Ive often thought of this situation but from a different angle.
My first clue was years ago when they did a made for television movie about nuclear war. I do not recall the title..perhapsed someone else remembers ..but when the movie was over they had a panel of "experts" to brainwash us on how to think in analyzing the movie. One of the "experts" was Henry Kissinger. Kissinger was my first clue that this was a propaganda movie to control the pattern of our thinking. By the advise of "experts" we are supposed to emotionally jump on the bandwagon and get with the program.
Since that movie I have seen this scenerio repeated over many times. I know by this pattern I am supposed to jump on the bandwagon and run the program like a good puppet on a string.
The other tell tale sign of certain programming is that so many people today describe some facet of thier lives or their morality by some movie scene they have watched ...not by real actual experience. Their experiences are second or third hand. Very strange. A sort of vicarious morality and easy to see that their morality may be someone elses morality transplanted to them by emotional control. Grab these people emotionallly by some second hand visual stimulus you have imbedded in thier consciounce and you can control them ...especially emotionally. Phil Donahue and the talk show format was clear evidence of this trend. Eventually this format tended twords its eventual perversion by the likes of Jerry Springer and Rikki Lake. All emotional jerk off programming. Thank God much of it has tapered off..it was going quickly into the gutters for ratings.
I do not believe this lesson has been lost on the body politic. They have revised and made it more sophisticated in its application but it is still the same thing. Twenty years of this type of public and television/movie education and you have a very malleable adjustable public. Especially the younger emotional generations coming up in this system.

Thanks,
Orangetom

During the last presidential election here in the United States one of the candidates uttered this emotionally charged statement.

"He played on our fears!!!!!!!"

This is textbook "get on the bandwagon" technique.
To be able to play on peoples fears and transfer the blame to someone else. This works well on a emotionally charged public which lives for its next emotional fix from their control agent or handler.

The other marker or index of control is to compare someone to "Hitler" this is your automatic cue to "get on the bandwagon" I cannot count the number of times our senators or represenatives have used this comparison to get the public on a bandwagon.

Make a note of who and what partys use this emotional technique the most. Both partys will use it but some much more than others because of the make up of thier voters lends itself more to its use or misuse. Remember ...mature people with real life experiences are not so easily put on the emotional string by either party.
Control issues are very important to the body politic. This is just a few example of the techniques used by them. Perhapsed other posters know of more.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Fuh real! yes Population control is alive and kicking not only in the Nazi era, but Today, it reminds me of what I posted before, The Masses will Believe a lie, so true.. Look at what's happening in the world today. Massive propganda of all sorts. But you know what humans naturally become too complacent when everything's rosy. It at that time they move in and take control, of you

I never watch sports on the tube.
I dont read the sports page in the newspaper. It is the first part of the paper I discard. I am just not into the Gods and demigods of sports. I would rather read a book. You folks want to watch sports..no problem...Just not for me to jump on that bandwagon. Better things to do with my time..even if its just relaxing in my lazy boy with a good book.
While I watch movies ..I am also aware that the availability of good movies is pretty rare..outstanding actors and actresses too. I suspect that this is why the rehashing so often of olde movie plots is done today. Running out of original material or good imagination.
I am also aware that people have tried to form new movie production companys away from California but the political/propaganda value of Hollywood discourages this. Seems to me that some years back companys tried to make movies out of Florida but I dont think it got too far. Other attempts are being made but I believe the problem is in the distribution buisness not the movie making buisness per se. I would like to see several independents make progress in this arena and therefore the subject material will be more truthful...not propaganda or the party line.
Now that I think about it...was not Mel Gibsons film "The Passion " totally made and distributed by him??? Heavily discouraged by the Hollywood/political cliques by reason of fear mongering??? Fear techniques. Ahhhhhhhh!!!! There is that fingerprint again. "He played on our fears!!!" See what I mean..its standard rhetoric. Your supposed to jump on the bandwagon. As I recall the fears never came to fruitition ....and made these "experts" look quite inept. So much for experts.
Anyway...folks..I hope this is enough info to get some of you questioning what you see around you daily.

Thanks,
Orangetom

But the masses refuse to listen.... and they continue on with their lives, complainin and complaining when the truth is there in plain sight for all to see.

Wow well said orangetom1999

Not too many ppl on ATS seem to understand that concept as well as you seem to.
It pervades our lives on every level from what we consider the "best" product on the shelf to supporting a war that is obvioulsy for reasons other than advertised (aren't all wars that way?).

Problem is the folks who are being conned help to perpetuate the "bandwagons". We see that here on ATS all the time. Once the ball is rolling you can gaurantee the jumpers will run with it cause of the fear of not fitting in. Just like fashion we are psycologicaly forced by our peers to get on that bandwagen or risk being outcast as one of those "wackos" "geeks" "nerds" "loners" or whatever nice term we invent to control peoples free expression.

How many ppl are pressured into likeing sports for fear of not being man enough? Or war or blah blah blah...If we are really so free why are there so many stereotypes? Fear, the most easily controlled emotion.

You see the powers that be learned from experience (WWII nazi's particularly) that psycological control is more effective, cleaner and safer than physical control, but the aim and outcome is the same.

How many times do you hear "They're not dragging you to the gaulag for talking out against blah blah blah"?...Cause they don't have to anymore!

the people will have you hang for speaking for what you truly believes, but I always believ economic wealth in a way, guarantees abit, freedom from govt control, take for example, you have the economy in your hands.

Yet we can look at it from the other side.
Ok, there are smart people - like we here - who do have their own head to think with. When someone tries to manipulate them, they will answer with a smile and do things their own way.
But there are also people who can not think on their own, those who use their head for eating into it. Maybe they need someone who would be telling them what to do, how to vote, what to buy, etc. ?
The other question is - were they born that helpless way or were they "educated" into it?
My guess would be that they were "educated". If you keep telling a kid "do this. eat that. this is good, that is bad. that is possible and that is not, you're and empty space", etc. when he grows up, he would already have a habit of thinking as he is told, rather then on his own. And he will looks for someone to keep manipulating him, to keep telling what to do.
Now, but what if kids would not be "educated" that way? Would they become true charismatic personalities, thinking with their own heads?
I don't know... yet I also don't think that anything here, in this world, happened by accident. Probably if someone is ready to be a personality he would become one no matter what, and if someone has come to this world to be a piece of a mass - he will be a piece of a mass no matter what.

R.

And that's why Public Education on a whole was a pretty bad idea, look at the current rate of failure. even those who comes out of the system each year, they have not a faintest idea of how the world around them works, but I guess they have ben educated that way.. you see?

I agree with your premise that many conform to not be labeled this or that word...whatever the fashionable word of conformity is...geek...nerd...et al.
To be part of the herd is to be someone....someone who counts.
So few can see that this is not so while staying on the tredmill running and running and running going so little distance but someone else is controlling the speed and direction. The buisness of fashion is a good example of this. Not really much originality going on here in fashion. Alot of timely recycling happening to another generation of peoples unawares ..all thinking that they are the originals. Politics is very much like fashion....till you peel back the veneer and look underneath. Alot of things in this world are like this..designed for the unawares to never look underneath the veneer so as to never see how corrupt it really is.
Ive posted this one before on ATS. A friend of mine like me has a electric distiller to distill city water. His water is well water but he distills it to purity. His children in health class spoke out against flouridation when the issue came up in class announcing that their water was distilled not flourided or city water...and that in large quantitys flouride was a poision.
Next thing you know the school psychologist was paying a visit to him at his home and speaking to him about what he was teaching the children and how it is going against the class subject material.
When he later told me about this I told him they can do a profile on the kid at school anytime...you know they are here to do a profile on you dont you ???? Someone filed a report on you to someone else. Why else would a school psychologist bother to come to your house.??? Your not normally that important!! I dont know if he fully believed me or not.
I believe alot of people were educated into this line of thinking..sort of like a coin...it has two sides...but most people are never educated to this..they think that one side is all there is. The side with the heads on it ..they dont know there is a side with tails on it. The tails side of the coin is attempting quite successfully to control boths sides. Our view of history , politics , economics, religion et al is a example of this..mostly looking at it from the heads side because this is what we think is all there is.
I watch the posters on this forum making their blogs...most of it is the standard mantra type thinking ..not much of originality going on. Much of it is quite hatred bound. Its like someone has them on a string they are all preaching the same hatred mantra. Some of them accusing others who dont conform of doing hatred themselves. It is a clear fingerprint of thier religion/politics/economics. Also a fingerprint of who or what has them on the string. Even some of the moderators are on this string. Amazing.
Ive made this statement before ...that politics is in fact a religion and de-evolving to its true nature...not even hiding it anymore to those with even a modicum of ability to think. It is quite obvious to me that many in these rooms are devoutly zealous deciples to this religious belief system called politics. They are hell bent on selling thier souls to the body politic and also hell bent on selling the souls of others to this same body. This is a very ferverent religion. A devout belief. Talk about on a string. Wow!!!!!
Yes it is a bandwagon.
The reason psychological control is used by the powers that be is they have learned, unlike the Soviet Russians and others, it is much more effecient than putting a policeman or a control agent everywhere. People are pre conditioned to this line of thinking therefore this line of behavior.
Control what people think and you control how people behave. Much easier and more effecient than at bayonet point. Though I think this may change at some time in the future. Americans are not by nature as moldable/malleable to this dogma as Europeans and others. An awful large lot of Americans when you cross them wrongly will give you the "social finger " and tell you to get lost...at gunpoint if you dont get the message and politicians know this. We are very different from alot of the world in this regard. The powers that be dont like armed Americans...physically or spiritually. Especially Americans who know this difference between us and the rest of the world.
You know, Anok, there must be something wrong with me ..as I was never much of a conformer even at a young age. Never fit in with the crowd. I was not particularly bright ..still arent ...but its just that over time I watched enough people and came into contact with people who taught me some things to look for in peeling back some of the veneers that cover our mantle of "civilization." Alot of people dont like this because they like the veneer..they love it ..no matter how sick or corrupt it is underneath or behind the tails side of the coin. You try to take thier thinking underneath the veneer to what is really under there .and many of them recoil and hate you for it. No matter how true it is they will avoid it for a lifetime.
I think you get the point.

Thanks,
Orangetom

This control you are talking about Crusader!!! To change this is a matter of revolution.
The obvious aim of this control is to keep you right where you are serving this system. Never stepping out of it.
Revolution requires that you be aware of this control and how it is used or misused.

The facts are that when people by and large determine for themselves that living under a system is more expensive than changing it there will be a change.
The aim of Government or control agents is to make you believe that overturning it is more expensive than living under it. It is simple economics.
The historic trend of all governments or control agents is to raise the bar on you to extract more and more of your prodcution to themselves while continuing to get you to believe that change or revolution is more expensive than giving in to it. This is the purpose of our Education, system, body politic, and religious institutions. To support this system and get you to belive that it is more expensive to resist than make changes.

One more important item here...there is no gaurantee that when you make a change that the new change will be any better than the last corruption you have replaced. Historically very few revolutions/changes have resulted in the new system being better than the olde one. Often, historically , it is just a continuation of the olde system under a new management. Only a very small number of times in history has this ever resulted in something better for the people themselves. Usually it has been changed for a result benifiting a minority of feudal lords at the expense of the public...seen or unseen. Beware!!!!!

Thanks,
Orangetom

But as we can see in revolutions past and present, that sometimes change can be worse than what was originally going on(if you know what I mean) Check out the French Revolution: There was massive revolt by the Jacobins against the Royalty , and the throng who participated in the revolution, screamed, and bellowed: Equality, fraternity, and you know the rest.............

What did they get in return? A Dictator, called NAPOLEAN...

Precisely...thanks,
Orangetom

Notice my first post on this thread.
The part where I expressed my views on the history of the talk show format on television begining back with Phil Donahue and his emotionally grabbing the audience. Phil Donahue is famous for sticking his microphone in the face of one audience member and then noticing another and running wide open across the audience to stick his microphone in the face of another to keep the emotional jerk off going again ..for another rousing round of this wildlife!! I call this format ....."public masterbation"...or how to emotionally jerk off the public. Pardon the crudity but it appropriatelly applies.
As I stated this format was carried on through another generation of "victimizers" pandering to the audiences emotional needs. Jenny, Sally Jessie,Montel,and a host of others some who have fallen by the wayside now.
Nevertheless this talk show emotional format went on long enough to program the public into responding by clues and cues to perform to the proper stimulus. This concept was not lost on the body politic. It is my opinion that the body politic is constantly monitoring and looking for the next control device to which the public will correctly respond on cue. There are teams and social/psychological "experts" constantly looking to identify these control trends or devices.

Enter Cindy Sheehan........... The rest is history. The American public has now been programmed to respond correctly to a "victim " scenerio and give the proper responses or at least stay mute and let her and her facilitators or handlers play through. Every one else must stand pat.
This is called a "default setting". Like this computer the defaults automatically take over and the program runs the way it is supposed to because you are dealing with a "victim". They must be allowed to play through while everyone else stands still and mute. How dare you show original thought and speak out against this default.
Do you see how this is done...begining way back with Phil Donahue and his "victim" format. Continuing on to more "victimization" and makeovers for second place at public expense ...through the Rikki Lake format as this technique was refined by the body politic. This is one reason other than ratings why the talk show format is so useful and popular. This format conditions people especially women voters to respond predictably to a stimulus especially in a voting booth..and especially in high electorial vote states where women make up a huge bulk of the voters. You have been properly groomed and controlled to behave predictably through grabbing you by the emotions. Understand now!!! Women and femminine men are the perfect cannon fodder for this political control/vote grabbing technique. No thinking required...all emotions.
Emotionally you have been properly groomed to let others play through.
I can assure you that Cindy Sheehan , Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and a host of others are well aware of this grooming and the mechanism by which it is accomplished to allow them to play through. You can put Hollywood in with this bunch too. Remember this when you see Hollywood "Experts" preaching to you on public issues. They will often use the default settings and emotions.
The question is are you smart enough to spot it when the body politic uses it to achieve thier control over you?? To put you under their default settings.?? Can you spot it. Can you yourself ..change the default settings.???? Have you got what it takes to do this??? Or will you properly jump through the hoops held out for you to properly/predictably perform.
I have had this technique used on me in many of the rooms on this ATS/PTS/BTS format and on occasion I will post back as to the poor technique used and suggested that these people try simple reason and logic not emotionalism/histronics on me because I can get this drivel on television. They often become very irate with me or change the subject matter. This is usually because they cannot operate outside of the emotional arena. This is also accompanied by labeling and name calling rather than debate the points I bring up. I have actually had people tell me they are finished talking to me...period. Never will they debate the issues you bring up..but go off on thier emotional jag.
Learn to spot this technique in politics, education and in debates in this format...you will see it often. It will pass itself off as excellence and intelligence..it is neither. It is about control!!! Remember this!!!!!

Thanks,
Orangetom

I have been spending some time musing on your post and I must agree.
It is my belief also that most people have been educated into it. Trained and groomed. They are not aware that their is another side to the coin..they think there is only one side.
This is a very important clue to the nature of our educational system..something is missing from it..and most are not aware of this concept. It is hidden from them that something is missing,concealed from them.
If you go back into History books and read certain concepts ...you will have to go outside what passes for history and thinking to do this...you will find the concept of "Occult". or Occult religions.
This word Occult means...concealed, hidden,esoteric. Or as they themselves often say. "I will hail....ever conceal and never reveal!!" This is the true nature of the body politic. Always..and ever.!! No matter what party is in power or out of power. And remember...Bratok...politics pays for our educations. Got the point.??? They control what is taught and not taught. What is concealed and not concealed!!

As to your point about things being accidental....I dont think so either. When I go down any street in this country ..it is obvious that the street was laid out on a plan or design ..meaning there was a designer. It was not random rolling of the dice. The body politic is the same way..things dont happen by accident ..but by design.
Occasionally they make mistakes or oversights. The election of Jesse Ventura seems to be one of them. I believe he was never meant to win in Minnessota. Its just that the public was so fed up with the poor performance of the two dominant partys that they would elect anyone not of those two partys. To me the proof of this was that after Jesse Ventura won Ross Perot broke up his party to limit its effectiveness and ability to win anymore elections. Also to me the real purpose of Ross Perot's party was to bleed votes off of one party leaving the field open and clear for another party , the democrats , to play through. Ross Perot was a default setting. This is standard political technique. Hence Ross Perot was never really supposed to put candidates into public office. Since Jesse Ventura, none has made it into dominant public offices.
Anyway ..you get my point. Not accidental ...it must be controlled. Controlling how the public thinks and analyzes things is very important.
Dont worry about reaching masses of people with this idea. Just a few people who can teach others, who can teach others, who can teach others is sufficient. This keeps much outside of the main control mechanism and makes it very difficult for the controllers to identify who is who for more control. This is the wonderful thing about computers and blogs. Obviously it is having some effect. It also keeps much outside of polling numbers...another method of control.
Polls are not for the purpose of reporting thinking but getting one on the herd mentality. You are abnormal if you dont reflect these numbers. I dont like polls myself..they are for propaganda purposes ..not independent thinking.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Well, before the advent of mass media people knew how to think for themselves.. That's why, long ago, there were massive revolts and overthrow of governments, Kings, dictators, tryants, etc... Because people think. As i pointed out in my last post, on the French Revolution: there was dissent, widespread, distrust, by the masses for Royalty. well, for those who do not know.. the Masons, yes the Free and accepted masons, played an integral part in this grand scheme of things.. well more of that later...

The mass media has numb the senses of people , and has caused them not to think, also there's widespread, censorship in the media, so you are only given What THEY think you need to know....

Also religion has a big part to play in controlling the masses..... check out the last presidential election and you will see what i am talking about..

Over and out until.... next post..

Thankyou Orangetom..,

You've only got to look at politics and it's labels to realise it's all controled for our consumption.

We have left wing, right wing, democrap and conserva#e, communism, fascism. Most ppl think that's ALL there is, no possibilities outside those labels.
And ppl label themselves from these minimal choices and think they're so clever and smug and know what's good for the rest of us.

It's all designed to keep us from thinking there is any other possibility.
Look what happens when any person or movement that doesn't fit the excepted form of thinking and is a threat to the status quo.
That person or movement is first off discredited some way using the media to spread lies to the general public.
Some examples...
The hippie/peace movement of the 60's. People were starting to question too much, throwing off the shackles of "normal" society too much.
So what happens? Conveniently along comes Charlie Manson (who was not a hippie btw) and he becomes, in the media, the poster boy for the hippie movement, discrediting it and thus killing any further advances it could have made. The hippies of course were not fooled, but the general public was.

The Punk movement 1976, same thing, people were thinking for themselves, questioning too much, looking at alternatives to a life under the thumb of the rich and powerful. The rich and powerful were shaking in their boots.
Again conveniantly along comes Sid Vicous (far from being a real think for yourself punk) and the rest is history.
Waco ditto, it goes on and on.

Drugs also play a big part, spread lies in the media about drug taking hippies and those that follow a movement after the media gets a hold of it thinks that what they should do to be hippies. Forget working for change, just take drugs.

I'm not saying those ppl didn't do what they did, it's just that the media picks up on the negative and all of a sudden all hippies are Carles Mansons and all punks are Sid Viciouses. And then you get the 2nd wave (the sheep) that usualy comes after the media blitz who live up to what the media portrayed that movement as, not what it really was to begin with. That's why you get druged up punks who wear studed leather and have bad attitudes. That's not what it was about in the beggining. Punk was a media invented term anyway, the first punks didn't call themselves that.

The media is used very efectively to keep us in line and to suppress any threat to the system.

[edit on 29/10/2005 by ANOK]

well what alot of this seems to be about is image.

The image you present of your group or party.

Very often when there are 'Anarchists' out demonstrating, I know what the paper and magazine front pages will look like over the next few days.

Whether there really was much trouble or not, or whether they were really anarchists or not or whether it was the anarchists who started it or not.
None of those things matter.
Most of the healines will be something along the lines of 'Anarchists clash with police' or 'Anarchists trash city center'

The point is too make them conform to a sterotype. Anarchists sterotype is that they are not very clever or civilized and are often violent and disrespectful. That implies their opinions are wrong

Groups is how you control people. 'control and divide' backwards or 'order out of chaos.' Google 'psychology ingroups out groups'

Seperate people into a group, even false groups like nationality that really are meaningless. You have two groups of people. They do not necessaraly hate each other. Now psychology experiments reveal that bias towards either group creates the opposite effect in the other group.
For example, loving your country automaticaly creates a hatred for those which are not your country. Even if you dont say that, it creates a bias by loving the first group.
So you can program people through their emotions to love or hate others, either by teling them to love those they belong to or by telling them to hate those they dont belong to, either is just as good.

So in WW2, "people in the british group, Love your country', 'serve your country" etc.
At the same time as telling them to hate the other lot, the 'Huns' those evil do'ers, the axis of evil and hatred.
Double whammy, very effective. You cant do it if the groups dont exist in the first place. Divide and control.

Anyway, image is everything in our society. Well almost everything.

"Order from Chaos"

A very intresting statement. Order from Chaos Odo ob Chao...

does this imply that the order is arranged as is the chaos???? To achieve a predetermined result.???

I dont remember what the summits were ..some kind of economic summit in some western state...but it became obvious to me that both events were planned..the summit obviously and the anarchists who violently protested the economic summit about a year or so back.
I recall seeing the exact senerio you posted many times. After numerous exposures to this stereotype..I am forced to do exactly what you describe..ask myself if both sides are a type of Hegelian dialectic. Designed to reach a compromise of sorts..antethisis.

By the way..AdamJ..I have that very statement on a book in my private library. Ordo ob Chao.. Order from Chaos. It is titled Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike. In places a very intresting book if one understands some of what one is reading.

Thanks,
Orangetom