Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by Centrist


LOL... fair enough

I agree with your perspective, but when I read the two statements, I see things that don't seem to coexist properly. It's all a rather minor point in the whole analysis -- I don't think I'll draw any conclusions about this until we've heard more from the source.

I will note, however, that there's something about this site and the cross-reference between the Serpo.org and Richard Doty's book that strikes me with a bit of fear that this whole thing is a hoax to sell books. I hope it's not, but I have my suspicions.

I'm taking it with a grain of salt as well. But sometimes I think when we skeptics start debunking, we end up with as much egg on our faces at times as people who just swallow it hook, line and sinker. The "factual" requirement applies both ways.

And I think your finding on the book is something we need to keep at the top of the list of why this may be whooey. But I also find this

www.boomspeed.com...

which is a series of past interviews done by Linda Moulton Howe, extremely interesting in connection to this, and I can't help but wonder if the eventual name of Anonymous isn't lying in those interviews some where.



[edit on 12-1-2005 by Valhall]

Thank you Valhall for clearing up the discrepencies with time and Keplers law. It made perfect sense to me but articulated it so well.

I also agree that debunkers get so far ahead of themselves that they overlook what could be an honest recounting.


Also I believe the "anonymous" person is sending emails through to the webmaster who then posts them up. Anonomyous thanks the recipient multiple times for his attentiveness to keeping the him unkown.

[edit on 1-12-2005 by articulateka0s]

This is the same ol' story over and over again...hmpfh....

As previous speakers already stated..there's no chance in hell that a person with this kind of knowledge would present his stuff in this way!

The best way is to simply present footage, crisp clear pictures and some hardware..to get at least the slightest credibility!

AND do that via persons that are in no way linked to him/herself!!

A spokesperson that can bring forth the facts in many different ways!


I'm very very sceptic......

The guy lost me with:

“You will be honored one day for providing assistance in our release of information. Many thanks.

I do not feel that a dialogue or argument with non-believers would benefit our cause. They have the right to critizice our information, but none of them will ever be involved in the final process.”

The faithful will be rewarded.

The non-faithful will be punished.

Open debate with skeptics would not be beneficial…

Do I get a little cookie and a sip of grape juice with that?

I can believe in a lot of crazy stuff, Really Crazy Stuff, but this is too much for me.

Guess I won’t be involved in the “final process” *sighs*

Okay, here's a major discrepancy - I think.

First he says...

For some reason – and I don't think this was ever determined – our time instruments did not work on Serpo.

Then he says...

Regarding Time: The Team Members brought several time pieces, e.g., wrist watches, non-battery style, as it stated in the debriefing data. The time pieces worked, but they had no reference to time since the Eben days were longer, the dusk and dawn periods were longer and they had no calenders to reference.
They did use the time pieces to calculate movement, for example, timing the movement of the Eben two suns. They also calculated the time between work and rest periods. But, after awhile, the team discarded their time pieces and used the Eben's measurement of time periods. The team became confused with the calenders they brought – a 10-year calender.

So which is it? They didn't work? or they did work?

That's a big contradiction.

Under number one on this page:
www.serpo.org...

EBE-2 sat in a chair across the table from two civilians and the AF Colonel. I did not know the identity of the three. LANL-1 came into the room and sat next to me. I listened while the three asked EBE-2 a series of questions pertaining to its home planet. First question was about the temperature, climate and weather. EBE-2 responded in perfect English but sounded like a machine generated voice. Very hard to explain but it was either coming from a device that EBE-2 had in front of him or from something in its body.

One paragraph later...

The interesting part of this interview was that I didn't hear any questions being asked by the three humans sitting across from EBE-2. Either the questions were already given to EBE-2 or the three humans were "thinking the questions" and EBE-2 would respond in English.

It seems to me that these two statements conflict and certainly seems to discount this reference as a "consistancy." Also note that in the paragraph between these two is the sentence "During this society cycle each Eben worked a certain time and conducted business." The whole time he is referred to as "EBE-2" and then this slip to the term "Eben" with no reference information at all? Seems a bit doctored.

Wheres me julie?

Sounds like the southern regions of soviet Russia. Don't think so? Think about that and read it again -

Exhibit A:
"There were leaders, but no real form of government. There was virtually no crime seen by the team. They had an army, which also acted as the police force. But no guns or weapons of any type were seen by our team. There were regular meetings within each small community. There was one large community, which acted as the central point of the civilization. All the industry was at this one large community. There was no money."

A Socialist's pipe-dream, no?

Anyhow, I see a lot of role-playing game elements in this one. I think our Anonymous poster is missing out on a great money making opportunity.

Exhibit B:
"The power system was a sealed energy device that provided electrical power and lift for the craft. It was very easy to fly and our pilots learned the system within days. The Ebens did have vehicles, which floated above the ground and did not have any tires or wheels."

Oh boy! Can't wait until the Alien-Tech Compendium comes out! It's supposed to have blueprints!

Finally, if these 12 were so brilliant, why doesn't it seem like it nor do they do anything important? Was part of the tour package? "Relax and enjoy our alien world. Be sure not to work or report anything of value when you get back to earth".

I have an exclusive "photo" of what the aliens who were exchanged to stay on Earth were doing here during that time:




[edit on 1-12-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
EBE-2 responded in perfect English but sounded like a machine generated voice. Very hard to explain but it was either coming from a device that EBE-2 had in front of him or from something in its body.

This is also inconsistent with later statements that it took 5 years to teach them enough basic English to understand a short message, and 12 years after that, they arrive on Earth and the best they can do is convert language to text...

MEETING: The Eben craft landed exactly at the location we sent. There were 16 senior U.S. Government officials on the ground. Some were political and some were senior officials, including military officers. The Ebens exited their craft and walked under a pre-located canopy. The Ebens gave gifts of their technology. The Ebens had a crude translator device. It appeared to be some sort of microphone with a read-out screen.

The senior U.S. official was given one of the devices and the Eben kept the other one. The officials spoke into the device and the screen showed a printed form of the voice message, both in Eben and English. It was crude and hard to understand everything that was said.

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe


This is also inconsistent with later statements that it took 5 years to teach them enough basic English to understand a short message, and 12 years after that, they arrive on Earth and the best they can do is convert language to text...

and 13 years later when the 12 got to their planet everything was reduced to hand signals at times. Apparently the mental communication had gone away in their atmosphere. **

Originally posted by Valhall
and 13 years later when the 12 got to their planet everything was reduced to hand signals at times. Apparently the mental communication had gone away in their atmosphere. *

*

Very interesting!

Yes, that whole part is very inconsistant, despite being called a "consistancy."


"Consistancy #2"

However, it's reasonable to consider that if a story like this was invented the first thing a storyteller would get right would be the physics, as the “correct” numbers are easy to calculate. So the fact that some of the numbers differ widely from those predicted by known laws – a sitting duck for criticism – may be a validating factor, not otherwise. Why set oneself up to be dismissed immediately?

This part seems contrary to every other hoax out there (John Titor) where the physics IS wrong or different so that it CAN'T be proven. Also, most hoxers are not scientists so they can't calculate the "correct" numbers with ease.

Its hoax on so many different levels,

Roswell was two crash sites, but not more then 2 years apart, the crashes happend within days of each other. And in 1947 we had search planes and automobiles and jeeps and if the ranchers first found the wreckage it was only a matter of a few hours before the sherrif got to the second crash site.

And assuming this second crash site was discovered nearly two years after the first Roswell incident (which happend within days of each other) yet the army recovered the bodies of the EBEN??? which would have been either badly decomposed or not completely there anymore do to desert predators... seems funky

Especially considering the Strat Bombing Squadron and a whole battalion of Army engineers were stationed near by developing all kinds of snooping gear. And the crash site remained undetected for over two years ???

the Eben numbered only 650,000 but lived on a planet like the size of earth. A planet that has 1,000 times more people and yet is sparsly populated in terms of totel geography. SEPRO seems to be described as more arrid, where is the massive oceans ? Rain only falls one month out of the long year, yet the temperatures are really warm, there must be atmospheric exhange of water happening somewhere on the planet. Plus one pole is as dry as a barren desert.

The whole fact that the planet never see complete darkness sound total absurd even with a binary star system the planet must revolve around some point and since the revolution period is said to be something like 43 hours. The grounds is saying the other binary star is close enough to illuminate the other side of the planet to almost the degree of the primary star which would have to place it within its solar system, if we were looking at our system then you would need to be around Saturn or maybe Jupiter I would imagine, and this makes for a very complicated solar system whos gravitational forces of two competing stars would make any planet quite uninhabitable. The farther out from the central rotational mass the longer the rotational period so assuming in this unique binary system the second star being in Jupiter or Saturns place would take much longer to rotate around the primary star not to mention the proposed 800 something year cycle for the planet SEPRO making the equivelant year cycle of the binary star in jupiters place longer to the power of 2 or 3.... thus the planet of the EBEN would out the second star then leaving a side of the planet in darkness for a period of time much like earth resulting in much longer periods of cold on a given side (due to the long rotational period of 43 hours) and much high temperatures on the sunny side, whose temp differational would be a massive engine creating all kinds of weather on the EBEN planet.


the orbital timing and supposed lack of season seams all wrong even considering some inaccuracies in the collection method.

lots of problems with time issues about stating time mechanics did not work the same there and EBEN not keeping time, get multiple references for EBEN time and year etc (which is not a big deal, I personally feel "time" is a man made terminology and is constrained to us here on earth)

Translation, the "team" gets there then learns how to translate the EBEN language for the most part yet, for a good portion of 5 years prior to their trip the govement has been communicating with the EBEN through a device that EBE #1 showed them how to use and over time they developed a loose translation of the EBEN written alphabet tablet, close enough to correspond with landing co-ordinates and dates and times for the "visits". Yet the team finds it difficult for the EBEN to understand them at first. You would think their "scientists" would included a few EBEN that were part of the communication relay with earth to co-ordinate the vists and be prior aware of the english langugage for the most part.

The time frame from the first visit then the EBEN decide at that time that they would not take the team but on an additional visit, I think they said was 5 months later in 1964 yet even when that ship arrives the travel time back to SEPRO takes 9 months, which would mean the second ship would have had to leave already from the home planet to earth prior to the arrival of the first inteded ship to pick up the "team". These massive ships would have to have some sort of landing port on the home world I would imagine yet nothing is said of it.

They have complex industry and space travelling craft yet the live in mud huts lacking technological comforts such as modern cooking devices. Here is an advanced society that went to war with space partical beams weapons whos intensity is enough to blow up a planet yet they have no refrigeration or use any means of cooling for anything?

He talks about large singular manufacturing complex's but nothing about the support structure to get supplies Assuming they are in some cases thousands of miles away from the population center where to the workers live, do they all live in the same building, they said the team witness an EBEN birth in some large building yet, there is not specific details of the buildings interior and adding that the relative temperature is stated to be 90 to 115 degrees on average no word about how sitfling hot it was in the building with no refrigeration. Or is it simply left out that they have a form of AC just do not use refrigeration for food.


To be it seems as though someone has crafty a novella about a combination of Star Wars, Close Encounters and stories about alien abduction all rolled into one.

In the end it is a fanciful conglobulation of all sorts of ideas into a jumbled mess that just stinks of a hoax

[edit on 1-12-2005 by robertfenix]

..robertfenix!!

A planet that has 1,000 times more people and yet is sparsly populated in terms of totel geography.

Actually, we have almost a million times their population on Earth and are only just starting to look at space as a source of possible resources. Necessity is the mother of invention and I find it very hard to believe a planet with hardly enough people to fill a small city, would have any need to be tooling around the galaxy.. pffft.

To be it seems as though someone has crafty a novella about a combination of Star Wars, Close Encounters and stories about alien abduction all rolled into one.

There's no doubt that at first glance this story is unfolding in a way that simply screams hoax. Given the relationship between the likely hoaxster and the various people that are attaching themselves to this story (at least by association), there's something about it that makes it hard to dismiss so easily. In other words, we should dismiss it the hard way

You point out (as have others) a number of good examples of inconsistencies in the story. I wonder, however, if the things that seem truly inconsistent (the time, physics, etc.) are just beyond our present understanding and that we, as skeptics, have to debunk based on facts we know with certainty, not simply facts as presented by our current understanding of science and the universe.

I'm going to approach this as as a very skeptical believer. As with everything, extraordinary claims must be met with extraordinary proof to be believed. If that's the burden we expect out of "Anonymous", then we should be fair and wait until we have solid proof of a hoax, just to make sure we don't miss out on any truths that may be buried in disinformation that the alleged informant divulges.

It's very possible that our "Anonymous" was the subject of disinformation and only had first-hand knowledge of a part of a project. Thus, he may think his telling the whole truth, but that a part of his truth is false information. The degree to which that project must have been compartmentalized would have been extraordinary. No single person, except at the very highest levels of government, would have had access to such a broad view of what was going on. At that level, however, the person might not have been briefed on each operational detail (e.g., what exactly was in the supply package sent on the trip, down to the last D-Cell). Of course, at this high a level the person may not have been fed disinformation, was very likely not to be a scientist, and therefore may simply have gotten the facts wrong because he didn't understand what he was being told.

This story presents a tremendous opportunity to debunk based on circumstantial evidence and science we're not necessarily as sure of as we think. Right now, we think it's a lie. It looks like a lie, smells like a lie, and even has an obvious motivation. But if the motivation to sell books is backed by Richard Doty, why wouldn't the story be better? Certainly, people with this level of knowledge and experience in the UFO field are too smart to come up with a lame hoax. They would come up with an exceptional hoax. And if this isn't back by people in the UFO field, how would they have fooled a group of right-minded skeptical believers into publishing this stuff? There must be enough there to make this worth debunking in a very careful manner.

I've received confirmation from Bill Ryan, webmaster of the site, that there will indeed be some type of exclusive involvement with ATS in the very near future.

I'm sure this will help answer our many questions.

I'll keep everyone posted.

man this is a very intersting story and a great read. One thing that hits me its strange how advanced they are sincy they have only been around for 10,000 years, i belive that is what it says. Also if they can travel at intersteller speeds, creat a massive power source from a vacume, then how come they couldnt help that one scientist that died from disease.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
Under number one on this page:
www.serpo.org...

Okay, let's BACK AWAY FROM THE INCONSISTENCY...beep beep beep.

Yes, ZZZ, you are correct that this is a rather odd thing for the site to include as a point of "evidence" or "consistency"...but let's stay clear on something...

this is NOT an account from Anonymous. This is a secondary account that other members of the email list keep referencing in connection with what Anonymous is stating.

So this is NOT an inconsistency on Anonymous's part...it's a different thingy all together. It comes from Exempt by Disclosure by Robert Collins, which happens to be the book Centrist cited above.

I would point out, in trying to be logical about this, two things:

1. Listing a blatantly inconsistent account in a newly published book in the list of consistencies with Anonymous' account could be evidence of the book promotion.

2. Listing a blatantly inconsistent account in a newly published book in connection with Anonymous' contradictory account could be evidence of NO connection with the publication of the book.

Originally posted by robertfenix
Its hoax on so many different levels,

Roswell was two crash sites, but not more then 2 years apart, the crashes happend within days of each other. And in 1947 we had search planes and automobiles and jeeps and if the ranchers first found the wreckage it was only a matter of a few hours before the sherrif got to the second crash site.

I have been to Roswell, and the 2 crashes being in the same time frame (and therefore causing great confusion in subsequent discussions of either) is how it is reported by locals. This is a very good point of inaccuracy.

The whole fact that the planet never see complete darkness sound total absurd even with a binary star system the planet must revolve around some point and since the revolution period is said to be something like 43 hours.

Anonymous does not say that, in fact he refutes that. Poster Paul McGovern is the one that states:

There was never complete darkness on the visitors planet. It got dim but not dark.

Anonymous corrects him with:

There was a period of darkness, but not total darkness. The Eben planet is located within a solar system of the Zeta Recticular Star System [two 5th-magnitude yellow double stars, similar to our Sun located near the Large Magellanic Cloud]. The planet had two suns but their angles were small and allowed some darkness on the planet depending on one's location.

the orbital timing and supposed lack of season seams all wrong even considering some inaccuracies in the collection method.

He did not say there was a lack of seasons. He said they did not have seasons like we have here of extreme cold and heat.

Translation, the "team" gets there then learns how to translate the EBEN language for the most part yet, for a good portion of 5 years prior to their trip the govement has been communicating with the EBEN through a device that EBE #1 showed them how to use and over time they developed a loose translation of the EBEN written alphabet tablet, close enough to correspond with landing co-ordinates and dates and times for the "visits".

I believe this is wrong. Unless I'm missing something, the device to translate Eben and English into text was not supplied to Earth until April 24, 1964 - a few months before the 12 left on their journey.

The time frame from the first visit then the EBEN decide at that time that they would not take the team but on an additional visit, I think they said was 5 months later in 1964 yet even when that ship arrives the travel time back to SEPRO takes 9 months, which would mean the second ship would have had to leave already from the home planet to earth prior to the arrival of the first inteded ship to pick up the "team".

This statement is based on the assumption Earth would have been notified that the ship was already on its way. That's not necessarily a valid assumption. It could have been on its way when the April 24, 1964 meeting took place. He states that the conversation in that meeting has not been made public yet.

These massive ships would have to have some sort of landing port on the home world I would imagine yet nothing is said of it.

Did they have a landing port here? If the Zamora/Socorro sighting is the same as the ships that arrived on April 24, 1964, then apparently they need no landing port.

They have complex industry and space travelling craft yet the live in mud huts lacking technological comforts such as modern cooking devices. Here is an advanced society that went to war with space partical beams weapons whos intensity is enough to blow up a planet yet they have no refrigeration or use any means of cooling for anything?

This is anthropomorphizing of another species. I'm not sure that being technologically advanced beyond our capabilities mandates they live in something of the Jetson style. Maybe they got smart enough to figure out little was better and conservation was the future.



[edit on 12-1-2005 by Valhall]

In regareds to the 'time' inconsitancy.
What about this:

It's said they don't have a form of time or dating like we do, but they were to meet us at a certain time and date.

Well, what if they don't have a time and date system on the planet as we do BUT the 'council' group which controlls the order of the planet (and you'd assume would be the group organising interplanetary missions and diplomacy) do have a time/date system from which their planets order is run off.

The population might not have any need for a time or date system which would be why you'd say they don't have one but at the core, there MUST be a cornerstone of how that order came to be on the planet which could very well be a time/date type system that exists and is used only as a form of 'government order'. From that it's like any maths or language, you just need to find common ground with our time/date system for something to be agreed upon - but doesn't he also say that in the end they picked the location by sight?

There are parts of Earth that have groups of humans that live without a time reference (baka tribe, Various herding nomad groups up in the pole for example), they don't need one because their lives are not dictated by a 9-5 type mentality but rather by the suns movements. They also wouldn't live under any laws of government like we do but it doesn't mean there isn't one and that if the NWO decided to burn the Amazon tomorrow that the Baka tribes would have any say in it.

I think what's not clear is if the information given is a general account of everyday Eben life wrapped up in generalisations or if it a detailed account of the core and inner workings of the civilisation because even on Earth, it's possible for the two to be completely different due to necessity.

If this is a hoax, it's much better to give the person a longer leash and let them talk themselves into a corner rather than jumping on small details which may not be easy to explain or describe without wide generalisations.