How to control People

I am not against capitalism. I know that historically capitalism has produced the greates plenty this world has ever seen or ever will see.

I am however against this type of merchandizing and seduction twords products so as to steal and control the thinking of a whole generation of peoples. It is a seduction. I dont hold much hope for most people however.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Ahh, Capitalism, I'm not against it but I do wish more people, blessed with wealth, understood God's call to be "good stewards". It seems the days are gone when the wealthy felt a responsabilty to their neigbours, understanding that without the workers and 'consumers' they would have no wealth.

I grew up in an area where though few were 'stinking rich', everyone had a local shopping strip, school, doctor, dentist, free baby clinic, policestation, sports grounds, basicly all the 'needs' of a good and healthy life and sound companies that "produced" and supplied "needs", to employ them.

Of course you also had your local criminal types but the local masonic network kept an eye over "their" neighbourhood as a "duty". How well your patch ran and did, reflected on your charactor as a "good steward".

People were happy to do a fair days work for a fair days pay and regular, secure employment was accepted as the wise choise over speculating and risking the gutter trying to reach the penthouse. Still those better off than their neigbours didn't flaunt it and stir up ill will but quietly kicked some into their neighbourhoods needs and invested it their families future.

The wealthy didn't need to fence and wall themselves in for protection as the locals, who knew where the support for their good standard of living came from, could be trusted to be their defenders rather than enemies. People understood that living under a "good steward" was a benifit for the whole and the individual.

But now, this sort of talk is laughed off as a backward facing dream for days long dead and gone. Why? We have successfully been 'sold' the lie that all men being equal, means, all men have the right to everything they desire, while being 'sold' countless, endless things and positions to desire. The "good steward" has become the competitor to destroy in order to aquire your personal desire.

Sure, throughout history, mankind has suffered meglomaniacs who have built enormous wealth that has only benifited the few, and then collapsed, but the peacefull, happy and healthy nations and neighbourhoods have always been those living under God's laws, "good stewardship", where having "enough" was something for the people to be proud of.

Now we live in an age where, globaly, you're seen and treated as an enemy to your neighbour if you don't "feed the economy" (the means of gaining wealth without actually producing anything of social value) with endless aquisitions of the needless and unbenificial. We're praised and admired for getting the latest "want" even when it's costs us our future "need".

God told us that the poor will always be with us but also told those who have been blessed with more, to be good stewards with their blessing and relieve the poor. I've seen this system work and I miss it.

I'm not such a fool however, to seek or expect a return to it in this current system of the world but am saddend that we've been sold the lie that man tried God's way and it didn't work, because history (a sound study of which has all but been removed from our schools) has showed us that it does work untill, bit by bit, God's laws are abandoned, from the poor not being content with enough, to the rich praising themselves for their success and withholding from the poor they have a duty to.

I believe in the coming Kingdom of God and am sad for those who will be heart rent when they see they have forfeited their positions, in that first 1000 years, of teachers, leaders and stewards, because they shirked their duty in this life. Sure some today do believe that they do their duty, by feeding the charity industry, but it is an international "industry" that in order to grow must create more demand....I'll stop here, before I go into my rant against this "evil appearing as light".

We live in an age when man has been manipulated into believing that filling the cesspool is the best way of filling the wealthpool despite the obvious fact that only a comparative few have clean water while the majority are drowning in sh*#. Only a great deal of control, from endless sources, could have brought mankind to accept this ugly, unkind, unjust, ultimately damaging to all system, as advanced and desirable.

Business; supply and demand. Why do so many "demand" their lusts and desires be met, AHEAD of education, health and justice? God knows, and told us in a book, but the media that promotes lust and selfish desire also demotes the value of trusting the messages in that book.

We've been sold a pup, a pig in a poke, a white elephant, poison in a medicine bottle, but saddly most blame God for our foolish trade instead of the first and ultimate merchandiser, His Opposer.

Rant over. Don't know where it came from but I burned out the clutch and breaks, gearing down around each point and stopping where I have. I suppose it's my 'brief' overview of the source and reason for the "unhealthy" controls used against mankind.

[edit on 3-12-2005 by suzy ryan]

[edit on 3-12-2005 by suzy ryan]

I have for a long time now, once I realized what the merchandize treadmill is about ,changed my thinking about this world. Once again ..I am not against capitalism..just the concept that capitalism is what we are about.
We have Capitalism because of what we are about...not we are just capitalists alone. Capitalism is what we see because of who we are. It is not an entitlement program.
Well said Suzy to use the wording "Good Stewards." I totally agree.
I am dubious about big charitys now days..they are often to me ..big buisnesses first ..I choose to whom and what I will be charitable. My favorite is Frank...a local who stands out at the local Wal Mart here with a cookie tin for handouts. I will sometimes get him a sandwhich and drink then leave him some moneys.
I also like the local strip shopping centers rather than the big malls. I tend to go in and get what I want and go home. Most everything I need is there locally and regularly. I am just not much into the "shopping experience" enough to desire spending time in a mall.
Now a book store ..that is a different story. ..though lately I am slowly switching to buying books on line.
Great post Suzy ..keep up the good work.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Ahh, but at that time when men, of the likes of rockefellar, carniege, and others, lived, there's wasn't so much inflation, inflation, eats, up a currency value. and what causes, inflation, ? greed, and mismanagement. anyway, I love money, money is not be despised, and it's truest sense, it is a state of mind. But do you think that wealth is monopolized, to a certain extent?(ala the super rich class?)

I do believe that "inflation" (a construct of evil I won't get into now lest I'm off on another rant) would not be the monster we wrestle with today if people still believed that the best way to display ones wealth and power was through the health, happiness and productivity of their communities, rather than showing off their latest waste of money to a select few they deem worthy of associating with.

We have been turned from producers to consumers and as production time cuts into spending time, more and more people are opting to sit back and watch 'their' investments (other peoples hard work) grow and then claim the right to not put back into the working community because it's money 'they' made, choosing to forget that if those doing the producing were allowed to claim tax rebates on travel, meal, clothing expences etc.,at the same rate as their "overlords", there would be far less of 'their' money to boast with but also far less need for 'charity'.... AHH..., I smell a rant coming so I'll stop and smell the roses instead.

Capitalism was theorized as a means of managing scarce resources. However, today, we face a greater problem of overproduction. The current solution is to provide endless debt to Americans, and then endlessly advertise to sell all the extra goods, which nobody really wants or needs.

If rampant commercialism were stopped, what are all the people working in those industries supposed to do? It seems likely that we could face rampant structural unemployment.

A number of potential solutions have been proposed.

One idea is that large corporations, unions, or governments, manage production, and makes sure everyone gets a decent income. However, there are a number of problems. A lot of people end up with unproductive jobs, and economic control gets taken over by governmental leaders. Somewhat related is to provide research grants for academia, institutes, and other groups to do activities, which aren't necessarily profitable.

Another idea would be for everyone to work less. If everyone had productive jobs, but worked fewer hours, the theory goes we could satisfy all reasonable demand.

The information economy promised something else. The basic idea is that there is basically no end to amount of information we will want. So, even if the physical economy suffers from over-production, people will always want more information and knowledge. Although, I don't think this quite works.

Another idea is to return to old technology, and get rid of modern technology. If modern technology were eliminated, people would there would no longer be over-production. These could be aided by mass illness without developing vaccines.

Another idea is to return to old technology, and get rid of modern technology. If modern technology were eliminated, people would there would no longer be over-production. These could be aided by mass illness without developing vaccines.

New Technology, ahh! Do we really need things like apple Ipods, Motorola Razor Cellphones, expensive gadgets? Is Mass consumerisim , another way, How society could be controlled, covertly, and indirectly? Take the people's attention away, and you could get away with anything, yes?

Untill EVERYONE has a local, well built and well functioning home, school, hospital, sanitation system, transport system, water and energy supply, etc., there should not be a lack of employment.

Were that 'miracle' to happen the work in the SAFE running and maintainence, would be enough to keep a good and healthy level of employment but today we find nothing wrong with endless building of super stadiums while schools and hospitals are running down or closing because they don't turn a big enough PROFIT. When did the health and education of the community stop being profitable? When their heath and education made them harder to CONTROL and sell billions of dollars worth of drugs to.

Just imagine the increase in scientific research, discovery and developement if every high school had and maintained, high quality, teaching labs instead of sports teams that teach kids to beat their undeveloped bodies to a pulp chasing a dream of winning a medal that can't be used to increase their shortened life expectancy that they're gratefull for because of their life long crippling arthritic pain.

I'm married to a maintainence fitter and the one thing thing that stood out about his line of work was that as those jobs got scarce, train derailments, power outages, industrial "accidents" (many deaths) etc. became common. Even when 'human error' was found to be the cause, of these all too frequent disasters, it would be the 'error' of an unqualified, undertrained, overstretched person despirately trying to 'multi task'.

As for the free/cheap labour 'work experience' (I think you Americans call it Internship) scam....Just one example that is a reflection of what goes on in all industries; A 15 y.o. girl gets paid $5.00 a week, for three night shifts being the ONLY carer (the manager stays in the office) of 15 babies and pre-schoolers at a multi-national (American) owned child "care" center. It costs her $5.00 to travel there and back after school each night. The place runs day and night 7 days a week yet only has one qualified childcare worker on staff who doesn't work one full shift a week. These work experience kids are forced to take these jobs to complete their 'education' requirements instead of full time employment being available to a few single mothers to keep their kids in school books and computers.

What I see is an increasing refusal of the super rich to pay a fair wage to the super poor for their super hard work (that they give and TAKE not as the requirement exists but to keep workers insecure enough to accept cruel conditions) rather than employment oppotunites 'running out', and I've been blessed with a broad and varied life that has introduced me to a large range of industries at a variety of levels.

There is plenty of money to be made in the maintainence of happy, healthy and JUST communities but it would blow the lie that we have to decrease the worlds population, to "save the planet", into millions of invisable pieces. If we did what we have the technology to do, but artificially created, financial disincentives NOT to, people would finally accept, on blatent evidence, that the world's been run by evil.

[edit on 4-12-2005 by suzy ryan]

[edit on 4-12-2005 by suzy ryan]

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Untill EVERYONE has a local, well built and well functioning home, school, hospital, sanitation system, transport system, water and energy supply, etc., there should not be a lack of employment.

This could be achieved. However, this increases people's production potential. Although, it wouldn't increase demand all that much. The fundamental problem is that local communities aren't self-sufficient. When prices fall, people become unemployed.

Were that 'miracle' to happen the work in the SAFE running and maintainence, would be enough to keep a good and healthy level of employment but today we find nothing wrong with endless building of super stadiums while schools and hospitals are running down or closing because they don't turn a big enough PROFIT. When did the health and education of the community stop being profitable? When their heath and education made them harder to CONTROL and sell billions of dollars worth of drugs to.

Sports stadiums increase demand for goods. Teams can market sports goods, tickets, TV advertising, etc. Celebrities can endorse products, and convince people to consume more. Healthy people might be able to be more productive instead of being lazy consumers.

Just imagine the increase in scientific research, discovery and developement if every high school had and maintained, high quality, teaching labs instead of sports teams that teach kids to beat their undeveloped bodies to a pulp chasing a dream of winning a medal that can't be used to increase their shortened life expectancy that they're gratefull for because of their life long crippling arthritic pain.

Yep, there would be great advances in science. More people might even get the idea of becoming more self-sufficient, and cut the elite out of their plans. Sports teaches people to compete with each other, and follow the official rules.

I'm married to a maintainence fitter and the one thing thing that stood out about his line of work was that as those jobs got scarce, train derailments, power outages, industrial "accidents" (many deaths) etc. became common. Even when 'human error' was found to be the cause, of these all too frequent disasters, it would be the 'error' of an unqualified, undertrained, overstretched person despirately trying to 'multi task'.

Yep. A lot of companies prefer to hire Lawyers over maintainence fitters. So, the added costs often can be passed on to the victims, or paid directly or indirectly through some sort of government subsidies.

As for the free/cheap labour 'work experience' (I think you Americans call it Internship) scam

In America, an internship typically means part time job in your career while you are still in school. There are paid and unpaid internships. A lot of times, these jobs consist of filing in for people during the summer. The unpaid internships are generally in things like theater.

What I see is an increasing refusal of the super rich to pay a fair wage to the super poor for their super hard work (that they give and TAKE not as the requirement exists but to keep workers insecure enough to accept cruel conditions) rather than employment oppotunites 'running out',

What you say is true to an extent. Not all of the people who don't pay fair wages are super rich, either. Like, I know this entrepeneur who came up with a product. He then found a contractor to assemble his widgets over in China. He went to visit the factory, and he saw the smoke-filled room were young woman solder together his part. He was all smile about how cheap a deal he got. Although, in a way he doesn't have a choice if he wants to sell to Walmart. They generally demand that all of their suppliers cut labor costs to a minimum for maximum profit. They have been infamous for not allowing a higher retail price.

There is plenty of money to be made in the maintainence of happy, healthy and JUST communities but it would blow the lie that we have to decrease the worlds population, to "save the planet", into millions of invisable pieces. If we did what we have the technology to do, but artificially created, financial disincentives NOT to, people would finally accept, on blatent evidence, that the world's been run by evil

I'm just saying that pure capitalism has some problems. Look at where the world's wealth resides. A lot of the world's wealthiest cities are centered around the world's largest financial markets. In these markets, people are figuring out how to trick and cheat each other left and right. Various traders have mastered every way to make money lots of money off these markets through every means. The fundamental thing they exploit is that people don't naturally invest to maximize returns (see Prospect theory). I also think the zero-sum game aspect of finance makes people act contrary to ethical principles. Those peolple who suceed at the markets, become rulers of our society. These same skills are required for gambling, and increasingly form the basis of modern business leadership.

They have identified "them" very well!! sorry for typo

Yeah sure that was a typo Orangetom ...just wrong board to get into who "they" are- but of often it's "them"! LOL

Hmmm... good Point suzy ryan. But I am wondering, with the shifting from one age to next, the Agarian age( agriculture), to industrialized age to space age, now to the information age, with all these ages, those who refuse to adapt to change, will be left out in the cold, but in order for each individual to progress with the times they need to reinvent themselves, over and over again.

I know and accept that there is good and bad in all things, though to varying degrees of the scale. When it comes to sporting endeavours, the promotion and "worship" of it, I see it high up the 'evil' end of the scale and this is coming from someone who knows what it's like to hold world records in competition.

Sports makes money because it's been "sold" to us as "highly desireable" in ALL it's forms of "partisipation" including alot of expence going into, I'll be blunt, buying JUNK; but if it's "sports junk", ain't no one gonna make you feel foolish, yet drop a tenth of what you spend on "sports junk", in a homeless persons cup and you'll have no end of folk telling you, "you did wrong!"

Economics is a fascinating subject, particularly in that it can be, and is, MANIPULATED to drive trends and forces counter to instinctively just and basic needs.

But have you noticed that only large industrialized, countries like the Usa and England, it's where, the big sports idols are? The Big Music idols, actors, actresses, ? why is that so? Is it that the economiy of both these nations are so similar 6that they can create industries such as these?

I belong to the God I know... purchased by Blood...The God revealed to me by His will ..not mine. I am not a god and never will be. This is obvious by the very fact that we age...no matter how much we try to cheat aging ...there is something very wrong with the material of which we are made. It is inferior material..corrupt as the old timers would say. This is not the material of God. Not possible. No matter how much we read and educate ourselves ...we go the way of all flesh..this is not the pattern of gods.

I am admittedly curious to your thinking Orangetom b/c I was kind of under the impression we believe in the same God...but I do realize it does not mean we do or must all belive in the same ways...

But to begin with, yes, our bodies are corrupt...but we are to put on incorruption are we not?...and be perfected...by the very blood that "bought" us and redeems us and beats death and corruption...

so that when we return to our "Father" and become immortal-living eternally-and our corruption puts on incorruption and our mortality puts on immortality...then what do we become Orangetom? Winged angels?

when we are not the corrupt mortal humans we are... what are we then?

...and though our Father is not made of the same material we mortally are...are we not made in His image? Physically/spiritually...so while we have to live this life, there is purpose and reason for it, just as there was in the blood that has bought and paid for our eternity...who is to say what He has been, or what we can/will become?

...we can know much, but not everything... and we are accountable for everything we do know... so it is often better we don't know as much as we could!! LOL

...but still I think we believe/worship/commune with the same God, so I'd like to have your opinon on what we do become...what is our potential if not to be like Him, why does He set us an Earthly example though his mortal corruptable son and tell us our goal is to strive to be like unto him...

while promising us the eternal life-immortality combined with salvation (reconcilliation with God) being "eternal life" and even prmoises degrees of glory...

so after making us in His image but mortally for now, and promising immortality like him, to live with Him and/or worthy of His presence...what is our potential-we does our Father groom us for?...what is His son considered...? What is your opinion?

And to tie this into the subject at hand I ask because I do know that religions control people...but I think it's other forces in religeon that really control people...good and bad...and sometimes it seems that control of the masses is evil because it seems to take away free agency-and we are here to exercise the agency to choose between goodp and evil...and at the same time...if a religeon is "correct" and it controls peole by giving them correct guidelines to live by...

I don't know...maybe my question or concern isn't as easily expressed, but it seesm to me, in the issue of control and mind control and controlling the masses... it is hard to draw a distinction between the aspects of "good vs evil" in the very real existential spiritual and even "religeous" sense

lowest common denominator

This is the term I often feel most acurrate to use as well and I get so sick of being fed garbage-especially adverstsising garbage...

(...and advertising isn't just in actual adds on tv/movie or in mags...it seems EVERYTHING around me lately feels like some type of advertisement for my money, my attention, my beliefs, or my train of thought....buy this with your money or buy this with your mind and too often it's one in the same...but anyway...)

...the way it is aimed at the lowest common denominator used to actually offend me...like WTF? Do you really think I-or we ("the people" LOL) are so freakin stupid?!?!?! or ALL think this way or don't see what is being played to?

...and now it just makes me sad...because now I realize the answer is yes..."we" are all too often that stupid and "they" know it...and thats why they play to it

the lowest common denominator is a sad sad sad reflection of the sate of affairs of peoples minds

as for capitalism...I too am not against capitalism...

and I do understand advertising etc,,, actually btdt and am ashamed in some ways retrospectively how I have coahed others on how to manipulate people...how make people "feel" certain ways and how to use the right words or phrases to accomplish it or tricks in pricing...basically, how to take advantage of people

...but still...these days...it makes me sad and sick to my stomach that the lowest omon denominator is soooo low, you know?

LOL... ah but then again... how about COL

We've been sold a pup, a pig in a poke, a white elephant, poison in a medicine bottle, but saddly most blame God for our foolish trade instead of the first and ultimate merchandiser, His Opposer. Rant over. Don't know where it came from but I burned out the clutch and breaks, gearing down around each point and stopping where I have. I suppose it's my 'brief' overview of the source and reason for the "unhealthy" controls used against mankind.

SUZY! Boy you make me feel at home in my own head and heart. I come here for opinions and to gain some wisdom and understanding along with just knowledge...and on such a topic as control, I am happy to see opinions from those from where I know there head and heart are. :-)

So, Thank you for your rant LOL

Ahh, yes Crusader, the difference of the "ages". No matter what Monsanto and the like tell you, ducks need ponds, cows need fields and those crops they're airial spraying to 'test' whether you've "stolen" "their" G.M. seed (if it dies you just lost 100,000's of thousands of dollars of income and if it doesn't you can pay that money to them) need REAL fertilizer, hedgerows, rotation and fallow seasons to produce HEALTHY, SAFE foods that won't leave you with mad cow, bird flu, JCD etc. This, "healthy for all, always" farming takes labour, labour we could afford if we didn't have to insure ourselves against such diseases etc.

Big subject again, with lots of "yes buts" that could be thrown backwards and forwards. It is worthwhile however to concider how many of mans "advancements" were created to counter the problems caused by previous "advancements".

Ladys First.

Suzy..you posted:

"It is worthwhile however to concider how many of mans "advancements" were created to counter the problems caused by previous "advancements".

Good point. This one takes some time and very deep thinking. Worth musing on ..Well done.

Suzy..on another subject.. and I must be careful in making this post as my thoughts are on the subject here of control but also deeply disturbed by the implications of what I was watching and musing on while viewing the Discovery channel the other night.
Suzy..you have made several good references to making and taking time and particular detail to raising your children..particularly when you could be living a different kind of life than what you are....at least that is the summation of your posts as I recall.
Now Suzy, I bring up this recollection about some of your previous posts because the program I was watching on Discovery was about feral children and thier behavior problems when they are introduced back into our social structure. The crux of the program which I interpreted was the feralness and behaviour problems of these children interacting with others ...they tend to go back to feralness. The "experts" cited the lack of bonding with mature parents and therefore not being able make the transition to socializing with other humans. This lack of bonding seemed to have changed thier brain development which for many was permanent.
I say the implications of this were deeply disturbing because I see this type of feral maladjustment in many children today with parents ..though usually parents who have split up. It also became obvious to me why some children after years and years of television/peer group grooming have behavior problems. They are in some areas or arenas....feral.
Suzy ..do you see what I am getting at...I am not saying all children are or will turn out like this .but I am saying that it is noticable in some of them.
It became very clear to me the lack of loving caring guidance of parents and what it does to development or arrested development in children and eventually adults.
I guess Suzy ..what I am asking or thinking is that I am not nuts in this line of thinking am I???

The purpose for which I am thinking this is that to go to the next step in development of this line of reasoning....our Governments raising them for us.

Suzy ..unless I am way off base here ..the very best our Governments can do in raising them for us..is merely to ...wharehouse them. That is it..peak performance...nothing better is possible under Government control. The very epitome of Government performance.
Now Suzy..unless I miss my mark again this is exactly what is done by television and peer group raised kids..they tend to show wharehousing behaviors. Feralness.
Anyway ..the main point is that this is why parenting is so important.and not given enough credit for what it really is in lieu of the standard government lines...and many experts in social thinking today. Even experts in education.
I probably should have saved alot of space by saying that good and well grounded parenting is so important to proper development of our children.
This program brought alot home to me ...in things I see around me ..and even about control. It was a eye opener...and one I was not totally prepared for when I tuned into this program.

Now to you thinks2much.

The God that I know ..is a Soverign God. As long as I am in this body of clay..I suffer corruption and the fruits of corruption. I mean this in everything I do or ever will do in this body of flesh/clay.
When I stand before Him ..I pray that God sees the Blood covering my corrupt body..not me. And not my blood either but the Blood which has purchased me from this world of corruption. This is the closest I will ever be to perfection and it is not my doing ..nothing I myself can boast about. All my boasting is of Him.not me. On my own merits I will never have anything of which to boast.
Thinks2much..I can assure you that I tried every way I could to get out of this Path...and go back to the world. I tried every way I could think of to find a corner to hide from this Knowlege. Problem was.....I kept running out of corners. Running out of excuses. I kept finding out that most of the things in this world I used to love to wallow in.......just were not satisfying.
I still have a kindred spirit with the flesh ..but it does not have the allure or hold on me for which it used to beckon.
You know , think2much...I believe the people with whom I used to love to run in the "excesses of this world" noticed it before I did. They, at some level, sensed something was changed in me. Strange how that worked out. I just drifted away from them..I left them right where they were at. Some of them are still under the Bondage of this world. A couple of them have gone the way of all flesh. Two others have been accepted in the Faith. Praise God. Hallelujah. It is good when we meet but mostly we exchange e-mails now days as we now live in different citys.

There is a fine line..in this world ..in the concept of perfection ...and it contrasts verily with what is in the Word. This world would have us boasting of our perfection even while coming across that it is of God when I know in my flesh I can boast of nothing. Care must be taken here..otherwise one will easily slip back into the bondage of this world. Many snares and devices have been made to do this ..often by men of the cloth themselves. Wolves in sheeps clothing. This too is control.

Thanks to both you and Suzy,
Orangetom

Thinks2much and Suzy....Ladys First....suzy...

hhhmmmmm-just exactly what are you trying to say there Orangetom? LOL

No, admittedly I don't flaunt on these boards that I am one gender or another, I was just wondering what made you *think*/know I wasn't a "lady"...or are you merely drawing me out?

Anyway...

the Blood which has purchased me from this world of corruption. This is the closest I will ever be to perfection and it is not my doing ..nothing I myself can boast about. All my boasting is of Him.not me. On my own merits I will never have anything of which to boast

I would agree....even the apostles claimed the very same...what I am wondering about beyond the corruptable body is what is promised when we do face our maker, covered in atoning blood and made spotless through grace which is sufficient...once we put on immortality and our corruption puts on incorruption... what then?

I ask because having a background in having been very literally brainwashed against certain religions, beliefs, and certain trains of thought I find many many people who believe with all of their heart certain ways...with confirmation of the spirit of the truth, but without opening their minds to understand the wholeness of that truth...thus they remin limited beyond understanding cherishing their own salvation

You seem to have a heart and spirit -a body even that has shunned the flesh-the way of the world-and thus are wholly converted to the truth-and an outstanding mind that continues to teach and learn, but I am unsure if your mind still has certain prejudicial limitations set upon it by the "understanding of the world" of what the Word actually says and what it doesn't...thus a whole understanding of only part of the truth...

this to me is a type of control still...a prejudicial mindset so that you can accept that what you have..but still not become a threat to the system at large...not grow "too much" enough to satisfy and sustain you but not become too...hmmm....I wont say powerful....but how about more influencial perhaps?

....and I'm not sure to what end or by whom...

I once walked the path you do...converted by God and not man...this after walking a path of the world of man...this after first walking the path of religiously controled brainwashing...so I relished the truth and freedom of the truth just a year ago after those preceeding walks

now days I have relapsed to the flesh-a hiatus from my morals I joke...but while my body and heart seem to suffer...my mind suffers more as it is still all to aware of what I am doing...

hmm.... what I am very ineffectively saying is I believe self-control is a good thing...even righteous dominion is a good thing....when I was controlled by truth it benefitted me, when I break away from that truth-that control-I find I am up for auction it seems are ther are many elements willing to replace that and call to control me...

...and I see it in many avenues in the world-in ways I wasn't always so aware of...but increasingly am...not because of my hiatus, but because of the truth my walk provided me with prior to it...and now stepping off that path I find when I encounter other controling forces-be it the seeminlgy trivial and inconseqential hype of celebrity, the call to consumerism, etc..I more readily identify them than I did before...yet still I find it is after I've given into the influence and I suddenly go WTH?

But then I see the control of governemts on nations and the control of large issues like poverty and health...war and free trade....and in it all the one force most prevalent is ignorance...it is the ignorance of the masses and the individuals that gives the power to those who have dominion in these areas

I see it in religion and even in individual spirituality

anyway, no matter how I look at it, the main factor seems to be- it is the control of full knowledge...like when Bibles were not even in print and available to the common people...

to coin a phrase... "the truth is out there" LMAO but truly it is if we seek it-ALL of it and want to know...

I keep seeking, but I know my hiatus must come to an end if I am evert to really find answers to anything and have full truth of everything I have answers to...but sometimes even knowledge isn't enough to break free of control...that is another point...one must WANT to break free of control

I think many-if not most of society-is comfortable with the control-all of it-it's all they've known and htis sysytem works for them. Ignorance truly is bliss then, eh?