How to control People

Sorry for the delay in responding to your post on the bottom of page 12.

This thread of control has taken some intresting turns in my abscence. Very intresting turns.

In answer to your question of "what then" what becomes of us..what do we become.

This one too is simple. the answer is in the Faith. Faith with a capital "F".

I was plucked out of this corruuptable world..not my my will..but by His will. I had nothing to do with it. I ..in fact tried to go the other way. I tried everything I could think of to get out of this Belief. Yet at some level deep down ...I knew it was the correct Belief. So you see..think2much..it was never up to me...but up to Him ...the work done was by Him...not me.
This means by Faith ..what then or what becomes of us is determined by Him ..not me. I have nothing to do with it. This is called Soverignty. Another word for this is Soverign Grace. Soverign Grace is not what is taught in most churchs or by most preachers. What most teach is a variation of free will. WE are the determiners..we decide..we put our moneys in the box..we have input into what will happen to us both in this body of clay and in the afterlife. This is not Soverign Grace.
Soverign Grace..says that we all deserve hell and damnation..and rightly so. God would be perfectly just in condemming us all to hell and damnation for His purposes. God has chosen us by His will for His purposes to Save us out of our natuarl corruption by His Blood...once again for His purposes.
Any variation of Soverign Grace..is a return to paganism...you do..you decide..you put your moneys in the box and purchase your way to what you think you deserve. This is the pagan/occult pattern of works. Working by degrees to demigodness.
I do not determine what will happen to me..nor do I worry about it at all. It is up to him. Those who are elected...chosen ..made acceptable to Him are "Predestined to be conformed to the image of his will. Not by our will but by His will for His purposes.

Predestined...Pre ...before....destined....the destination...the end..where you would wind up..the destination...

None of these things are determined by me but by His Soverign will. So ..think2much ..I dont worry about it at all. This is by Faith ...I do this. This is what it means to be of Faith. To believe ..to be living..to believe. To be alive...not just physically alive..but to be alive..reborn in Faith.
This is one reason I dont spend alot of time in Prophecy as do so many ..its not up to me either ..but up to Him. You see..it is simplicity itself. The simplicity of the Gospel.
You see, think2much, I know and believe I deserve hell and damnation..and rightly so. This leaves only one Way for me...Faith. Only one...Way...not a multitude of ways. All religions are not the same religion. Not possible.

This knowlege is very dependent on which version of the Word you study..for in many of the new translations this is altered ...many subtle changes have been made to question or cast doubt on the core doctrines of His Word...as was known in years past by our forefathers. These new versions of the Word are made for the express purpose of casting doubt or uncertainty on the Soverignty of God, The virgin birth, the Blood..the Oneness of God..and many other core doctrines. This too is a control mechanism and very subtlelly used on those unawares and not under good tutorage in the Word. It is for the purpose that you would not ever learn or know of this difference. It is for the purpose of substituting works for Grace...the very same pattern done by the hebrews in ancient times..and being repeated by many who claim the name of Christ today. It is also to substitute another god for The Lord Jesus the Christ for remission of sins.
I could take this further...but it is not appropriate for this control forum...though it has much bearing when taken to its logical conclusion.

As to your comment about Floride...I will tell you that I have a electric distiller. I have had one for about 10 years. They are a bit expensive but my drinking water and my ice is made from this water. I have managed with my mechanical and electrical background to keep one going. It makes very good water. I love iced tea and my tea ..stays clear instead of clouding up quickly when refrigerated.
I managed to pick up a second distiller at a yard sale..and very inexpensively too. Repairing this one I put it on line here as it recovers much faster than my olde original one.
Thinking about the technique of some inline water filters to use silver in the elements...I put a pure silver Engelhardt Prospector in the holding tank. I dont know if it will help but it is there and I can spare one ounce of pure silver.

Suzy..your post on missing children ..struck home. I am going to say something here not intended to alarm... Please do not think I am trying to be alarmist..or nuts either. It is not so. I say this because I am surmising that you are thinking or have thought along similar lines..perhapsed without having the insight or background on which to draw but have come to a similar conculsion.
When I watch television ...or go through the checkout stands a the local store or pharmacy ..I sometimes look carefully at the magazines the formats the techniques ..et al. I am deeply aware that someone is trying and very determined to return us to open paganism...the worship of sex and open sexuality...this conclusion is inescapable. It is begining to come out in the open.
This is part and parcel of a religious dogma...it is not accidental. It is deliberate. It has its origins in Pre Flood religions and was carried over from the line of Ham...one of the sons of Noah. These traditions of men..come in a multitude of varieties but one fingerprint easily recognizable in most of them is rampant runaway sexuality ..open...public.
The attempt appears to bring us back to what is called a New Age..which is a watch word..a code for a return back to pre flood conditions..and religion.
This is what I have picked up on ..in my study of the Word ..contrasted by what was learned about occult religions..by way of the knowlegable preachers with whom I have been under tutorage. This pattern can be found in the Word if one reads carefully.
What I have detected is that since the advent of the Christian era (Anno Domini), in the year of our Lord, this dogma has gone underground. It has been attempting since the late 1800s to make a comeback and in the last 40 years seems to have accelerated quickly with the help of many governments secretly pushing this positoin. These governments today are no longer friendly to Christians and are openly pushing and promoting antichristian policys. The depth to which these people are entrenched in government and the various political partys would shock most people. People must remain neutral and "out of control".
Remember this too..Governments fund and finance our public education systems. Little wonder what they are teaching in public schools is so effective in causing confusion among our children.

What you describe about missing children is part and parcel of this fingerprint of which I too describe. Much of it is occult in nature. Not all but much. Some of it is merely ..from statistical standpoint..children moved about in custody disputes...divorces/seperation etc.
The problems quietly admitted in certain circles is that the statistics .the total of missing children...cannot be accounted for by most of the breakdowns used in analyzing them. There is a missing factor there ..which does not accout for all the missing children. I first came across this information when speaking to a preacher out in the Western United States who had attended one of these police seminars as a guest. This information was part of the seminar. He was quite disturbed by this implication as was I when it was revealed to me.
What you are alluding to ,Suzy,is part and parcel of the most radical form of this religion but is attempting to make a comeback through different groups today. It is quiet at first but it will snowball as these groups work in the background till they can gain a foothold politically in cloistered protected enviornments like colleges and schools...eventually politics...politics too being a type of cloistered enviornment. This too is a control mechanism being worked on a uninformed public.


Thanks for your post Suzy. You too think2much.
Orangetom

Yep, let's stick with distilling water, screw flouriride, I hardly drink water these days, mostly juices.

I do not determine what will happen to me..nor do I worry about it at all. It is up to him. Those who are elected...chosen ..made acceptable to Him are "Predestined to be conformed to the image of his will. Not by our will but by His will for His purposes.

Oh I would agree 100% it is by His Grace and not by our works....and His grace is sufficient for me...

(however anyone saved by grace I would think...hope...would be moved to do good works anyway)

so while I agree with everything you've stated, and believe in what I read in KJV on the subject, I just wanted you opinion on what does happen to us...

basically I feel you say you do not know, it isn't for you to know, as you have no control over those factors so it doens't matter to you...you say it is up to Him and your faith is there...again, I agree but I do not think he has saved us-by the blood of his own son for naught.

I do not boast of my own works or of my own value to Him in anyway-we are naught-except were are children of God...and then we mustn't flog ourselves continually as unworthy servants or we crucify His son repeatedly in vain...we were not worthy, but the atonement redeems us from our unworthy state-it is by Grace, His grace-which is sufficient for me, but I will not refuse to grow and learn and discover the possibilities of the knowledge even the apostles eluded to when they chastized their baptized followers for still needing to be taught and rehearsed the basics of salvation over and over again when there was greater wisdom and knowledge and understanding to be had...but none were ready...and thus Christ had taught not to cast their pearls before swine...

I just had to break free from a thinking that felt too much like unrighteous dominion by a way of religious control that tells me constantly that I am nothing, I deserve hell, I should be constantly mortally ashamed and humbled and in fear of God and only by my faith in Him and my hatred of my sinful self can I enter into his presence with hope and faith...flog myself mentally and spiritually instead of rejoicing in truth-to continually feel unworthy seems an entrapment of the opposition to stagnate spiritual growth

or that more appealing control to eat drink and be merry for we are saved anyway...do what you want when you want-you're saved anyway-or you can buy your way into His grace through good works or actual monetary means-literally pay for your own sins...

I think there is a happy medium -LOL-I think I'm finding it-though admittedly my morals have run amok this past year when challenged most-I've faltered, but in the long run I'll learn my lesson and I know who is in control

now to find that happy medium in the world at large...to know what factors-besides religion control us, influence us, manipulate us...the government, the media...and what role does the oppossion play in it ALL...and to what ends? Thats my quest now.

Oh Orangetom, I am so glad you understand the truth of it. I learned the truth, first hand, from early childhood and throughout my life have paid many 'worldly' penalties for not accepting that 'they've' won the ultimate battle. They don't like survivers who don't renounce God, so create many woes to tempt you to do so.

Particularly over the last decade there has been a subtle, and so, very effective, 'advertising champaign' calling 'them' out of the closet. When the horror stories of their practices do get media attention, the thing that most stands out, is that THEY ARE GETTING AWAY WITH IT.

It's no longer a great secret that costs you your life if you share it with those 'outside', but common knowledge that many are given a voice to "explain", "defend", "promote", without fear, often in the form of convicted, unrepentant baby #%#@ers interviews being the 'last words' of a 'news report'.

In recent years I even had a 'commitee' of 'them' directly offer me the chance to 'save' myself by accepting their 'faith', along with numurous individuals doing the same.

Yes, the "New Age Movement" is just the "Old Lie" sticking it's ugly head up, yet again. It's also adopted by many women's groups that support pagan and child sex when they're not selling 'healing' and 'magic'.

Fluroides, and all these pills are something else? They are all indirect means to control the masses. But you know what, have you all remember what happen in Rwanda, in 1994? The use of the media, and propganda, to cause the genoicide? any links, anyone?

Yes..Praise God...Halelujah.

Thank you Suzy and Think2much for your posts.

This time in reply to your post first think2much.... I am so glad to hear that you too use a KJV Text. I too prefer the AV1611 or King James Version. I have one of these Franklin Electronic Bibles which has both the King James Version and the new international version. I keep it in my book bag which I take to work daily so as to always have it close. I dont like the niv, rsv, asv, and others but prefer my KJV. I do however ..since I was taught by elders often double check a verse going to the niv to see how and why they have altered these particular verses. Eventually some things become plain to see when you are able to connect many of the verses back and forth. It is astonishing the deception they have used in some verses ..in the modern changes since the advent of the Brook Foss Wescott and Fenton John Anthony Hort translation ..aka...Wescott and Hort.
Think2much I do works today ..because I am His..not to become His. I dont think much of works as taught by many preachers. Any merits I may have are His for many of the things I do and dont do today...were inconcievable before my conversion. The thing that still astonishes me ...daily is why He would have chosen me..to be the recipient of this knowlege. For it is a marvel to me some of the things that have happened in the years since my conversion...since the walk down His Way.
I will tell you something and as I tell this to you and Suzy... I hope you dont think me crazy for formating it in this manner. I am aware that there are in this world not many of us who believe in the manner we do or for the reasons we do. True Christains like the Hebrews of olde ... have always been a minority surrounded by the wildlife of this world or what I call wildlife in its natural habitat...natural man. This has never changed and if you read history carefully you will see it. The very history itself which we read..is often a deception as to the true nature of the participants in it. Most of the history I read is of one pagan group fighting another pagan group for power and control in this world both in peace and in war. This is not accidental. Most peoples havent a clue. This continues right up to this very day.
Christains are the Salt of the earth..not the sugar. Salt is what holds back corruption. Salt always has. The attempt ..even here in this forum ..ATS is to mix sugar with salt..leven with unleven ..new wine with olde...it wont work. This world is trying to make us sugary ...and weaken the salt . It must be the right Salt...with a capital "S". When you have the opportunity to see Salt do Its work ..it is a wonderous thing to behold.
The control mechanism is to weaken the Salt in hopes of the Salt losing its savor.

Suzy..I percieve that you understood exactly what I was getting at. I am glad of this.
By Grace I have learned something clearly. Proper people ..do not ever define themselves by thier sexuality ...ever. They do not ever define themselves by sex or sexuality but by their Lineage , their occupations, or some great work they have done and left to posterity...never thier sexualilty. Only pagans do this type of definition by sexuality. Once again it is the fingerprint of their religion and the name of thier god. I have posted this concept to many in these ATS boards and I have yet to get a answer or objection to this position. It is totally avoided in favor of "victimization" and play through default settings.
One has to go to public school and be educated into learning to define ones self by sexuality as a signature of greatness..as a mark of excellence in ones portfolio. Only public education can dumb down a person enough to believe in this dogma.
Yet ironically we have a group of peoples living among us for whom this is their only claim to fame...to excellence and experts think this is normal. Even many preachers are so dumb they dont even get it. Astonishing!!!! By the way..this boasting and dumbing down ..is of works. A type of salvation by works. Watch them closely. Peel back the vineer and look underneath. If you understand this ..you know clearly the name of their god and the rightiousness they seek to establish.
Once again they seek as a method of control...to bring back the pre flood religions. Politics , education, merchandizing etc are all in on it and it is a religion in all of these venues.

Thanks for your posts and encouragement. Halelujah. Praise His Holy Name. May the God of our Fathers watch over you and your houses.

Orangetom

you know how they say be careful for what you ask for ...as you just may get it...

I'm on overload...

I want to "see" *everything* with my eyes wide open... but I don't like...or don't always want to really accept.... everything I then do see...

now, even when I look in the mirror

...getting scarey...

I told you-it's been a rough year...not getting any easier...

maybe I should pick up my KJV...sadly it's gotten little use this year...

Orangetom, from reading your posts, i hereby deduce that u are a christian ain't I right? Yes? if it's Truth, what do you think about the media's influence, and role in promoting promusicity, among young people, and as well, as the disemination of misinformation in regards to issues such as premarital sex.??

Bless

I have to interject here... when my friends daughter at age 9 dressed up as a slut-with belly showing and makeup...and it was deemed entirely appropriate by her mother because she was actually just costumed as pop artist "Brittany Spears"...I had to go HUH????????????????????

and yep, the kid went out and roamed the streets so appropriately costumed...

so then I looked into the marketing for her music and more so her merch...and it was geared toward younger girls!

Oh I don't even think I should get started on the media promoting sex to youngsters....like my son wanting "kidsbop" music which is kids singing songs...well...entirely inappropriate for kids to be singing half of the time...but it's POP music...so its all ok...

yeah right whatever...

I had to cover my sons eyes when they suddenly were glued to the Tv tonight at the sight of the Victoria Secrets models advertising for their upcoming show...

the media promote sex to youngsters? naaaaaa

you posted:

"Orangetom, from reading your posts, i hereby deduce that u are a christian ain't I right? Yes? if it's Truth, what do you think about the media's influence, and role in promoting promusicity, among young people, and as well, as the disemination of misinformation in regards to issues such as premarital sex.??

Bless"

Excellent question you posted there and very appropritate for this forum.

I think the medias influence is part of the problem. The very issues they promote they are as good as a pimp or a madam in a whorehouse...No sorry I mispoke myself...they are like politicians. There are actually whores out here who have more honor than the body politic and the media.

In my opinion the media and its shilling for the body politic gives whores a bad name. With a whore you know what you are getting. Not so with the media or politics.
Sorry for the crudity but this is pretty much how I see it. Does that clear it up???

Dont misunderstand me Crusader..I am not in favor of whoredom of any type and the word whoredom among those of Knowlege covers a huge area...more than the media or politics ever wants you to know or be able to analyze for yourself.

The media to me shills for the body politic..both republican and democrat in this country ..in most countrys they do this ..they are a intregal part of the body politic. They are one and the same.
When you look at the history of men..through out the centurys..you become aware of something about politics...its is often the selling of ones soul for power and glory. Better yet ...it is the selling and buying of the souls of others for glory and power.
What does this tell you about the media so obviously shilling for the body politic..in any country. Whose souls are they buying and selling..and to and for whom.??? Think it through carefully..then throw the topic of sexuality in thier in regards to the media and see what pops out.

Good question Crusader.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Your post concerning your friends daughter made me aware of something I saw a few years back which highly insulted me.

The pictures/video of that young girl Jon Bonet Ramsey...where her mother had her made up for a beauty contest ..they were just awful. I mean awful. She was made up like a adult woman. It was obviously her mothers fingerprint not Jon Bonets fingerprint. I could not believe someone would do this to her daughter for a beauty contest. What on earth are these people thinking????
It gave me the impression that the young girl was being prostituted out like a cosmo girl on the cover of cosmopolitan magazine....as merchandize. It was awful. I was quite shocked.

Thanks,
Orangetom

It gave me the impression that the young girl was being prostituted out like a cosmo girl on the cover of cosmopolitan magazine....as merchandize. It was awful. I was quite shocked.

yeah orangetom and then when those girls actually escape a fate of being molested, abducted, raped, killed...then they grow up identifying only with their sexual/beauty appeal as their point of reference for self-worth...

hmmm....whats wrong with this picture...

When the ultimate purpose for controling people is to lead them to self destruction then encourageing no self control, morally, sexually, financially, is a sure fire way to reach that end. Those who let their own selfish pride keep them blind to this fact, I find are those who are spiritually deceived. Those who know it and promote it anyway, I find to be evil.

When the ultimate purpose for controling people is to lead them to self destruction then encourageing no self control, morally, sexually, financially, is a sure fire way to reach that end. Those who let their own selfish pride keep them blind to this fact, I find are those who are spiritually deceived. Those who know it and promote it anyway, I find to be evil.

But Suzy, sometimes the populace can go way out of Control, that's when they introduce drastic measures, to curb those resistance, don't you get it? and they fail at the most times, cause the ``voice of the people is the voice of God``.

i for never in my life,consider sleeping outside of marriage, I pretty young, 22 male, black man. And i mean Of course you are tempted to do alot of things, but, sometimes you must have a strong will, I don't gross myself with fashion, and all that.. Most of my time is spent reading books on topics such as these religion and spirituality, etc, estoreics, finance, like wall street journal, Forbes, Businessweek, black enterprise magazine, and Napolean Hill book, Think and Grow Rich , Rich Dad Poor Dad(yes Folks I am getting there!) Anyway, you got my point, it's what you feed your mind on, that cause you to do things as nasty and vile as what is happening now, such as bestiality, etc..

When the ultimate purpose for controling people is to lead them to self destruction then encourageing no self control, morally, sexually, financially, is a sure fire way to reach that end. Those who let their own selfish pride keep them blind to this fact, I find are those who are spiritually deceived. Those who know it and promote it anyway, I find to be evil.

oh unholy hell Suzy...

I am totally reprimanded-chastized and ashamed...

not that this is a forumn for confession...and I am not evil...but trust me...was getting there...would be if I continued in the manner I have been...and especially now if I continued while realizing what I have when I read those words...so then to help perpetuate by my own lifestyle what is being promoted to CONTROL and sell the world on self destruction

well...I'd be no better than those who control by such promotion for that end

Having gone 6 years with seeminlgy prefected self control...and then suddenly...as I joke about my life taking a hiatus from my morals...I see that I have been decieved...I was challenged by my greatest challenge yet in life...and I've failed...my hiatus has lasted a year...when I swore it would be over...next week...next week...next month...

I triumphed for 6 years over the flesh-lived in this world but not of this world...it got to a point it was as if there were a pane of glass between me and others/society...to where if I spoke to one who was in the world...I clearly felt removed from them, and their worldly worrries, woes, and endeavors...schemes and joys in debacherous living

I was greatful to be now so minded on God, my family, my church and my extended family, and very little more...with a distate and repulsion for the declining morals of society and repulsed by the media and entertainment industry...

but then it was like anything else...bit by bit -a little bit more became more tolerable to me... being in touch with my friend from some 18-19 years ago...remembering him, the good times, the music scene, the music, the rage against conformity...and suddenly this new conformity I was living seemed to become the enemy to me...

the conformity of the past...was to be resisted so as not to be CONTROLLED and owned by the world, and politics, and media, and entertainment...to break free of that and search for truth, and be an individual etc...

but now...in breaking free of my conforming life...I am breaking free not of world control...but of SELF-control...

all the while being led to believe I was getting back to something of value, something existentially missing in my life...

it was just a little at first...and then my excesses grew...my desires and needs grew and were unfiulfilled-insatiable...

now mind you having been nealry puritan in my morals before hand...I did know better...but excused my behaviour...my new thought processes...and I was going to return to my more exemplary moral thinking and living...soon...just as soon as I got some things out of my system...gained control again...

just as soon as I could find some control...

and honestly I've been perplexed...I have not been on a drinking binge for a year or something mind you...but where I haven't drank in 6 years...I have every couple of months this year had a few beer...and where I'd not looked at pornography-I indulged a few scenes...and so on...things I'd not have done before

and my faith had not waivered in God or my beliefs and yet I lived contrary to what I should...and know it...but continue...and continue excusing it

even sought help psychologically because I can't seem to break free of what seems to be CONTROLING me...but when all is said and done...

the biggest CONTROLING factor...

is the ABSENCE OF SELF CONTROL

...in my life anymore.

This is nearly realized by me occassionally, when I bother to reach out to God for guidance...but then I turn a blind eye...and its even alluded to by my shrink...and now...blatantly spelled out before me by you Suzy...

even my new obsession with myself...my feelings, emotions, drives and sense of self.,..what kind of shape is my body in...how do my clothes fit...how ATTRACTIVE am I to the opposite sex...etc...

buying clothes and products I wouldn't normally have bought or wasted money on...and some days I'd go WTF?

And feeling more consumer driven...all the while sometimes hating the way the media and entertainment make people feel they have to look certain ways...the who advertising and reporting news to us targeting the lowest common denominator mindset would be offensive to me as it was in the past...but now in a new way

... I've been having this love-hate relationship with the world for a year now...

and I HATE myself for being so weak...so aware and yet blind-being continually repulsed by the entertainment industry...but not so much for what they perpetuate anymore...but because I hated feeling like I could not live up to what they were perpetuating and hating them for selling something unobtainable to me

WTF is my problem?

and it's funny in searching of what controls me I find it is my own lack of self control indeed...and it is a TARGET-my self control has been targeted...I knew I had been targeted, challenged and I failed...but I didn't exactly see it all for what it was...and I am begining to

and I am embarrassed for my hypocrisy and shamed...and yet even so...I sit here going...I'm going to change...definately...I'm seeing clearer now and I'm going to change...

come Jan1st...



*sigh*

Think2much, remember, the devil doesn't waste time tempting those already his. That's what I was getting at, that the ultimate controler of this current world system, is "the father of the lie" and his desire is our destruction.

All of us are deceived, tempted, confused etc. to a variety of degrees at a different times throughout our lives but SOME know this yet KNOWINGLY CHOOSE to follow satan, KNOWINGLY promoting and spreading his deceptions and temptations, FOR HIS PURPOSE and not their own human weakness, and they are evil.

The spiritual war we are fighting, is throughout our lives and like all wars, many battles can be lost yet the war still won. 'Endure' till the end, not sit back and cruise till the end.

We have to overcome the temptations calling us to,"just do it" and these calls shout and whisper at us constantly, from education to entertainment, in all aspects of life. "You deserve it", "deny yourself nothing", and the rest of the endless catch phrases that wash out the call for self discipline which require we accept there are things we should deny ourselfs, things we shouldn't do and some things, we honestly don't deserve.

As I've mentioned before, I'm well aware of the breadth and depth of my failings and that I'm yet to recognize some and still struggle with others though I'm greatfull to have had a life I can advise against, with empathy for those struggling, through the example of experience.

You too, sound to be well placed in this position, where you can share with loving honesty; been there, done that and it wasn't "all good" and some was down right deadly.

I must also say your heartfelt cry of concern for your 'current state of struggle' does more for those of us living in denial of faults still to be tackled than the call of the self righteous to be righteous. Thank you, again.



[edit on 9-12-2005 by suzy ryan]

many battles can be lost yet the war still won. 'Endure' till the end'.

ah yes...

it's funny though how aware I once was of things I've allowed myself to turn a blind eye to recently...or even if not a blind eye...justifying my rebellion in other ways...want to know some of those justifications suzy (the unintentional reprimand of your words fresh in my mind...)

"Because I deserve it"

...this has been my major justified thinking!

...you know same ol' story for everyone I suppose....because I was hurt, abandoned emotionally and somewhat physically as a child...because this happened to me and that happened to me...because it all led to the life of emotional pain I now I am faced to deal with daily...and feel ill equiped to handle when a milestone turning point comes in to one's life

(my son, whom I don't even know turned 18 recently...he was placed through adoption at birth-well one week old...so far he has no interest in his biological parents)

...all of this put me into kind of a tailspin early midlife crisis (I turned 38 Thursday) and in it all I look around at my life and though I love the kids I have...I have all this pain...and feel just a bit let down by God for not healing or intervening better...even when I KNOW it is not only a blasphemous thought, but an illogical one to...that God would spare us all pain ...how would we learn grow exercise free will to choose His way...if He dominted everything in our lives and gave us no room to make mistakes and learn from them (painfully)

I'd feel more justified if I didn't "know better"...but I do...and yet just felt "I deserved" something else...

but the conflict of living contrary to truth is just as painful as anything alse I've endured...

it's as if I don't WANT self control...but I seek other truths to justify my feelings and actions

as if I WANT to be controled-fed lies thats it's Ok to bend a little...

it's funny that you use "endure to the end" I was thinking recently...how ashamed I'd be if the world were to end tomorrow...

and yet still my resoultions are set for Jan 1 instead of today...

and I come to forumns like this seeking truths I could better find if I just blew off the dust and dove into all my scriptures again

ah...but those aren't the truths that will perpetuate my life in a lie right now are they...noooo...so I seek "other truth" don't I...and there is only ONE truth that reigns about all others...

I was once considered so wild and alternative in my youth that my conversion was respected and admired by many and my family...my family has been amazed...I am often the example set before my teen and preteen neices and nephews and they come to me saying "Did you really..." because they only have known me as such a respectable and spiritual person...in the world not of it...and can't believe I had an alternative or wild youth...

I look at them and would tell them how I envied them, their chaste lives, growing up with parents the likes I never had...and truth and knowledge of God and His Plan that I only barely knew the gist of growing up...

...and now...suddenly I've regressed...

oh but...you know...I DESERVED to indulge and cater to my selfish needs...

oh brother

...yes world...here is my head and my heart...presented of my own free will...warp it as you please!...I miss you!...I miss the path that leads to self destruction and further leads to Hell!

...the road to Heaven is too long a road of delayed gratification apparently...and I DESERVE something NOW...for ALMOST ENDURING TILL THE END

(funny thing this thinking though as I used to be highly gratified just living in truth...it sustained me daily...how is it I can ...have... too easily forgotten how that felt?)

WTF?!

I do honestly feel out of control mentally and emotionally and spiritually...and though I have managed to be somewhat physically in control...it waivers..and in it all I do feel CONTROLED beyond my ability to break free...

funny though...even though I run from Him ..I can't hide...lol I come here to learn about how the world is controled and the conspiracies of control and get my mind of my own problems and find a worlds answers to my problems...and yet...I'm faced with you suzy, and Orangetom

seems even if I run from God...he's always around somewhere

thanks guys

Think2much, the more dross we contain (have picked up) the more to burn away, it hurts in this mortal life, but every tear WILL be wiped away.

This is the thing about judgement, why we shouldn't do it, only God knows, in total, what part of our sins were inflicted on us (illness, cruel childhoods, 'brain washing' etc.) and what we have valiently fought against yet stumbled at.

He will not hold against us what we were too weak to bear in this current system of things, but tells us how to live to make it easier.

He is the perfect judge, no need for you to judge yourself, just to 'try' to make it easier on yourself, and walk out a free man when the 'trial' is over, by following His loving council.

I read MUCH passion for justice in your posts, which God loves as you can't claim to love someone if you deny them justice yet most people throw around 'love' like candy while denying justice as something too 'heavy' to handle. Trust that He is refining this Spirit, He's blessed you with, from long before you knew He knew you.

You DO deserve love, peaces and joy and so much more of it than this world's system can offer. You deserve His perfect measure of blessings and that's what He's calling you to inherit for eternity.

Pray, with that wonderful, contrite heart, open "The Good Book" and see what He wants you to understand at this tough point in your tempory, mortal life, to help set you free from the controls The Deceiver is using against you.

Thanks for your posts.

Intrestign point you make here Suzy:"

I read MUCH passion for justice in your posts, which God loves as you can't claim to love someone if you deny them justice yet most people throw around 'love' like candy while denying justice as something too 'heavy' to handle. Trust that He is refining this Spirit, He's blessed you with, from long before you knew He knew you. "

Yes..I agree..most people throw around "love " like candy. love love love. Just no obedience no obedience no obedience. My understanding of Biblical love is obedience to God. Not the love love love " our feelings " this world system wants us to put on in place of God's mantle for us. I have learned the hard way to be careful of my feelings..they can often be wrong....very wrong concerning Gods Way.

Think2much ..one of the textbook fingerprints of this world and the world system is exactly what you posted. " I deserve" This is textbook self justification. It is works.
I have seen this one in many many variations among people to justify much dishonorable conduct and even the fruits it produces being put upon others to burden them down. If you look closely you will see variations of this "I deserve " being played out in politics in the form of entitlements at the expense of others. I deserve is very popular today along with self promotion.
From a Biblical standpoint ..what would happen to us if we got what we really deserved on our own merits according to the Word???? You see how easy it is to get on the wrong treadmill and not know the difference?

Think2much I used to do exactly the pattern in which you claim to indulge. The knew that I had to earn what I deserved. It was not free or not to be at the expense of others. I never believed I deserved for others to come in and get me over he hurdles or hard spots. At some time I began to understand that somewhere in my "I deserves"...I was in the buisness of spinning my wheels...alot and very fast. I just began to sense that there was another way. One which was eluding me...wholesale.
My main problem ,Think2much, was what became known to me as a..."Stumblingstone". When I began to come to the Knowlege that there was another Way...I also became quite shocked to realize that what I thought "I deserved" didnt make two hoots of difference in this new Knowlege. Talk about a brick wall...this was inescapable when I was made acceptable..when I was converted, elected. " I deserve" was not satisfactory anymore. I couldnt get around it no matter how hard I tried and I tried hard. It wasnt getting it anymore. That is the dilemma this world works night and day to get us to ignore and join in ..to maintain the "I deserve".
I suspect that in some form or variation this is your dilemma.

This !!!! Think2much is precisely why He is a Stumblingstone..a rock of offense to the world system. He is the very Light which shines down on the "I deserve" which this world does not want shined upon in its true fleshly nature.
This Way ..this Knowlege is the very Power, the Salt which makes the jewels of this world lose thier luster.

This is a very difficult problem to cure. My recommendation for you is to Pray upon it and then Pray upon it ..and then Pray upon it more.
I can tell you with Surety that the problem does not vex me as was so in days past. I still have a kindred spirit with the flesh and will as long as I inhabit this body of clay. It is just that the allure of this kind of I deserve does not attract me as was so in the past.

I will prayfor you and that the Lord hears your prayers too.
You have quite a dilemma on your hands.
Arent you glad you dont have to go it alone?

Thanks,
Orangetom