How to control People

you both continue to amaze and console me-all the while ever gently exhorting me towards the SELF-CONTROL I'm lacking

Suzy-I do have both a broken heart and contrite heart...and yet my spirit remains temporarily rebellious...your words though bring a peace-and a tear-to me though as I realize the truth about judgment as you've pointed out...sometimes there are circumstances -extenuating circumstances- and only He knows how valiant we are in our trials, for only He knows what we are capable of enduring, what has been inflicted upon us and can judge us righteously...because I am too imperfect to think I could judge myself perfectly...so I shall try not to...

Actually truth be known-I invited this...nearly a year ago now, after praying feverently on my knees daily on a specific subject- I in desperation prayed that He would do "whatever is necessary-even to the point enduring tragedy" for the necessary changes to take place...

...this had been had been the most spiritual year for me (2004) since my "FULL conversion" as I'd refer to it (I was brought up Christian, but had never lived up to that faith or had God convert my heart to anything until 1998)

For six years I had self control and the world had NO CONTROL over me...temptation seemed non-existant and I seemed to "see through" the agendas of the world...such as the errosion of the sanctity of marriage and "family" ....the immoral and sexualization of everything...the greed, the hate, the apathy, the agendas

anyway....consequently after that prayer...all hell seemed to break loose...

suddenly I felt like an emotional Job, and somehow abandoned by Him...but some days...I feel like it's what I asked for...that He did remove the protection I had once had...to what end? To fullfill what I had prayed for...I don't know how exactly yet...because I have to come full circle and do my part too...but when I prayed that prayer I did it in faith knowing I could handle anything through Him that strengthens me...

what I didn't realize was that the tragedy would be the personal tragedy of having my OBEDIENCE tested...while having my source of strength removed...He did not abandon me because He will not forsake me...however protection WAS removed...discernment removed....tragedy invited for a higher purpose for which I was willing to endure "anything" I claimed...came by this route...what other route could it come by-certainly He would not cause tragedy...but He removed His protection and allowed tragedy...and I realize...I asked for this...

...and the more I became inflicted, and gave in to temptation...well the further that drives one away from Him, right? ...so the further I was from my source of strength... by my own actions...and then the less able to stand against temptation...and then with each fall, I fell further from Him...

and I don't want to be on the treadmill you speak of Orangetom...not a worldly one running after worldy things that can not please...nor a spiritual one that keeps me running until spiritually exhausted-but gets me no closer to Him...

I just have this huge CONTROL problem my mind, heart, body and soul too affected...and when it comes down to it it doeasn't matter if it's politics, media, entertainment blah blah blah selling me on whatever works...it's all the opposition isn't it? Thats what it boils down to...

It just seems my biggest weakness, my achiilies heel etc... was suddenly exposed to the opposition while simultaneously my protection removed...

and I think...I ASKED for THIS?

this was Sooooooo not what I had planned on...I kind of saw myself as the rock...the spiritual grounding that would help SOMEONE else whom I had been praying for go through tragedy when I prayed that prayer...but I guess...you can't really invite tragedy upon another for their own good-even if you are willing to be at their side and endure it with them

...but He has shown me I can-and did-invite it on myself...and certainly without Him I can endure NOTHING...I just didn't know what I had asked for

He's given me several indications of it being time to bring it all to an end...but somehow...I resist...knowing I brought it about upon myself and can end it myself as well..and must...but yet as He calls me home - I resist...and the longer I do...each time I do...the harder it is to remember what it was like...just a year ago...or the way home...

like I said the CONTROL I feel is the lack of SELF control indeed...

even as I have tried in vain to repent...I cannot...because I know...in someways I am unrepentant...a broken heart and a contrite spirit-yes...and yet...then I think again.. but I deserve it...

"it" by the way-and you might laugh at the irony- is not riches or materialism or fame....but emotional satisfaction and love...

funny, huh?!

and I think I can find that in the world or in mortals? I keep reminding myself of the author of love and emotional satisfaction...but then again He hardwired us for this/these need(s)...especailly my gender (the truth clearly out now if it wasn't obvious before-LOL)...and add my personal dysfunctional childhood and... I'm just screwed-LOL

but isn't it funny that really what CONTROLS EVERYONE is basically the same thing...emotional satisfaction and a need for love..and the world sells it as being found in fame and fortune-in politics, science, sports, religeon, entertainment etc... and in sexual promiscuity and deviation...

and really it can only be found truly outside of all of that

...but the drives are the same in each of us whether we recognize or accept it or not...even power is an egomaniacal way to command love in the form of respect and adoration and fear from others ....and we are hardwired to seek that emotional fullfillment so we will seek Him

...but then are decieved into thinking it (emotional fullfillment) can come from the world...because the opposition knows this need and weakness and exploits it...and feeds our need with deciet...emotional fixes from Tv and Movie and drugs and alchohol to num,b the reality that the world fails to meet our deepest need...

the world gives of the world-which is like feeding a baby water...our bellies will be temporarily filled for the moment...but we will feel the hunger all to soon...we need living water to be satiated and fulfilled

you know that is why the errosion of family is so important to the opposition...it ensures generations of children starving for the emotional fullfillment they are to first know in their own family, and where they'd learn of God's unconditional and ultimately fulfilling love too as well...and when these most basic needs are denied...we have a society of seekers...driven by this need...this huge void...and a world run by the opposition offering to fill that void in every way imaginable, and then some unimaginable ways too...

whatever we fill that emotinal need with-controls us

I once filled it with my spirituality...and was happily controled by the self control it brought me and taught me

*sigh*

no wonder I now feel controled...and seek the world for fulfillment...and find nothing lasting and conflict co-existing with it all...

my needs haven't changed...and I do deserve what I seek-but in a good way Orangetom-I'm hardwired for it...we all are...I've just been looking in all the wrong places to be trite...

I do deserve to have my void fiilled...to know the peace and excitement and the complete emotional and spiritaul fulfillment I am hardwired to seek and want to find...I do deserve to find it, but I can only find it in Him-nothing the world can offer



[edit on 10-12-2005 by think2much]

and to clarify...why do I deserve emotional fulfillment and love? by works or anything of mysef? No, but because He made us this way...to need for those things and to feel deserved of them so we would seek Him...seek it all-and find it-in Him

but the opposition twists the truth and turns that emotional fulfilment and love desrved feeling into something entirely different and self serving...and self destructive...

I see this form seems to be degenerating into pseudo-spiritualistic, religious self-congratulatory posts. Consumerism may be the dominant ideology, but it is far from the only one. Just because lots of people disagree with you, also doesn't mean you aren't being controlled.

Remember, those people who are most controlled don't realize it. Are you being controlled by your conception of God? Are you being controlled by God? Is this a good thing? What does that mean? Can anyone truly not be controlled by something?

Orangetom emphasized faith. Faith basically means belief without proof. What do most people have faith in? Do you agree with what they place faith in? So, why is faith good?

Strong, sustained faith allows people to accomplish their goals. Without a strong belief, you are likely to be sidetracked or give up. People who've strongly believed in things have been able to accomplish a lot. However, there have been many differing viewpoints that have been held with strong faith. Many crazed cults---from nearly any perspective---have had true believers. Does this make them right?

Are you concerned about being controlled by others people's ideas, or are you just concerned about people, who purposelessly wonder from one fad to the next. Do you just want sustained purpose of character? In a way, those people are controlled as well. It is just that their program doesn't change

Faith is good, but it depends what you keep it in. And since most of ya', I guess are here thanks to Bush, etc. I think we need to put things back into perspective for ya'll. Even BSB fans don't act that bad, trust me.

You may be pawn to someone, but it's naive to think God is gonna make it happen, god may or may not have your back, but you can make it happen. And this topic is secular, so please, keep things in persepective, anyone have a website on psychological conditioning?

I see this form seems to be degenerating

contab a few of us have followed a train of thought and evolved the discussion in one particular direction, not to be exclusionary to any other thinking, and I for one applogize as it obvious upsets you to the point of your deprecating remarks or you'd not have bothered to make them

Consumerism may be the dominant ideology, but it is far from the only one. Just because lots of people disagree with you, also doesn't mean you aren't being controlled.

I don't think any idealogy has meant to be excluded...besides consumerism what would you point out and discuss? As for alot of people disagreeing with someone...being some type of validation for not being controlled?-forgive me, but I don't understand your point connecting the two...

Remember, those people who are most controlled don't realize it. Are you being controlled by your conception of God? Are you being controlled by God? Is this a good thing? What does that mean? Can anyone truly not be controlled by something?

I would be entirely inclined to agree that most people-even the majority are unaware they are being controled.

As for your question about God/control...in my search not to be psychologically controled by others, media controled, publically controled and decieved etc...I have asked my own questions about religious control etc and is it good or bad...

I'd have to answer first, to your first point, NO. I don't think I or anyone can be controled by the God I know. HE offeres choice through free willl and strength and direction for self control-but does not control us-is it a fgood thing? To have choice and free will but strength to have self control...uh yeah...to me that ideally is a GOOD THING

and no I don't think anyone can truly NOT be controlled by something...like I said, it is my belief and opinon that we are hardwired with certain needs as humans...whoever masters them controls us...be it ourselves mastering self control...

or several other possibilities...

being as I've recently LOST my SELF control-much to my delight and dismay-I've now been more interested in what the other controling factors might be...tv, media, govt...etc...

and wondering if I'd been decieved by my own religious beliefs-yes having my faith tested as a part of it-and exploring that here as well with others who understand where I'm coming from

thanks for your patience in enduring our

pseudo-spiritualistic, religious self-congratulatory posts.

LOL

seriously again, sorry it was so offensive to you, and I'll try to detached enough to not be offended or irritated by your oppoision to our such postings taking a spiritual direction you obviously disagree with-and you feel free to take the discussion in a different direction or just ignore the things you disagree with-but I think I'm done on the religious aspect anyway...just waiting for someone to come along and post something else on CONTROL...if it be you-take it away...

you've got my attention...I look forward to what you or anyone esle has to say excluding religion and spirituality

No one has to believe there is an ultimate source of control, that the 'free' flow of this thread has lead some to express. I for one, and I think you can tell by Orangetom's initial posts and their reluctant progression to touch on faith, are aware that most people don't want a "God perspective" fro which to concider any aspects of their life, yet we felt 'free' to share what taught us to 'see' socially negative/harmfull controls and reject them.

Think2much has, IMO, showed courage in sharing his battle with controls of this world, from a real life perspective that could very well reach those, ironicly, controled by the desire to NOT conform/be controled.

I fully accept many may want more nitty gritty, "MKUltra type" discussions and it would be great if they added their thoughts, but to pop up to say this thread has 'degenerated,' without adding controls to be wary of, well it just seems an attempt to restrict/control the breadth of the topic.

O.K. there was the, "beware of the control of faith" issue raised, with the strong suggestion that the freedom found in faith is false and this is something I too agree with, to a point. The faith I have gives me the freedom to act on conscience, based on principles even 'humanists' could accept, and not be bound to 'socially accepted norms'.

Car ownership is something I've been happily free of for many years. My culture says you 'need' a car. In the past, I was one to cover over 250,000 KM in a year by car. At times I would love one to jump into but found my needs were better met putting car running costs into 'needfull things' and use other transport options on a needs basis including the 'need' for holidays. I no longer work to keep a car on the road but to leave an inheritance for my children.

I hope those working to be a 2 SUV family, at the expence of strangers raising their children, will concider that if one who drove as many miles as I did can be HAPPILY free of car ownership, that maybe our car worshipping culture is promoted to control our movement and spending rather than free it.
While we're 'driving in circles' spending on petrolium products, we aren't in our communites, investing in our neighbours.

I recommend a thread on 'Skunkworks', "A conspiracy against children: Exactly who is out of control", by, Loam.

It's heart wrenching stuff but VERY important. Try to digest the whole thing before you decide 'The West' doesn't go to extreem lengths to control us all.

You posted:
"anyone have a website on psychological conditioning? "

This is a very intresting word..psychological ...from Greek if I recall.

On the "secular " side of thinking and musing if you look up the word Psyche..and the etymology of the word from Greek it refers to the soul..or from the Greek word ...soul. In some dictionarys you see this word from Greek implying spirit or breath... This is secular??????
Its been awhile but as I recall the Greek word for mind or body is ..soma.
Perhapsed it should be somaology in stead of psychology.

Someone today has done a 180 degree turn around on us without most of us being aware of it. Is this control????? Higher learning??

My point in this is be very careful what you think is secular...it is often religious without higher education making us aware of this.

When you carefully conceal something like this ..without many people being aware of this or its history isnt that sometimes called...occult hidden.
But that would imply religious and thats not allowed in the secular world
We need to be careful what we think is secular...sometimes it is in fact religious. It is just fed to us in a manner in which we often dont recognize as religious and we think it is just normal.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I am not talking about "self control" I think that may be the source of your problem. I was talking about control by Faith ..with a capital F. This is very different from "self control".
I hope you understand the difference.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I am not talking about "self control" I think that may be the source of your problem. I was talking about control by Faith ..with a capital F. This is very different from "self control".

I do understand buddy, I do...I just sometimes have to spell things out re: whats in my head/heart for my lowest common denominator frame of mind anyway

as always suzy and orangetom I appreciate your knowledge and life wisdom and perspectives...always...

Habit 0

It is strnge sometimes how our brains work.when we are young the world is new to us and our brains are impressionable.at this point depending on the ability of the individual to think and use their brain through the developement of the genetic evolution that their family line has experienced they begin to discover and realize their world around them.in youth we are formed through our environment and mental conditioning.the levels of influence from each variable is succeptable to change.this is where we get the instances where aperson who has all the makings of a good home turns into a killer or psychopath.now where the grey area in this topic is why do people sink into paterns of comfortability.and habit.i believe that the subconcious is the reason.now its hard to describe and discuss something that as far as i know has no physical form id like to let people know that i have
little school education and rarely do i read on others thoughts until now....
but i believe that the way it works is that with time our brains accept the information that we recieve in a sort of
i dunno.it gains weight with time so to speak the more its programmed the more concrete we believe the information.now if i have these thoughts .surely those in charge of the americana propeganda assault on our subconcious to buy their products through trained actors and 35 second bombardments know this all to well.
now i dont watch t.v.but i wonder how many minuits if we took all the people who watch tv in one day.and
added up the amount of time of Macdonalds commercials watched i bet it would add up to ten years worth.
now we all look at time as being one thing that governs our lives(well many of us do)but i dont.each experience of life is its on individual time line.for many of us do not exist at the same time.although we are here at the same time.....thats another topic.but ten years worth of macdonalds commercials are watched in one day by all of us
now i bet its more but hey..this is all hypothetical.so any way i have gotten off topic a bit i think
all for now l8r

Toraylin, this is what Orangtom was getting at in mentioning 'Faith Control'. On the purely chemical responces of the brain to constant, 'drip fed' information, we really have no effective defences. There is however a 'Spirit' that can 'override' what is wiring our brains.

The opposite of your example of someone from good upbringing turning bad, is that of those who have grown only learning reasons to hate yet being blessed with an 'override' that tells them to ignor all those 'justifiable' responces to 'unjust' actions.

I've seen both examples, and experienced the latter myself, time and time again. If it wasn't for this 'override' I would have had no 'sane', 'justifiable' 'reason', not to join one of a number of groups that hunts down and "reigns justice" on child sex traders who are 'protected' by 'friends' in high places ensurring they don't get charged.

Some would argue this is just being controled by the 'religious message' to leave judgement up to God yet it doesn't explain those who haven't heared this message or have grow up constantly hearing it being derided yet 'instinctively' trust there is a more just 'judgement' than anything they could deliver.

The term I use for spending so much time in front of a tv and such ..watching movies..is " wharehousing" or being wharehoused. Stored until one picks up on the cues and clues to perform according to the program.
Advertisements for food are textbook for control. The very jucy hamburger or pizza flashed across the screen designed to make us drool and salivate. In this way they appeal to our baser emotions for sustinance.
The other ads appeal to our baser emotions for acceptance ..by buying this product or that...for appeal to others...particularly using some kind of sexual appeal or pleasing within this underlining tone or quality.
Another conditioning technique which insults me is the polticial ads using emotions again..to get us to pull the correct lever in a voting booth. Politics too has made the connection between base behavior and emotional appeal for the purposes of getting us to correctly perform.

If you are not aware of these techniques and how they are used to seduce you to a performance level which is not strictly your choice...you will never recognize this seduction as whoredom.
This is what comes from being unthinkingly wharehoused in this manner.
You know Toraylin..one of the biggest insults to me is the use or ,another way of looking at it, misuse of Hollywood and Music Industry stars to push political positions. As if these people/stars are somehow more highly qualified to get into my brain and soul for votes than am I myself. Talk about insulting. Most people dont think about it this way..yet our news media constantly flash these people across our screens as if they are some type of Holy Grail for the body politic. This too is cheap control for the whoredom in the body politic.
The key word here other than the term " wharehousing" is' baser emotions'. Or as Think2much and I often use..." Lowest common denominator". They try to get you to jump on the bandwagon using techniques which appeal to our conduct at a level of the "lowest common denominator"
When you condition yourself to think this through ..you can observe the technique change slightly depending on the age of the audience to which they try to appeal. Younger audiences the appeal level is much more base and emotional..intense too.
You know ,Toraylin, one of the bits of historical trivia for which I often remind myself about advertising on television..is the program here in America which is titled "Gunsmoke". The reason Gunsmoke was taken off first run television slots is that though it was very popular until the day it was taken off prime time.. the people who watched this program were a more adult mature audience. They did not stick around for the commericials...they were the type of people who would switch channels during the commerical breaks or go do something else. They did not sit through and be subject to this type of conditioning training. So this program ,Gunsmoke, lost advertisers and hence its prime time slot. What replaced it was some kind of program appealing to a younger audience who would unthinkingly sit through a commercial break and be subject to the conditioning training and of course..buy the products.
The trick so to speak is how to break the conditioning or chain. How to recognize this when it is flashed in front of you..no matter whether it is on a screen or a book or magazine...on the radio etc etc.
Break the conditioning....think ...muse...train yourself.

Thanks for reposting here,
Orangetom

Thanks for that thread..Skunkworks the conspiracy against children. I thought it was a book title and was looking for it on Amazom. LOL LOL.
I finally got it right and have bookmarked it for future reading. It looks like there are several intresting threads on Skunkworks. Until you posted this I never knew that this thread Skunkworks even existed.
Thanks for this information. I will be reading it.

Orangetom

It's amazing how many methods indirect, direct, covert of how to control people in many ways are out there? Yes? Have we told the lies already , since the Magna Carta, and all those other laws that was supposed to bring empowerement to the people end up being the bastard child of the masses? Hmm, just food for thought

Orangetom there is an interesting thread on subliminal messages over on para www.abovetopsecret.com...
it is kind of getting into mind control..........

Control of the masses, is not only reserved to dictators, tryants, Governments, benign, and autocratic. but it could be used by the people among you, your family your friends, the society at large. Have you heard about the term Normal people and what others may think of me mental slavery? This is the syndrome where many people get caught up in doing things because everybody is doing it, For example premarital sex.

There are other ways of The everybody is doing mental slavery , do you all have any others?

Break the conditioning....think ...muse...train yourself.

Orangetom-I think this will be my new mantra!

my biggest tool in gaining understanding is very little outside influence
the major tactic to the corporations is what i will call cramming our concious
subcouncious and uncocious parts of ourbrains work together to form a net(keep in mind that i have a grade 9 education here)where we conciously take in a certain amount of information now what we arnt totaly aware of is still stored its kind of like when we focus our eyes on a certain object we are using our concious to analize this object to full extent but the subconcious keeps the rest of the information there in the background i believe that this is why things go fuzzy have you ever tried to foucus on everything?
but ill get to that another time.anyway a person will hypotheticaly speaking take in say half of the information that their eyes see in a half hour show more if they are really interested and they apply more of their attention towards it but our subconious takes in it all. now here is the pinch
why are commercials only 35 seconds to 55 seconds long.because if you are watching a five minuit commercial you will look away but if there is alot of flashy things that go by quick.now i dont know the specs of the human attention span and how long it lingers upon a subject after we decide that it is not interesting.but im sure that they have it figured out .so in short
if they keep your concious occupied enough looking at the screen long enough to get you to watch the 35 second commercial that will be gone and on to the next one just as quick to keep your concious moving along.
by the time you are five minuits back into your show yoou will have conciously forgotten what you saw but your subconcious logged the whole thing now couple that with how many times they do this to you in an hour or so. you are being subjected to the worst mental conditioning ever...
now if no one ever watched t.v where would we be....
when i was growing up t.v was still cheesy and had holsome(spelling?)
cartoons that showed you careing and morals like thundercats carebears even inspector gadget.nothing compared to the programming we see today anyway thats all from me for now.....

Some one said , in anothe thread in skunkworks that subliminal messages are in printed words, They are! I have ever wondered why there's a spike in violence worldwide? people are numbed to the effect of seeing countless images of bloated, decapitated bodies on their TV screens everyday, they are being changed inwardly and they don't even know. I don't know if you all have known of this? There are parts of L.A and in the U.S, where u pretend you do not see anybody been murdered in hail of gunfire, , and you have to be silent because they are coming after you next. We see it alot of times on Tv, so it reflects back on reality.

Be Bless