In this topic we have all talk about ways people are control, from the media, the internet, to finance, etc. Is there ways where we can, as ATS, members avoid being on the side of the coin, i.e: be controlled by unseen forces? is there ways where we can offer resistance?


Thanks

Originally posted by crusader
In this topic we have all talk about ways people are control, from the media, the internet, to finance, etc. Is there ways where we can, as ATS, members avoid being on the side of the coin, i.e: be controlled by unseen forces? is there ways where we can offer resistance?


Thanks

Offer resistance?...I just wanted to deny ignorance...and instead I became alarmed, then placated, now nearly apathetic...

or maybe I'm just depressed today

Offer resistance?...I just wanted to deny ignorance...and instead I became alarmed, then placated, now nearly apathetic...

Could u explain? are u saying the old adage that resistance is futile? Then my friend u are stark raving mad, because if you are not a solution to the conspiracy, u are a part of the conspiracy

NO, you are mistaken...I'm neither part of the conspiracy nor do I have a solution;....in seeking what the conspiracies of control are I've been alarmed...in my paranoia, I've been now plactaed, and in my atttempt to resist I have found no way yet...therefore I feel a certain apathy towards it all now...a depressing one...so unless you have the solution...

are you part of the conspiracy? if not...then GIVE ME THE SOLUTION friend! WHere does the resistance lie?

are you part of the conspiracy? if not...then GIVE ME THE SOLUTION friend! WHere does the resistance lie?

I am yet to find out my place in this conspiracy affair, but let you know the first step towards a solution to a part of resistance, is first and foremost education, educate yourself and be knowledgeable, don't be like the bland and odinary masses, who are hoodwinked every time, Do not commit to anyone, Use the surrender tactic, Transform weakness into power(I will explain that one the next time around) See if you can make any sense to what i just Told you

Originally posted by crusader
In this topic we have all talk about ways people are control, from the media, the internet, to finance, etc. Is there ways where we can, as ATS, members avoid being on the side of the coin, i.e: be controlled by unseen forces? is there ways where we can offer resistance?

Thanks

Be aware of the power of "Group Dynamics".

Any group you belong to, big or small, loved or lumped with, can lead you to kill innocents. This old, trusted study has just again been confirmed in studying suicide bombers.

So even on a "conspiracy site", esspecially one you feel is like family, you can be led to believe killing sick babies is good and just and Christians are a danger to society because they won't support the killing of sick babies.

When the perceived majority keep repeating a lie and socially degrade those challenging the lie, only the most couragous of free thinkers won't accept and promote the lie as truth.

But as to resisting the NWO... the idea of a NWO came from the Bible.
It warns us of what to watch for.

People have been reporting those 'end times' signs in all aspects of life.

The facts of these social and political changes can't be denied so the source that lists those signs is mercilessly trashed at every opportunity with many new opportunities 'created'.

Other (nonsence) reasons for the signs, like shape shifting reptiles, are sold to people as 'more logical' in every form of mass communication, over generations.

Group Dynamics weilds it's great power (concidered the most powerfull tool for controlling people) and the nonsence becomes 'common' sence.

The Bible also tells us the NWO will form and resistors will lose their rights to any trade and mortal lives and the majority will believe it is just, sane and doing the god that the NWO will present 'evidence' for, a service.

If Jesus didn't resist Group Dynamics, Christians would be stoning women to death today, as Islamics do.

If you want to resist being led to accept injustice by Group Dynamics, freely chose to follow The One who showed us the importance of resisting 'group think' and offers the gift of the power to do so.

Suzy is correct here about the One who show us not to follow into Group Dynamics. The problem with group dynamics today is that the dynamic of any effective group is often politically and economically hijacked to a different purpose than originally started.

REmember this...education is paid for today by Politics in the public arena. They are teaching you what they want you to know. Much of this is group think steered by a dialectic..

Suggest in Group think you look up Hegelian Dialectic. Thesis, antithisis, synthesis. A action group a reaction group to the first action group ..and the synthesis or melding of the two groups on opposite conflict. This is what you often see in the news media..one group and a counter group and then the combining when desired of the two conflicting groups. After this cycle is repeated over enough you are far away from your original goal...way far away. Someone steering the conflict from behind the scenes is controlling the outcome.

THe Word is never liked by those engaged in this kind of thing because it casts a light on what they do or dont do...especially public education ..one of the controls.
This is one of the important points Suzy is making ..the Word is not liked in this world among those of reason and logic, reasonable men.....because they are in favor or a different light from a different source. Very important for you to know this line of thinking. The Light of the Word is very different from the light of mans logic and reason.

Thanks,
Orangetom

suzy ryan

I don't know...I'm still confused on the whole control thing.

Like suzy was pointing out about group thinking and the people on the baby euthanasia thread....and I really didn't really see a group thinking thing happening there for the most part. Am I blind?

I saw two particularly verbal people defending the evil of murder, and attacking those opposed and I actually got sick of it. I gave a religious POV, and I made a follow up post to that person originally asking for a religious POV, and then defended another poster because he was attacked on all angles for his humanatarian and existential views on the value of human life.

In the end, one person showed their true colors and personified the evil most were claming existed, but along the way there were those for and against it, with and without religious perspective. I was getting tired of being/feeling attacked for having a religious POV as if that somehow negated my view, or was my only reason for having an opnion against euthanasia of infants.

But what deeper issue did I miss Suzy? And how often do I miss it?

orangetom

In this group thinking I do worry about the education system too. My son is such a group interest boy. Intelligent and spiritual beyond his years, but still a very social, "pack" type of guy. I wont say herd because I don't know if it's gone that far yet, but he does like to be in a social circle-though he fits into many for now and is well liked by all it seems, it worries me that he does care about what others like and are into etc.

Ok, I'll give an example...NASCAR.

I am NOT a NASCAR type but you know he started picking up on this from his friends and peers in the first grade already! I just worry about me trying to teach him to be an individual, and example to others, and his desire to fit in.

See there is not alot of...um...people of faith shall I say around here...and I worry if everyone at school accepts certain worldly philosophies and teachings as true and correct...is he going to take not the teachers word over what I might be teaching him at home...but the GROUP...teachers, students, peers over what I might be teaching him...

the group over the truth you know?

He is very bright-he was actually invited/accepted into the 6th grade science club this year as a first grader by special recommendation...he loved it, and I was proud of him...but I saw it as yet another group in which he had to play his part...which was to follow.

I want to teach him to be freethinking...but not in the sense it doesn't include a spiritual perspective.

*sigh*

He loves sports for the group socialization too. I refuse to tell him no he can't play sports, so I let him play football and baseball and next year probably basketball, and back to wrestling too...but I worry ...all these groups...all these outside influences..is what I do in the home enough...or is he detined to be a follower....and thus is he more likely to be easily controlled and manipulated?

Ahh, think2much, in posting I'm always torn between saying too much or not enough.

Web posts aren't like essays where you antisipate all arguements and address them in one hit. So sometimes I chose the wrong detail to clarify.

It wasn't just that one thread that displayed a group think mentality but everything from 'medical news' to soap oprahs, drip feeds that idea that death is better, kinder, more humane than suffering pain.

Saddly, to many, a 'medical student' holds extra 'group weight' and when they insist on argueing that doctors are so close to infallible, they are near perfect saints, and refuse to admit the existance of all too many very bad doctors, the 'social group' gives even more 'group weight' to that section of society.

Also the small number of posters overall, 'tells' readers the whole issue lacks importance. Just think of all the old time respected posters who battle long and hard on 'silly' issues that never came near that thread, that sort of deafening silence is a big group saying, "Don't go there!"

I hope I'm making some sence as I'm very tired. Been up 22 hrs now after just a few hour sleep before. An 'incident' seems to have kicked my insomnia into top gear lately so rather than fruitless tossing I hit the net and write myself to sleep.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Ahh, think2much, in posting I'm always torn between saying too much or not enough. (snip) It wasn't just that one thread that displayed a group think mentality but everything from 'medical news' to soap oprahs, drip feeds that idea that death is better, kinder, more humane than suffering pain.

Ok, I get your broader point now! I see what you are saying I was looking at that thread alone, but in the bigger picture I understand

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Saddly, to many, a 'medical student' holds extra 'group weight' and (snip) the 'social group' gives even more 'group weight' to that section of society.

Again-makes sense.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Also the small number of posters overall, 'tells' readers the whole issue lacks importance.

I agree with that too.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Just think of all the old time respected posters who battle long and hard on 'silly' issues that never came near that thread, that sort of deafening silence is a big group saying, "Don't go there!"

Yeah but I don't know why that is. I've actually been pondering this alot lately-the way people pick and choose their battles here...some here seem to have very specific agendas and twist everything to accomplish exploiting that agenda...

Others don't twist but pick and choose and post only on subjects they have a really strong opinion on and never back down or try to learn from another perspective-very closed minded, or as you say, post on "silly" subjects to no end where their personal, religious, or moral opinons needn't be revealed, just facts and opinion on facts, and speculation of the facts...

I don't think of course that they do not have opinions, but I do look around and wonder why some wont stick their head out on certain subjects...because it doesn't interest them, or having their views known or rediculed is unsettling to them, and protecting their views and preserving their "image" here is more important?

anyway, yes, you made sense to me-now get some rest!

Think 2 much,
Hello olde man. I have read your post and want to acknowlege but must make haste. Lots to do today. Will reply more later when I have more time.

The reason you see so little posting of the spiritual nature you describe is that most people have for some time now been of another spirit. The spirit of the fast food lane type thinking. THe throw away society. This is Humanism...in its ultimate goal or destination.
Remember something and I believe I have made this point before in other postings.
The spirit in which you Suzy and I walk is not the same as most people. Believers have always , Just like the Hebrews of Olde, been a minority surrounded by wildlife. Never have we been a majority. You are going to see this more clearly ..as time passes.

Suzy,
Dont worry about posting ..to little or to much ...just make your points clear. You also. Think2much. When you two post you say plenty. I get it most of the time. Those who are of like mind and spirit will understand clearly what you are posting and the Source from which it comes. THe Sword of the Lord...the Sword of the Lord and of Gideon. His Word.

Gotta Go...errands to run,
The God of our Fathers watch over both of you and your houses,
Orangetom

I dont care for that human end of life stuff very much. THe problem with it is that logical reasonable men will constantly take it to the next step. Once you take one step it becomes easy by logic and reason to take another and another..then before you know it you are dispatching retirees because they are defective since they do not produce anything of immediate usage by the social structure ..or they are a burden on them. Soylent Green so to speak.....for those who can remember..or even Logans Run. Useless Eaters is the term I read about years ago..from certain think tanks. Is that not what they do in Communist China..at different times in their social structure.

As to group weight Suzy, I am becoming dissillusioned with some of medical science and am thinking in some avenues they too are becoming a jobs program more intrested in repeat customers..than curing many ills which tend to befall us. I have been thinking this way for a couple of years now and it is getting stronger as the years go by. It sometimes makes me wonder as to exactly what the term professional means..or in this instance medical professional.

You know that entitlement mentality of which I often speak. It is as if we or many of us think we deserve life without work, struggle , discomforture, or even risk. Death is preferable to this..struggle. It seems as if this type of thinking is being slowly cultivated in a new generation of people. As if death is kinder than this struggle. Kinder I think is the expression you used Suzy.

Thanks for your posts,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
....I am becoming dissillusioned with some of medical science and am thinking in some avenues they too are becoming a jobs program more intrested in repeat customers..than curing many ills which tend to befall us.... It sometimes makes me wonder as to exactly what the term professional means..or in this instance medical professional.

... It is as if we or many of us think we deserve life without work, struggle , discomforture, or even risk. Death is preferable to this..struggle. It seems as if this type of thinking is being slowly cultivated in a new generation of people. As if death is kinder than this struggle. Kinder I think is the expression you used Suzy.

Thanks for your posts,
Orangetom

Well anyone following Soficrow's posts on the crazyness of the health "Industry" AND had their own bad experiences, will be pretty well convinced we can't trust all(most?) in the industry to put profit above care.

Too many people still thank the 'god's of medicine' for 'saving their lives', unaware of how many of medicines side effects they are being 'saved' from in the first place (vaccination?) with treatments that still further feed the industry.

Struggle, Pain, Sacrifice, Risk to Productive Life, Chance of Death; these are all things we've been taught to accept as justifiable, no, 'Admirable' things to take on and endure...in the pursuit of SPORTS! Not even elite sports, just for social group bragging rights.

Kids get their vulnerable young bodies, from the age of a toddler, stressed beyond anything anyone would allow a child to endure at work, but in the pursuit of sport, parents are proud of doing this to their children. Yet many of these same people use the excuse of suffering permanent, disabling pain, to justify the killing of babies!?

Try finding comprehensive statistics of the deaths, cripplings, and permanent painfull conditions suffered through sports. Few think of the kids crippled at 15 from having their naturally fit bodies pushed beyond it's natural limits in the pursuit of a medal, let alone those dead 12 y.o. boys who met a much bigger 12y.o. in a football tackle.

But today, 'Society' says these risks for sport are to be admired, but don't let us catch you letting a 12 y.o. lift bags of feed to help the family farm make an honest living.

Suffer for Sport, Suffer for Fashion, Suffer for Fame, Suffer for Big Money and you will be a roll model; Suffer to just live, love and be, and very many will say those people are are a "selfish drain on society".

I used to see of this sort of thinking as "unhealthy", now that it has become the norm, I see 'reasonable society' in it's death throws.

I dont know if I told you in earlier posts but I dont watch most sports. Not intrested. I know that there is a market for those of the greatest talent in this type of thing but it is just not a lifestyle or even a thing to which I would flock as do so many here. The sports page is the first part of the paper i discard. There are however. .a handful of Olympic events which intrest me..other than that ..no thanks.
I agree with you about the bags of feed..they can be quite heavy a times. I like to buy two of the largest bags of bird seed I can at the local feed store here ..they can be a load. Also I recently carried up a ladder here man rolls of "rolled Roofing." Its been awhile since I did any roofing and I can assure you ...those folks earn thier moneys ...very penny. Its very hard work. I did this roof myself ..recently and saved the moneys on labor rates. It is none the less ..very hard work.0
Mind you now..Suzy..I am not against sports..I just dont care for the culture of dumbness that sports promotes. Sports is ok with me if it teaches one eventually to persevere in other areas of life..through work and attention to details..struggle....not entitlement mentality.
When I was much younger for many years I took Judo. I was never really good at it. I got alot of "Air time." It did however teach me some things about sticking with something. and how to lose gracefully and learn lessons by losing.

I have not seen Soficrow's posts . Am I to assume they are on the Conspiracys in Medicine section. I will begin reading some of them if so.

You use the right term too..Gods of medicine.

Thanks for your posts,
Orangetom

Yes Orangetom, sport as a physical activity, to share with friends, clear your mind of other pressures, all good things (I used to compete in equestrian events, but my main interest was showing that a 'WELL' trained animal was a safer animal) but like all brain washing, 'they' take a good example and stretch, twist and deform it into something bizarre.

Women athletes don't even see a problem with their heavy training stopping their reproductive cycle. Winning admiration is more important than creating life.

As a skinny, little 5' 2", girl, working in racing stables, one of my jobs was to haul, on my back, 60 kg. bags of grain the 25 yards into the mixing room and friends and family thought this too much, yet other kids were doing more weights in sports training and that was fine.

Group Dynamics comes up again. Ever noticed how much of a 1/2 hour 'news' report, reports on sport, or measured the inches given to sports stories and world news stories in a paper and compare which topics are 'obviously' so much more important? Overall, the message is that it's 'good' to risk dying for sport, but not to resusitate a stranger on the street.

The majority of people follow the majority, so if you keep telling the majority, what the majority believe, through all pervasive media, it starts to become true.

It's the whole turn around of what is good or bad, admirable or unacceptable, worthwhile or worthless, that I see screaming those end time warnings in 2 Timothy.

What keeps up my distain for professional sports, is how quickly and perfectly sports medicine fixes horrible crippling injuries of these elite athletes, while old folk who have worked hard, honest lives, will wait 4 or more years for a hip replacement, because there isn't a hospital bed 'available'.

I'd like to see every one of these athletes give up their bed to one of the elderly, who didn't ask to be crippled, untill their waiting list is non-existant. Surely an elite athlete can better cope with pain and immobility than a shut in old worker who's found themselves alone, but now can longer get out to build a new social network.

Do you think it would get possitive spin in the news if that happened? "Basketballer retires on pain killers. 'Gives' his surgery spot and rehab. experts to old neigbour waiting 4 years for hip surgery."

No, we've been 'taught' to greatly value those making 'money' now, above those who 'made the nations', we enjoy now.

Oh man sports...not even the professionals now but people trying to train up their kids to go pro from the get go.

My son is 7 and has played organized sports for 2 years now as I let him play whatever he WANTS to and drive him to play nothing. I support him in everything but I refuse to "groom" him for a sport at this age!

He has played T-ball last year, and this year little league baseball. He played football this last year- FLAG football and dabbled in wrestling but wrestled in no real matches. He took Tae Kwon Do for a summer and I may let him return there this summer, and he ran one cross country race "for fun". He is picking up a soccer program this month for 2 months and may try basketball next year.

but here is what getrs me-I let him do these things, pay for them, take him, support him and want him to learn to be a team player, get exercise, have fun, make friends, learn to listen to a coach etc...other of his peers have parents that think they must groom their young children now for high school, college, and professional sports. It is crazy to me.

Parents fight to get their kids on certain teams with the winning coaches. I mean, we are talking about 7 year olds! I socialize with these people in passing, but do not share their passions.

I had to coaches' wives at a birthday party for my son telling me it was not too late to have my son play baseball this year if I just went to talk to so and so... See, we had gotten in a car accident the night of signups and went car shopping for a new van the following Sat when signups continued, so I figured "no late registration " meant just that and figured he would just have to wait until next year and told them our son wouldn't be playing... but apprently it is all in "who you know" and I happen to know the right people I guess.

So I go and talk to the guy they tell me to...he asked who sent me, I drop the names and voila-We're in....only one problem...all the good coaches (the husbands of the wives who gave me the inside scoop)had been filled up and he couldn't squeeze us in so I would have to go with a lesser coach...like I care? We are talking 7 year olds people!! I tell him thats fine and he seemed surprised...he said it should really be about fun, friendship and learning skills, not winning and I agreed...he seemed surprised. WTH is it supposed to be about at 7 years freakin old?!?!?!? Geez

Anyway, I speak of this because as a parent of youngsters I am just scared for them in their sports endeavors. A friend of mine has a boy 9 months older than my son and in the same grade but lives in a different state. They are signing up for football already there for this fall. The father of this boy wants him to play for one organization because they play tackle ball for ages 8-10 or something and he wants his son playing tackle not some pansy flag football...I couldn't believe it...thankfully the organization that plays tackle and has all the cool uniforms etc also costs like $200 plus selling raffle tickets or buying them to the tune of another $100 so the cheaper league of flag football became the choice this year...all I could think was thank goodness your son wont have to sustain injuries or possibly die at 8 years old. You know?!?!?! We had a kid die on the field in highschool! It happens more than people know.

SO does steroid use by teens-crazy!!!!!

Anyway, in it all I have athletes in my family-kids playing college sports etc and the pressure they have known. My neice confided she didn't even know if she wanted to play basketball this past year...but she didn't want to let her parents down. She had enough trouble just dealing with college life, schhol, grades, freedom, pressure and availablity of partying and didn't want to add to it practice and games and court politics of her team mates etc...but she had been groomed for this...her "dream" handed to her by her parents...

Anyway, just had to vent about sports!!! It all seems crazy to me and I wince when they talk of those not as athletically inclined as their children, because my son-the first grader in the 6th grade science club- is not as athletically naturally talented nor coached by his father ever waking moment, however he is sociable, well liked and likes sports so he plays...but I don't want it to become a source of him being ridiculed you know. My protective parenting comming out I suppose. I just refuse to try to make him into something he's not or feed him full of the same crap I hear from others that sports are their only real ticket in life these days...not just to go pro, or get a scholarship but that even smaller colleges want athletics over academics. push push push...athletes at all costs...crazy.

Originally posted by think2much
NO, you are mistaken...I'm neither part of the conspiracy nor do I have a solution;....in seeking what the conspiracies of control are I've been alarmed...in my paranoia, I've been now plactaed, and in my atttempt to resist I have found no way yet...therefore I feel a certain apathy towards it all now...a depressing one...so unless you have the solution...

are you part of the conspiracy? if not...then GIVE ME THE SOLUTION friend! WHere does the resistance lie?

Simon came out, how was your interview?

Besides, you can't be controlled by anyone unless you choose to be submissive. You always have that choice, no matter what is on the table.

Originally posted by legallygold223

Besides, you can't be controlled by anyone unless you choose to be submissive. You always have that choice, no matter what is on the table.

You always have a choice-of course, but you do NOT always know your choices...what is on the table, or what the stakes are...or how to choose the right.

Control can be subversively deceitful and manipulative...you needn't be actively, knowingly submissive to be controlled...just unaware.

THAT is what scares me.

[edit on 17-4-2006 by think2much]

Interesting Read, I think our reality itself is based on the suroundings of whitch we grow up in, such us we are a product of our own exsistence of our own suroundings, everything we expearence and see make us who we are and there for we quickly grow to except our "reality", we dont know better unless presented with it... i have always felt that this is the way society is, its just the way the government wants it, everyone is like a rat on a wheel making money for the government or the greater power.......... Tonight i lost 31,ooo on the gamblering and im sooooo drunk excuse the spelling another day in the crazy life of the Inf0rm3r

[edit on 17-4-2006 by Inf0rm3r]

Have any of you read up on Tavistock Institution? It's the think-tank funded by rockefeller, the CIA and other elite families inliverpool England. This is wher a group of scientists and psychologists have studied BRAINWASHING TECHNIQUES used in WWI and WWII whe they tortured prisoners..Tavistock is where the most every facet in life has been manipulated and subconciously planted in our society ( they way we think, what he think is not interesting, rebellious music [rock n roll], and our education and religious institutions).....MIND BLOWING to say the least