Most hoaxters - IMO, tend to try to sell everything as the absolute truth. Bill, on the other hand, will admit when there is simply something he doesn't know or there isn't enough information. I find that commendable and the one thing in this thread that I do believe 100% at this point is that Bill Ryan is in this same boat with us - and I encourage those skeptical of the Serpo story NOT to attack Bill or his integrity... He is who he says he is.

That isn't to say the same about Anon though - in my mind we don't know who he is or what he is. Some have speculated an old man, and I do agree with that logic as Bill pointed out earlier. However we don't know who he is or what his intentions are - so his credibility, in my view, is still subject to healthy criticism.

Carry on,
rdube02

[edit on 19-1-2006 by rdube02]

celticniall, Hal900,

Thank You both.

As far as this line goes:

“Anon says that "1) Serpo moved around one sun only. The other sun was within the two orbits."...does this fit with your model?”

I think it’s a semantic thing… If you watch the little movie, Serpo orbits the Jupiter star (moves around only one sun) and Both orbit the primary (other sun within the two orbits)

I gave Serpo, Otto, and Silus orbital velocities that keep them within the fixed distances given on the website (88 million for Otto, 434 for Silus, and Sepos distance from each star, 96.5 and 91.4) Because of this it can look like Serpo is actually orbiting the primary…

This arrangement puts Otto only a few million miles from the primary, which is pretty crazy, but if it orbits it’s sun like Mercury orbits our sun, then a research station on the dark side might be possible.

Keplers “Law”, or course, it out the window, the ratios are insane. I’m not sure that three massive outer planets could keep the thing in balance, either… maybe. Stranger things Have happened though *laughs*

One possible arrangement (based on the numbers, not physics) is something like:

0 : Primary
8.5 million miles : Otto
96.5 million miles : Serpo
283.9 million miles : Jupiter star
337.5 million miles : Silus
??? million miles : un-named planet 1
??? million miles : un-named planet 2
??? million miles : un-named planet 3
(all distances are from primary)

I put Silus opposite Serpo for aesthetics and balance only, it could just as easily be in line with the others:

0 : Primary
8.5 million miles : Otto
96.5 million miles : Serpo
283.9 million miles : Jupiter star
503.5 million miles : Silus
??? million miles : un-named planet 1
??? million miles : un-named planet 2
??? million miles : un-named planet 3
(all distances are from primary)

However, watching this arrangement spin around really seemed off balance and would put even more load on the three other planets to keep things from flying apart… which is why I animated the first scenerio...

As far as being habitable goes, well, Serpo would be hot (which they say it is)

I opt for the 337.5 million mile range for Silus, which puts it about where the asteroids are in our system… COLD. But with some greenhouse gasses and some healthy volcanism, *shrugs* who can say? Maybe life could thrive there…

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
[
Victor deletes all the original e-mails after posting to his list (his Web TV has no simple means of archiving data), so we'll never know quite who said what, and when, beyond the posts we're left with – all of which are verbatim on the website.

Best, Bill

Bill Ryan
member

posted on 10-1-2006 at 09:32 PM Post Number: 1914209 (post id: 1936102) - printer friendly

www.abovetopsecret.com...


So where is Victor going to get the DATA from the 2% Anon Ghost to answer your question.....

[edit on 19-1-2006 by robertfenix]

Originally posted by Im a true sceptic
one at a time, centrist needs to reply to my question/s
Ill entertain your deflecting attempt after my initial request.

I think it's very clear to anyone who has followed this thread from the very beginning, from Centrists very first post, authoring the thread, that he in no way has signed up with either camp. He is in the middle, true to his name actually... Of any posters, I believe my views follow his the most closely. The jury is still out....we are waiting for more evidence.

I wouldn't want to "ignore" a poster like you, as been suggested in previous posts, because I do believe everyone has something important to offer here. No one is more valuable than another. But I've defended you previously, true skeptic, and I'm respectfully asking you now to spend your energies reading through the Serpo site for inconsistencies...search for FOIA requests if there are any...etc... We have to trust eachother here if we're going to get anywhere...

That's all,
rdube02

[edit on 19-1-2006 by rdube02]

I just wanted to add something I've found during my research into this... One thing I've been worried about is a Dan Burisch link to this Project Serpo fiasco, because his name has popped in and out of some discussion here.

Please check out this site: www.danburisch.info...

And see the Dec 7, 2005 DATELINE update. In one aspect, I'm glad that he isn't backing this story, because to be perfectly honest I'd probably be less likely to believe it if he was. But he certainly throws a bunch of information in there worth discussing/disproving. His entire theory is that it is a disinformation campaign.

Check it out, I'd like to know what you guys think...

That's all,
rdube02

Originally posted by Im a true scepticThe john tartar story had photos - that became an urban legend. -(loved the surname of this tartar guy btw)

Correction.....John Titor.

I remember ATS talking about ppl using forums as shop windows, i know ATS must have investigated the credentials of mr Bill Ryan,
look bill you can ignore me or do what you like, this is not a personal attack, plz forgive my suspicions but everything must be investigated you must agree so plz dont take my continuing investigations personally.
Deny Ignorence,

Hello, I need a good story line...

Hello Group! I am a new member and am interested in the paranormal.
Being an author, I am interested in hearing stories involving ufo's,
alternate dimensions, ghosts, shadow people and just about anything
that cannot be explained. If you have a story that you feel would make
a good plot for a book-please let me know.

william ryan, posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005

Is that you bill, plz forgive me if i'm wrong

Originally posted by Im a true sceptic

Im begining to take offence to your assertion that im the ugly duckling here.(if my investigations are indeed hurting - then so be it - the ufo community doesnt need another shag harbor event or a roswell - we want the hard facts.)

Your indignance is certainly misplaced. Making unsupported accusations that could have easily been disproven prior to posting them is irresponsible. You could have determined whether there was some reason to accuse Bill Ryan of being David Icke and posted that "evidence". Instead, you just made a wild accusation and left it for others to research for you.

**Another technique im begining to see now is - trying to erase any posters that are not 100% for serpo

You should address that to Skeptic Overlord. If you have issues with ATS policy or enforcement, it's better to go straight to the source. Although it's evident that you're not paying much attention to what Skeptic Overlord's opinion is either

-- Originally posted by Skeptic Overlord here.
I'm leaning (strongly) in the direction that these events did not happen, however, but that the "Project Serpo" documents may very well exist.

Surprisingly, S.O. hasn't been banned from the forum yet. Although I'm sure that's just an oversight on his part, perhaps you might drop a note in the suggestion box

What is it? are you trying to milk the same stuff discussed several weeks ago? why? - so just to clarify - yes ive bitten with regard to the david icke accusation , ive in a round about way backpeddled on this. - whats your point now?**

I'm not done discussing Serpo. If you think I'm "milking" the thread, that's your perogative. My posts, however, are merely a small fraction of the activity in this thread. I did start this thread, have become familiar with the facts and people involved, and am participating in the discussion. I don't understand your point. Like I've said so many times, if you have nothing to offer the discussion, don't feel obliged to participate. If you have information that disproves anything that Anon has written, feel free to post it, defend it, discuss it, and participate.

**If centrist you are indeed fishing for sympathy votes - produce some evidence, this thread is becoming another sleeper thread - ie"et is as true as the nose on ya face".... really?**

Hmm. Again, you make statements but fail to refer to what I've actually written.

**what evidence have you seen centrist? - show me what makes you such a beleiver. - bet you dont have any evidence to backup your onesided opinion. - this is hardly research**.

I hope you understand how sincerely I mean this, but have you actually read anything I've written?

-- Centrist wrote at various times...

Who knows? This could all be a fiction made up by a few college guys with some tech savvy. If not, there must be a lot left in that "manual" that we've still yet to hear about.

and

What's truly important here is that you realize that many of us, even those who come across as "believers" in the Serpo story agree that there's not a single shred of evidence that proves this story to be true. Many people, as they learn more and more about the events, have found that there are enough tantalizing constencies to continue to follow and discuss the story, while we wait for new information.

and

agree with you on both points. There's nothing that necessarily suggests that Serpo isn't true and so many strange consistencies that it's been a very fun story to follow. If it's not true? I don't think anyone will be surprised, but until the door closes (as I've said before myself)... enjoy the ride

and

Does that mean the story is true? Again, NO. There's a LONG way between proving that something isn't false and proving that it's true. A LONG way. Lets try to be clear where on the road we are

and

I'm no more or less convinced of the truth of Anon's story, but I'm keeping an open mind until we can prove something one way or another.

and

At this point, there's not much to prove or disprove the story. Just a lot of very interesting consistencies and some very weird inconsistencies

And that's just going back to page 80. I'll let you do some homework on what I said in the first 80 pages of the thread... but if you just go back to the very first post in this thread, you might find that I said..

I'm reserving judgment until I've read and fully digested everything that "anonymous" has written

So, what part of my position on this do you not understand?

I now require satisfaction centrist - explain yourself!

Sounds like a personal thing to me Or you're just trying to draw me into a flame war of some sort. I'm sorry, but I'm just not interested. If you want some drama made up by some really wild characters, there are some better places for you to go.



[edit on 19-1-2006 by Centrist]

Originally posted by iamian
I remember ATS talking about ppl using forums as shop windows, i know ATS must have investigated the credentials of mr Bill Ryan,
look bill you can ignore me or do what you like, this is not a personal attack, plz forgive my suspicions but everything must be investigated you must agree so plz dont take my continuing investigations personally.
Deny Ignorence,

Hello, I need a good story line...

Hello Group! I am a new member and am interested in the paranormal.
Being an author, I am interested in hearing stories involving ufo's,
alternate dimensions, ghosts, shadow people and just about anything
that cannot be explained. If you have a story that you feel would make
a good plot for a book-please let me know.

william ryan, posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005

Is that you bill, plz forgive me if i'm wrong

imian, i clicked the link...it seems like "william ryan" was just sharing a post from somebody else. in othewr words, i don't think "william ryan" is the originator of that post. i could be misunderstanding your question though...need more coffee.

I will be talking to Bill Ryan about Project Serpo on my show tomorrow night (Friday)

Ross

Originally posted by robertfenix

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
[
Victor, who has since responded saying he'll go through the data again and will get back to me.)

(Example: jgbjgb's question about the specific contributions of the "2% ghost". I realised I didn't know the answer to that one myself and relayed the question to Victor, who has since responded saying he'll go through the data again and will get back to me.)


I thought Victor does not have any of the emails as they are deleted from his WebTV system after 90-96 hours.

Where would the DATA from the 2% Anon person be stored. And if so that means all the DATA from ANON is stored and not deleted as we have been told....

Which means..... someone is lying

[edit on 19-1-2006 by robertfenix]

Hi, robertfenix –

Does it really mean someone is lying?

If there's something you don't understand or which seems contradictory or unclear, then please ask, and I'll do my best to clarify or explain.

When I referred to "data", I should have said "the posts on the website". I apologise for my part in the misunderstanding. But please request clarification, and don't assume that in this complicated arena people are being deceitful if there's something you don't understand.

Here's Victor's e-mail to me from earlier today, verbatim.

Best, Bill

-----------------------

BILL:

I was just wondering that last night prior to retiring. I'd have to go
back and re-read all of the posts to see if they would jog my memory,
but the 2% was an expansion of some minute details that ANONYMOUS had
provided the basis for.
To be honest with you, I'm not too thrilled about going though 13,000
words to try and find this "word needle" for this guy!