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Stage is set for Christians to be discredited and persecuted

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posted on Dec, 18 2005 @ 06:41 PM
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It's funny how every time anyone posts an explaination of why true Christianity is NOT what so many hate, a judgemental cause if violence, someone throws in an angry, "Shut up" post, ignoring the points raised.

Mrwumpy, maybe it's your 'attitude', and not your 'faith', that makes Christians turn away from you. Your angry, judgmental, closed opinioned, you're all wrong, 'declaration', posted above, is hurtfull and insulting to the many in the world who do suffer real persecutions and pretty unpleasant to be around.

By all means, gently correct those in your life who need it but always show compassion for those who have suffered things you are lucky not to have an understanding of.




posted on Dec, 18 2005 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by suzy ryan
Mrwumpy, maybe it's your 'attitude', and not your 'faith', that makes Christians turn away from you. Your angry, judgmental, closed opinioned, you're all wrong, 'declaration', posted above, is hurtfull and insulting to the many in the world who do suffer real persecutions and pretty unpleasant to be around.


Oh good lord. Thru-out my life people have honestly nicknamed me sunshine because of my attiude. I LOVE being alive and spreading the word of how blessed we are and that life is truely a gift.

Right up to the moment I tell someone i'm not a christian, then i suddenly become a monster in their eyes.

If you want to walk around feeling persecuted and talking about how terrible life is becoming for you because of your beliefs, go right ahead. Just don't expect sympathy from me.

To say that life is terrible or your downtrodden is to spit in the face of the creator that granted you that life. It's to spit in the face of your own parents who brought you into this world.

Life is a gift. The best way to say thank you for a gift is to enjoy it. I do.

I feel sorry for those who consider such a wonderful gift to be a burden. I feel sorry for you.

Love and light my friends,

Wupy



posted on Dec, 18 2005 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by suzy ryan
By all means, gently correct those in your life who need it but always show compassion for those who have suffered things you are lucky not to have an understanding of.


Like this?


Originally posted by suzy ryan
ATS is 'chock full' of these 'educated', 'enlightened', New Age 'type', enemies of the truth.


I'm still chuckling at your scolding of mrwupy. He's one of the most loving, honest, compassionate people on this board and his attitude is one of love and light. How you got what you did from his first post speaks more of what's in your heart than what's in his.


If Christians don't want to be discredited and persecuted, I think they should stop acting in such a way that invites that. There are Christian members of this board that I highly respect because they practice what they preach, but those are, unfortunately, few and far between.



posted on Dec, 18 2005 @ 09:06 PM
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Yeah, it's all true I guess. They want to go after christinans or anyone who will eventually go against the NWO by having some of the principals the founding citzens of the USA gave to us. All for some stupid aliens and "the power" they might get. I just think aliens, whatever wants to screw us over and make us Disney World.



posted on Dec, 18 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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*SNIP*

Writing the words, love and light, after denying compassion to everyone reguardless, and acting cheery, proves you can "act" without a sence of guilt, but does little to testify to a good heart.

Now, being moved to tears, through "empathy"(any of you familier with that very human emotion?) with the unjustifiable suffering of others, might get a better reception from even the most sinfull of Christians.

Ah but who am I to have an oppinion, go ahead and keep berating me with your perfect love and light.

Mod Edit: Civility & Decorum.

Mod Note: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 18/12/2005 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Dec, 18 2005 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by suzy ryan
Ah but who am I to have an oppinion, go ahead and keep berating me with your perfect love and light.


I suppose its better to be berated with love and light then with the darkness of the path you seem to worship. You look at the world as a cruel and ugly place, rather then the gift it is. It is your right to drown in the darkness if that is your choice. All I have to say is you do have a choice.

Suffer my wrath of beratement as I tell you of the wonderfull gift that is your life. Hang upon your cross of suffering as I give thanks for my own blessed life and yours as well.

Tell the creator of all things that you wish you had never been born.

I respect your right to suffer in the face of all that has been granted upon you.

Even though I find it to be immature and really dis-respectul for the gift that is yor life.

You need to see a shrink. I'm serious.



Love and light,

Wupy



posted on Dec, 18 2005 @ 09:28 PM
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Suzy, you got edited for goodness sakes, and I mentioned principals, I can't say anything for anyone else.



posted on Dec, 19 2005 @ 04:55 AM
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empathy- oh, is that the emotion I feel everytime I hear of another son or daughter killed in our wars, while images of mom or dad getting the news flash in my mind.

ever hear of the name it and claim it christian crowd...it was starting to get big in the 80's just before I left the church. one guy I know well, he decided he deserved a nice ritzy apartment, well beyond his financial means, and well after a little prayer, naming his desire to God, he claimed it by signing the lease.....sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes it does...
but doesn't the bible say something to the effect that if two or more are gathered together, confess what you will, and it will be granted.

say something enough times, and it may become a reality. so, have the church lost it's way that much in the past 20 years, that they are now ignorantly confessing to being persecuted (in a country that is "a majority" of christians....or are they hoping that they can create a reality?



posted on Dec, 19 2005 @ 05:31 AM
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Oh pretty, pretty please mod., could you u2u me with what I wrote that was soooo uncivil that it was worse than publicly "telling" someone, "You need to see a shrink. I'm serious."?
What's so loving, light and civil about that statement?

I'm pretty sure I only rearranged the same words, to restate more clearly, the same opinion that made mrwupy so "dark" with me but I didn't have a chance to review it before I had to go so if it was uncalled for or unjustifiable I would, as I do when I find I was wrong, apologize.

Anyway, you can "preach" (a right you deny Christians) all the New Age propaganda at me you like, I will always maintain what I learned first hand, The New Age Movement is dark and dangerous at it's core and HATES the Christian Message getting out there. Would that be why you guys highjacked the thread into personal insults?

I'm suspicious of folk who use "catch" words because it's the opposite to Biblical Scripture, that sets you "free". I'm glad I'm free to understand, " 'Love' can't exist without compassion and justice", and that, "too much 'unfiltered' 'Light' will make you burn and go blind".

Christ Himself, was moved to tears for the suffering of others, so then, in mrwupy's eyes, He seriously should have seen a shrink.

Now mrwupy, should I ever loose my compassion, empathy and sence of justice, I promise I will rush off to see a shrink.

As I've been spared that great loss, I will continue to warn people about doctrines preaching that the desire for mercifull justice and ablity to feel empathetic compassion are a "dark" sickness.

Back on page 6 of this thread, I posted my understanding of The Christian Message. How about you go back and review it before you choose to stay in the error of telling all I'm "sick", "dark" and "ungreatfull".

For anyone who may have been sucked in by your attempt to 'discredit' me and 'persecute' me for my Faith, I was never talking about "self-pity", but I do pity any who are unwilling or unable to pity "others" who suffer sencelessly, needlessly and unjustifiably.



posted on Dec, 19 2005 @ 03:17 PM
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I suppose its better to be berated with love and light then with the darkness of the path you seem to worship. You look at the world as a cruel and ugly place, rather then the gift it is. It is your right to drown in the darkness if that is your choice. All I have to say is you do have a choice.


You seem to prove Suzy's point with this statement Wumpy. I see nowhere that Suzy looks at the world as a "cruel and ugly place".

However, you are pointing the finger for Suzy not quite having the same spiritual beliefs you do. She also is a realist is a "real" world. Many don't want to hear the truth. They call themselves full of light. Yet berate when they lack understanding of another's heart.

Lack of understanding is one thing. Condemning for such is quite another.

Take it from a man who has physically ached for many years yet still judges no one. The inner strength given by GOD can be found in no book, and dunked under by no water.



posted on Dec, 19 2005 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by suzy ryan
It's funny how every time anyone posts an explaination of why true Christianity is NOT what so many hate, a judgemental cause if violence, someone throws in an angry, "Shut up" post, ignoring the points raised.

Mrwumpy, maybe it's your 'attitude', and not your 'faith', that makes Christians turn away from you. Your angry, judgmental, closed opinioned, you're all wrong, 'declaration', posted above, is hurtfull and insulting to the many in the world who do suffer real persecutions and pretty unpleasant to be around.

By all means, gently correct those in your life who need it but always show compassion for those who have suffered things you are lucky not to have an understanding of.



have you ever experienced religious persecution suzy?

do you know what its like to have you religious beliefs belittled in front of dozens, if not hundreds of people?

do you have any idea what it feels like to have public figures saying that you'll burn in hell for your religious beliefs, unless you convert?

do you have any idea at all?!



posted on Dec, 19 2005 @ 10:01 PM
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Funny you should ask that, have I ever suffered religious persecution, because I have from childhood and it was cruel and traumatic and endures(the persecution, I'm very happy) to this day.

Long story but to make it short, the crippled child of a divorced Catholic mother of a large, extended, Catholic Church building family. The stage is set for them to believe I'm a cursed child of the devil.

Youngest, by far, of a bunch of cousins who go to a Christian Revival tent for free entertainment. Despite having the least respect or authority of all, the grandmother tracks us down, drags us all out loudly, and places ALL the blame on me, a 6 y.o. cripple, as being the child of the devil trying to cost them their souls.

From then on when she did consent to help look after me, she was a danger to my life, and the rest of the "church" obsessed of the family followed her lead. It seems I was always Christian but didn't know it 'till much later in my life. Things like asking why we prayed to Mary and not Jesus would bring the rath of the matriarch down on me time and time again.

The group 'communion' photo has me with the only ungloved hands, a permanent reminder this child was not a virgin and I was blamed for seducing the baby rapist because I was 'the child of the devil'. That is an extreemly cruel persecution of a child who dared to put Jesus above Mary.

These are just some of the reasons why by age 8, I decided to search out "the truth of God" and it lead me down many dark and dangerous paths but I survived and learned from them all, with the Grace of God and that measure of His Holy Spirit that at six, gave me the answer to the debate of whether it was a sin to kill to save your child.....
Why are we talking about it when it isn't happening? If it is happening we should trust God to let us know what to do then. Anything could happen before we have to decide. They could could die from something else before they kill. We shouldn't worry about what isn't happening....
This was a 6 y.o. saying, "sufficient are the evils of the day", something I never heared in our foreign, latin church or from my foreign speaking family (I grew up speaking English in hospital) but rejoiced at reading after I bought my first english Bible before I was married. It was the beginning of my deaper study of the book I was taught to hate, and now love.

No doubt many of you will say, "Well that explains it. Traumatized into fearing God." which is far from the truth. This is just the answer to that question.

It's because I learned from very early on, the many subtle forms of persecution, that I recognize what's going on in the world today, it starts with devaluing and belittling before it gets deadly.



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 06:47 AM
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christians have always been persectued and I agree it will get worse and places that don't experience it will begin too. Like the U.S.

This persecution will go to the extreme eventually.

Rev. 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev. 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

John 16:1
These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

16:2
They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

16:3
And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

16:4
But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.

Rev 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 09:23 AM
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laying in bed for a week, trying to come up with $2,000 dollar downpayment for the operation you need to be able to walk again all the while having the government take money out of your husband's paycheck to help pay for the medical needs of the "less fortunate", being able to sit down with pen and paper and prove that that paycheck wouldn't cover those necessary items like rent, heat, ect...that they gov't is using your money to pay for those thing for the "less fortunate" along with the insurance and out of pocket expensed involved in medical care......thus, proving your need for medical care....this isn't persecution!

being told by society that the career you have chosen isn't worth the cost of keeping you alive.....but by all means, continue to do this job for us, or we'll be forced to compromise national security and bring in a few more thousand possible terrorists....this isn't persecution.....

na.....telling half the country that their contribution to society is worthless so go ahead and starve for all we care, but don't take our money....that isn't persecution....

but, well, taking christ out of christmas, out of schools, out of public buildings....now...THAT'S PERSECUTION!!!

why not take christ out of these things...he's been out of this country for a long time now! christian charity has been converted into a nice little scheme to fill the pockets of a select few!!

I've been sitting here watching the prices of houses that have been sold on the market skyrocket and waiting for the other shoe to drop. the speculators have made a ton of money!!! not, well, guess it has happened, low income rental units will start to rise in cost....more money needed for rent for those who don't have enough to pay for the necessities now, meaning more money will have to be thrown into hud, or many of your precious workers, ya know, the ones who serve you that dinner at your favorite resturant, cash you out at your favorite grocery store, ect,,,,,well, they will be homeless, or they will be finding a way to come up with the money they need, be it through raises (more cost to you!!), or new better paying jobs, if they can find them.....now who's gonna run that cash register....or crime....have you gated your windows yet? more than likely, huds will come up with more money, to at least serve enough people to get the economy going, those in need, like I was when I broke my ankle, who they chose not to serve, well, we can go without.....and that speculator that raked in the profits by overinflating the cost of the housing will begin to gribe about his higher taxes!!!

but, well, we have bigger problems!!! christmas trees!!



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 10:15 AM
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Yes Dawnstar, the world suffers the, "money before justice" disease. Power, pride, selfishness, and their countless cousins, have successfully convinced a great deal of the unjustly suffering in the world, that all their problems are all their own fault.

Politely ask for a little justice to be sent where it's long not been seen, and you're accussed of being ungreatfull for not having yet died from your suffering. Ask it for others and you're berated for not enjoying what you're lucky to have, unless you're of the elite and ask the powerless of the world to 'fix it', then you become a "Person of the Year".

So why do you choose the Christians to get upset with? Why not the Bono's, Oprah's and their media sugardaddy, who keep telling us it's all the Christian's fault, while they line their pockets with the starving's food?

Lets all get "spiritual", like the actors we worship tell us, and deny The Source of that Spirit. That's made everything so much better in this last generation, well, better for those who take what's not theirs, because they want, can but not need. Now they can do it with pride and not guilt, because it's all the Christians fault.

When the world starts demanding, "Someone's gotta pay!" it's the Christian's hide they'll take it out of.



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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christians have always been persectued and I agree it will get worse and places that don't experience it will begin too. Like the U.S.


Often it is the Christians themselves that persecute themselves, and then try to pass the buck on to another entitiy. The present "Christmas", "holiday", or whatever this time of year is a prime example.

I sincerely believe most hurt their cause with the "Poor Christian Me" syndrome.

A prime example is all the whining about this time of year, and then many churches call off services on Christmas Day? This is a complete oxymoron.



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 04:10 PM
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"When the world starts demanding, "Someone's gotta pay!" it's the Christian's hide they'll take it out of. "


"Someone's gotta pay!??? when will that be? after the next prearranged terrorist attack? and who's hide will they take it out of??? your sure it won't be all these nice foreign "visitors" that I swear I think have been streaming into the country twice as fast as they were before Bush took office who will be be getting the backlash? then, our nice cheap labor can become slave labor, within detention camps, alone with all those who are relying on social services now, not to mention the many thousands of americans that have been racking up more debt than they could ever pay off just to make ends meet.

of course, the rest of the world will eventually be screaming for us to pay, but do you really think it will be just the christians that get the hostility there?

it won't, it will be the entire nation, for decades if not centuries to come.


just like Islam seems to be lumped into one group and blamed for the mess their fanatics have caused....so do the christians......but, it also seems that both groups have the tendency to just keep quiet and let their fanatics run wild and do not much of anything to separate themselves from them......that is of course, until they start paying the price for their collegues stupidity!!

but now on to the more important topics of hour!!!
holiday trees!!!
prayer in schools!!!
and of course the ever present....."this is a christian nation, it should be following the biblical way of life!!" "Let's make it into our laws!!!"



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 04:36 PM
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Christians are going to be persecuted and people will try to force them into adhering to the Beast's religious system (a mishmash of feel good Ecumenical garbage and New age rubbish). We will never receive the mark- be it a chip, 6 day week,or some other lunacy. The joy of being mistreated for Christ my friends is the best thing you can give me this Christmas. Oh, by the way ban Christmas so that Christians can finally seperate themselves from the materialistic pagan sham which this festivity is and return to primitive church purity. We will never bend the knee- Christ is greater than some set of phony baloney political correctness hatred ideology.



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 05:07 PM
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Dawnstar, you are well making the the point of the premise of this thread.

You are, of course, aware that America have sold their extreemly harmfull policies to the whole world, while 'vainly' calling themselves a "Christian Nation".

They support their push to force "democracy" on other nations, as being a "Christian" system, of being "tolerant" of, and "just" for all, while they hatefully bicker among themselves about what it is, to be Christian.

Other, non-Christian nations don't 'tolerate' being 'taken over' by peoples of another faith yet nations who 'vainly' call themselves Christian have greatly hurt both their 'religious' and secular citizens by forcing 'tolerance' of an intolerable situation on them, promoting it as 'the Christian thing to do'.

Again, you got angry 'about' things that are not Christian, yet the anger was 'at' Christianity.

I would suggest this is just one more, of many examples, of Chritianity being "discredited".



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 05:39 PM
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lol!!!

I'm sitting in a cold house, while the landlord has been making excuse after excuse for the past week as to why the heat ain't fixed......you should have seen the anger he got when I got home tonight.

if you are saying that the real christians, aren't the ones whining about how their rights are being taking away because a few decide to call a christmas tree by another term, I might tend to agree with you. it does seem that the label "christian" has been hijacked and is being used in the political arena quite a bit. but, since the real christians are gonna be good little christians and well, not really speak up for themselves. well, the darker forces will be allowed to take on the name and well........christians (and muslims, and jews).....or at least those that are using the label to justify their deeds.....will persecute all who stand against them....which of course, will sooner or later include any true believers of any religion who chose to open their mouths! what? you really think that I believe it was the christians that burned witches alive.....well, maybe there were a few being misled....but I bet there were just a few christians that were burned also, simply because they dared point out the error of others ways. christians killed the jews during the halocaust??? again, there may have been a few....but there were many who died with the jews as they were harboring them in their attics, or whereever. the antichrist will rise up within the churches! the two examples I have given here are perfect examples of his spirit! it's rising again, in christianity, and within Islam, as well as the Jewish faith. It's gotten stronger and well, the religious establishments should be the first defense against it! as far as the "christian nations" running over all the lesser powered countries of the world...well, I've pointed out quite a few times that this is why the religion should be separate from the government! all it will do will make a mockery of the religion.....AGAIN!

but, those who are griping about christmas trees, working so hard to get their religion in the schools, ect. ect....well, I am willing to bet, they will not be the ones who are ever gonna be persecuted against. more than likelly they will be the ones telling us that well, sorry, you weren't babtized right, or your beliefs just are up to par and you should change them to meet our standards....or else! the new agers, the pagans the non-believers have nothing to do with it!

our country is going to hell in a handbasket and time is being spent in our congress trying to preserve "christian values"......that's what I am irked about! I kind of always figured that if God found value in those values, he had the means of preserving them without our government's permission and regardless of any obstacles it could throw in his way!




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