Originally posted by Nakash
Hey guys- Hell (Gahenna/the abyss) is a Biblical doctrine. There's no debate on that question. Satan is also a servant of God, though he best performs his job being an unwilling one (Ever heard the phrase "God works in mysterious ways"?). Example of Satan's "Good" work:

-Punishing Job so he could give us a lesson on not abandoning the faith foolishly and charging God (like many people here do).

-Creating dissent against the Israeli state in ancient times within Babylon,Tyre, and other neighboring areas so our spiritual ancestors would not forsake the law and the prophets to foreign Gods (by creating two blocs of people- those for and against Adonai, much like today's pc "Xtians" and those who do not fear keeping Jesus's Christs words to the last tittle even if it makes them unpopular)

-Having our Lord crucified so we could have atoned souls (yes- nothing like using your foe to do an important task unwittingly. God's poetic justice no ?)

doctrine is debateable. it was doctrine for centuries that mary magdalen was a prostitute, but we found that it was due to mistranslation/misinterpretation/so many people named mary in the bible.

also if it was DOGMA (the undebateable with a religion) i'd still be able to debate it because it is simply part of YOUR religion and not mine.

just because your religion thinks its right doesn't mean i can't debate it.

Originally posted by babiixxpimpette
It definetly will not be bush, because the anti-christ is the ony one coming to kill us all. Well that is if you will die for your religion and will not accept the mark of the beast. Here are the signs of the anti-christ i was reading in the bible, then if you see this man you know its our tribulaton period

He will rule most of the worl and be head of the united nations
he will make one currency for the whole world
he will try to make an organization to stop world hunger but everyone will know it will fail
He will be super rich, billionaire rich, moved into a country he doesnt belong to
Its not bush because bush is not rich enoug and doesnt have enough time to fulfill these prophecies to be the anti-christ

THERE WILL BE NO TRIBULATION!!!!!!

the tribulation was symbolic for the early christian church's suffering under the roman empire. the author of revelation wanted to convey a message of hope, a message saying that the christians of the time were going through what would be the worst discrimination they would suffer.

the symbolism is apparent

the antichrist is merely a symbol of the roman emperor. someone who speaks of doing good work, rules over all tribes and all nation and all languages, and is considered by many to be a living god (or at least proclaims it themselves.) this is the very image of the roman emperor.

to early christians it would seem that the roman empire encompassed the whole world, and was unstoppable. it stood for most of what christianity was against. it seemed unstoppable, undefeatable. the message in revelations was that this unstoppable empire will crumble, and the oppression would end.

Originally posted by Fromabove
I think that when a new world religion finally happens, all the faithful Christians of the world will have to decide to belong to it or not. Those who do not will be seen as trouble makers and intolerant. The New World Order will accept this new religion as a tool for the puposes of uniting all nations. To bring it to fulfillment a sweet talking nice looking intelligent figure will seduce both into accepting his rule as the salvation of the world. Then shall the end come, and the persecution.

Fromabove

see above, fromabove.

haha, i rhymed.

[edit on 12-1-2006 by madnessinmysoul]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

the antichrist is merely a symbol of the roman emperor. someone who speaks of doing good work, rules over all tribes and all nation and all languages, and is considered by many to be a living god (or at least proclaims it themselves.) this is the very image of the roman emperor.

to early christians it would seem that the roman empire encompassed the whole world, and was unstoppable. it stood for most of what christianity was against. it seemed unstoppable, undefeatable. the message in revelations was that this unstoppable empire will crumble, and the oppression would end

[edit on 12-1-2006 by madnessinmysoul]

This claim, of past (already happened) tense, is one of the deception that steers people from understanding and giving weight to The Bible.

It is not a book written in, for and about the Middle East, during one short period of history, but about THE WHOLE WORLD in ALL TIME.

Line apon line, precept upon precept, command upon command, from the 'beginning' to the 'end'.
No family, race or position of mans 'trainning', is excluded, but written for the 'faithfull' 'heart and mind' to find.

Infact when you come out of that middle eastern mindset and remember that genesis starts with the super-continant (before it split into the current continants) and that there are a number of mentions of, The Book and "knowledge", being lost and found on a number of occations, it's near impossible to read as a middle eastern, one time line, story again.

The Bible is full of 'shadows' of events and meanings, for anyone, at anytime, to pick up and find true and relevant answers, 'others' would rather be concealed.

the bible isn't written for all times and all places. the hebrew scriptures weren't even recorded from the beginning, the first written scripture is from the babylonian invasion and captivity. much was lost or distorted through oral tradition. the bible didn't exist at the beginning of civilization, hell, the books aren't even put in the order they were written. the bible isn't a literal document, it's a spiritual one.

making the bible symbolic takes nothing away from its spiritual weight, in fact, it makes it much heavier. its a great book on morality (though not my cup of tea with all the doctrine and dogma) but don't look at it as the absolute perfect book. its a book written by the hands of imperfect beings, no matter who the source is, it's going to be flawed.