Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?, page 2
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reply posted on 1-12-2005 @ 09:45 AM by Centrist
Excellent news. I have a number of questions -- in particular, what is the relationship between the website operator and "anonymous". How did this person come to be in contact with "anon" and how do they address the obvious peculiarity of the Serpo.org site appearing almost solely for the purpose of publishing anon's claims?

Also, who are the supposed members of the private email list? If there are the claim 100, or so, prominent Ufologists, then who are they and why are they not speaking or, at the very least, identifying themselves?

There is far, far too much being claimed by Anon not to have more information that could help bolster the credibility of the information. I don't expect that to happen, though.

If Anon is truly who he/she purports to be, they must have been EXTREMELY highly placed within the intelligence community. As I read through Anon's posts, it's clear that the manner in which the government compartmentalizes information is clearly at odds with a single person having such extensive knowledge of all of the details.

Another thought I have is whether Anon is remaining anonymous to avoid government repercussions (unlikely) or having his credibility evaluated by a fair and impartial jury of Ufologists (more likely). I think Bob Lazar proved that someone with a story to tell is better off going public in such a way as to protect himself from repercussions by remaining in a bright, public spotlight. Of course, Lazar may not have told the truth either, which would result in the government simply branding him "subversive" without taking further action... but....

With "anon", I suggest we encourage the same level of publicity. If he refuses, then I would write him off as a hoax without some sort of hard evidence (at this point, I would probably do so anyway... but I'd like to give him a chance).

Most importantly, the community of hard-working Ufologists needs to protect itself from damage this person may cause, especially if they are simply taking an old story, putting a new twist on it, and making false claims. There may be something to the Serpo project... but if some prankster drags this into the realm of pure fiction, we may never get to the actual truth.


reply posted on 1-12-2005 @ 10:13 AM by Centrist
I was thinking about the Kennedy connection when I read this... thanks for bringing that up. It's going to be interesting to do some digging to compare presidential activities (JFK and LBJ) on the critical dates mentioned by Anon.

Also, as an FYI... I saw that Anon has made a 30 November posting.. What's also interesting is that the site makes space for 13 postings on their menu bar. Could this be foreshadowing that #13 (the next one) will be the last? Perhaps with a big "haha... gotcha"? If that's true, then the joke's on them -- nobody appears to be buying into this guy to any great degree.


reply posted on 1-12-2005 @ 12:48 PM by kenshiro2012
Actually, it depends on what bacteria caused the pneumonia.
Example Staphylococcus aureus
Can be transfered to the human host from tainted food.
vm.cfsan.fda.gov...

Also there are many viruses (another cause of pnemonia) as well as bacteria that can lie in a dormant stage for years and in some cases centuries. One of the other "team members" could have acted like a typhoon mary and the exchangee that died could have caught it from the other.
I still think this person's story stinks to high heaven though and is based off of the 1991 by bill Moore


reply posted on 1-12-2005 @ 01:07 PM by Valhall
Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Smells like hoax.

The writing style, grammar, and choice of words do not read like that of someone who would have been an adult at the time these events occurred.

Not to mention, the laughable claim that physics would be different in another solar system really hurts the overall credibility.


Maybe you're laughing too quickly.

Let's review what he said:



Our scientists had the same questions, as posed by your audience. Our scientists questioned our team members and the information they gathered. Our scientists could not understand how the orbit of Serpo could revolve around the two suns at the distance measured.

One of the questions sent me involved Kepler's Law of Planetary Motion. Our team had that information. We had some of the best military scientists on the team. But if you consider Kepler's Law, it requires time and our team could only measure time in the conventional way. It was determined that Kepler's Laws did not apply to that solar system.

CONCLUSION: One of the things our Earth-based scientists learned was not to apply Earth's laws of physics in a universal way.


Let's not forget this is a two-star solar system:



Diameter: 7,218 miles
Mass: 5.06 x 1024
Distance from Sun #1: 96.5 million miles
Sun #2: 91.4 million miles
Moons: 2
Surface gravity: 9.60m/s2
Rotation Periods: 43 hours
Orbit: 865 days
Tilt: 43 degrees
Temperature: Min: 43° / Max: 126°
Distance from Earth: 38.43 light years
Planet named by Team: SERPO
Nearest planet to SERPO: Named: OTTO
Distance:
88 million miles (colonized by Ebens with research base, but no natural inhabitants on planet)
Number of planets in Eben Solar System: Six
Nearest inhabited planet to SERPO:

Named: SILUS (SILUS is made up of creatures of various types, but no intelligent life forms. Ebens use the planet to mine minerals.)
Distance: 434 million miles



And he points out that (if the claim Sagan was involved is true), Carl Sagan stated:



After reading Dr. Sagan's remarks on the Serpo project, which is about 60 jam-packed pages of calculations, I found one paragraph which states that in order to use Kepler's law – in the case of Planet Serpo – one had to vary the exact gravitational pull placed on Serpo by the two suns. Serpo did not have large planets, like Jupiter and Saturn to affect the gravitational pull as the Earth does. Serpo's gravitational pull was different than anything Dr. Sagan had ever seen before.

There are numerous figures and calculations to support this. I will forward them at a later date. Have your list stay tuned.



And further comments made to support this...



In response to the intensive ongoing debate recorded in the Comments section of this site, I would like to endorse this clarification from a prominent physicist on the list:

The senior theory (essentially proven) is Newton's inverse square law for gravity. For a simple system, Kepler's Laws are a fallout of what a planetary solution looks like (for the simple case of a single planet circling a massive sun). For a complex situation (like a planet interacting with two suns, several planets, or whatever) you have to go back to Newton's law and solve a many-body problem which takes a computer. In this case Kepler's Laws are only an approximation, since they hold only for the simplest case.


I might point out that this is absolutely correct...

encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...

Kepler's laws of planetary motion may be derived from these laws[Newton's law of universal gravitation and Newton's laws of motion], when it is assumed that the orbiting body is subject only to the gravitational force of the central attractor.


It won't work in a two-star solar system.

I don't think you should take his words as stating "physics don't apply" there. He stated they learned not to universally apply a physical model every where.

That's different.


[edit on 12-1-2005 by Valhall]


reply posted on 1-12-2005 @ 01:32 PM by Thain Esh Kelch
Originally posted by Valhall
Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
I find it interesting that one of the persons on the 12 man team died of pneumonia, which is basically impossible on another planet, since its caused by bacteria.
Anything found on that planet is 99.999% sure to not being able to be a human pathogen.

Why is it impossible?
he states
Moving to the Equatorial region, our team found desert-style landscapes which contained patches of vegetation. The team found numerous pockets of water fed to the ground by Artesian Wells. This water was the freshest, containing only the unknown chemicals. It tasted good and the Ebens drank and used it. Our team still boiled it because during culture tests, unknown types of bacteria were detected.

Unless they have the same ancestor, which I really dont expect, these cells arent bacteria. They can be anything else, but the chance that they produce anything that could harm our body, or do so before being destroyed by our own stomach-flora, is quite small.

The reason they call it bacteria, is probably because they could see small cells, but they didnt have any high-tech equipment like an electron-microscope.
Notice that they didnt have any biologist with them, which could explain why they just call them bacteria like any other person.


Of notice btw, I only meant microbial pathogens, not 'naturally' occuring chemicals.
Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Actually, it depends on what bacteria caused the pneumonia.
Example Staphylococcus aureus
Can be transfered to the human host from tainted food.
vm.cfsan.fda.gov...

Also there are many viruses (another cause of pnemonia) as well as bacteria that can lie in a dormant stage for years and in some cases centuries. One of the other "team members" could have acted like a typhoon mary and the exchangee that died could have caught it from the other.

Yes, some bacteria can lie dormant for literally an eternity. Virus can not in most cases, but thats a whole other story.
Anyway, 2 things counts against the pneumonia story:
1. To get an bacterial infection, you need lots of cells in your body, depending on microbial species. You dont have an 'infectious bombs' lying around in equipment, especially not when it has probably been sterilised before departure.
2. This team is the best of the best, so they have also been in physical perfect shape, and you dont just die of pneumonia. Young children and older person do, but thats because their immuno system isnt up to the task. They might have been weakened by the environment as the text also notices, but I still dont believe that this could have been the cause.


reply posted on 1-12-2005 @ 01:38 PM by Valhall
Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
Unless they have the same ancestor, which I really dont expect, these cells arent bacteria. They can be anything else, but the chance that they produce anything that could harm our body, or do so before being destroyed by our own stomach-flora, is quite small.

The reason they call it bacteria, is probably because they could see small cells, but they didnt have any high-tech equipment like an electron-microscope.
Notice that they didnt have any biologist with them, which could explain why they just call them bacteria like any other person.


Of notice btw, I only meant microbial pathogens, not 'naturally' occuring chemicals.
Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Actually, it depends on what bacteria caused the pneumonia.
Example Staphylococcus aureus
Can be transfered to the human host from tainted food.
vm.cfsan.fda.gov...

Also there are many viruses (another cause of pnemonia) as well as bacteria that can lie in a dormant stage for years and in some cases centuries. One of the other "team members" could have acted like a typhoon mary and the exchangee that died could have caught it from the other.

Yes, some bacteria can lie dormant for literally an eternity. Virus can not in most cases, but thats a whole other story.
Anyway, 2 things counts against the pneumonia story:
1. To get an bacterial infection, you need lots of cells in your body, depending on microbial species. You dont have an 'infectious bombs' lying around in equipment, especially not when it has probably been sterilised before departure.
2. This team is the best of the best, so they have also been in physical perfect shape, and you dont just die of pneumonia. Young children and older person do, but thats because their immuno system isnt up to the task. They might have been weakened by the environment as the text also notices, but I still dont believe that this could have been the cause.


Right - you just killed your own argument. The same scientists who might have (according to you) mis-identified a microbial species from a bacteria may also have misdiagnosed pneumonia. For all we know the guy died of a respiratory virus...or extreme allergies to Eben-fungus.
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