Pics : Downed F-117, downed F-16, damaged F-15, shot down Tomahawk in Kosovo

Has anybody ever claimed that any aeroplane is 'unwinsible? I don't think they have.

No, but the americans do it quite often...

HI I AM from SERBIA. we are shot down three F117, 61 other planes, and many many other. FOR your informations.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
HI I AM from SERBIA. we are shot down three F117, 61 other planes, and many many other. FOR your informations.

Officially we in the US know of one F-117 being shot down over Serbia, unofficially we have heard of 2 F-117's shot down - although the 2nd shooting down is dubious in nature - now you tell us that there were three F-117's shot down... we would like to hear more.
What info or data do you have to share with us?

reply to post by Stealth Spy


This source is incorrect on several fronts. While it is true that a longer (lower) frequency MAY generate a higher energy return off an F117, the resolution of longer wavelengths is many orders LESS that higher frequencies. You CANNOT detect a dragonfly with low-freq radar no matter what you do. That would require a millimeter-length frequency (refer to the closed loop radars on shipboard defense systems). Additionally, these older units cannot be switched off and on quickly enough to avoid destruction from HARMS, they consume copious amounts of power, and no matter how much processing power you put on it- your still trying to make a Mercedes out of an Edsel. These older units he speaks of are detectable way beyond their own detection ranges. The F117 was downed by a smart ground commander and a careless pilot who opened his bomb bay door way early. No one has ever even posted a radar track of a B2 spirit bomber, never-mind a shoot-down.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
HI I AM from SERBIA. we are shot down three F117, 61 other planes, and many many other. FOR your informations.

61 other aircraft? As Intelgirl said, I'd like to see a source or something. That's just a bit unbelievable.

When the F-117 came out, I do remember there being reports that you could pick it up on radar, you just had to have good equipment and a good operator that knew what to look for. And when he did see it, it would be not really distinct.

The story I heard was that the 117 had mechanical problems and the pilot ejected. As soon as his canopy blew off, he lit himself up on radar bigtime. That allowed the Serbs to see him.

reply to post by jerico65


This thread is REALLY old.

He didn't blow off the canopy before hand.

www.youtube.com...

www.airwarriors.com...

reply to post by intelgurl


i do know of at least 1 f-117a hit and it crashed on landing in that war

Originally posted by C0bzz
This thread is REALLY old.

Geez, I know! Anon ATS posted, but it hadn't shown up yet. When I wrote my post, I realized this was a seriously old thread!!

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
No one has ever even posted a radar track of a B2 spirit bomber, never-mind a shoot-down.

Really?
So are you are you on the American side of things or the other? Because it looks like you are privy to information (radar tracks et al) from nations that find it in their best national interests to pick up a B-2.
Whether a B-2 has been picked up by a ground station or not is not something that the particular B-2 crew is always 100% aware of; irrespective of whether it is shot down or not.

I went on a business trip to Belgrade in 2002 and went to the aircraft museum. There I saw the remains of the F-117 fusilage and bought a small fragment which I still have today it was from aircraft F-117a 82-806, it was given to me in a nice plastic wallet and a certification card.

Is anyone interested in it as I may ebay it!! it's just sat in my drawer for teh past 6 years.

Plane (B-2) crashed in Spačvanske šume near Županja, Croatia. It was hit by the same unit, that shot down F-117A,F-16 and damaged one F-117A and damaged one AV-8B Harrier II (these arcrafts are hit by S-125M Neva,missiles that been used 5V27D and 5V27U),and two F-15 where damaged by Strela-2M (both of them where hit in engines) ,(3rd battalion of 250 Rocket Brigade).

19.5.1999 on 20.5.1999 around 00:00 Surveliace Radar started to track blue (Nato aircrafts in sky).....,Azimuth 180, target range 17-18 km, commander give the order to turn on the Sight radar, then order to increse high voltage on Sight radar, after a few seconds after guidans officer found the target, target was put in the center, Tracking operators acepted and after they stabilised tracking sistems, commader ordered, Target destroy with two missiles, first missile starts from lanching pad, after a few seconds,second one goes, guidenes officer reports parameter, altitude, speed,first missile locked the target, second one also,guidans is normal, target range 14km , one off the operators says "What a # is this?" Reflection from the target was big, first missile exploded near the target, second missile exploded near the target ,target range 13km, azimuth 180, commander give the order to turn off the high voltage from Sight radar. From operational Center Obrenovac warning was sent, helicopter are in the air, From azimuth 205-235, from 300-330, from 150-180 aircrafts are coming at us,, Commander give the order to start "imitator emmision".

Two missiles (5v27D) where fired from S-125 M Neva, both missiles exploded near the aircraft, B-2 suffered heavy damage.
Serbian Security Service posses the tape, that recorded conversation between Pilots from B-2 and Awacs, where they reported that they have been hit and they asked permission to leave the aircraft, Awacs ordered them not to leave the aircraft, and Awacs ordered them, that they must across border not to leave the evidence to the Yugoslav Army and then to eject. B-2 AB-8-88-0329 at 00:23 crashed in Croatia, Županja, Spačvanske Šume (forrest) together with pilots. Pilots died.

When I find more information abouth this ,I will post.

reply to post by alzir86


Except that oddly enough, the aircraft that was claimed to have been shot down was seen years AFTER the "shoot down" when they were no longer building the aircraft.

Add to that there is NO WAY that a flight crew is going to ask permission to leave their aircraft. That's pure BS. The FLIGHT CREW decides if the aircraft is flyable or not, and THEY make the decision to eject or not. The AWACS doesn't know how badly damaged the aircraft is, the flight crew does. The aircraft can usually be replaced, or there are more of them that can be used, where it's much harder to replace the flight crews and their experience.

There is not a flight crew in the world that is going to be hit, severely damaged, and take the time to ask someone if they can eject, even in a B-2. The situation changes too quickly. They can go from seemingly minor damage, to exploding in midair in seconds, or falling out of the sky and unable to eject.

It's a good story, but all it is is propaganda.

Post that I wrote I translated from the book, War Diary Smena written by Djordje Aničić, book was published a month ago.

reply to post by alzir86


And I've been reading accounts of this for years. Yet up until February 2008 there were 21 B-2s, all accounted for, the B-2(s) that they claim they shot down (both of them) were seen almost immediately after the shoot down at air shows, and there was no way they could have been replaced quickly, because this was well after the production line was shut down.

This was pure propaganda. There is ZERO evidence of it being shot down except this account. The F-117 was IMMEDIATELY shown on tv and pieces were put in a museum, but yet the B-2(s) were never seen ANYWHERE. If they had shot down the premier bomber in the world (and the most expensive) then they would have plastered it all over every media outlet they could, and shown how the billion dollar bomber was a failure.

I think at one point, the Serbs had claimed around 150 planes shot down. Amazing, how the only two planes they shown wreckage of, are the only two confirmed losses.

this sums it up

Abstract: Weak air defenses in Afghanistan during Operation ENDURING FREEDOM in 2001 and 2002 failed to down a single U.S. Air Force (USAF) aircraft. In operations between 1990 and 2000, however, the USAF lost 17 airplanes in combat, including 14 over Iraq and 3 over the former Yugoslavia. Thirteen USAF airplanes fell to Soviet-designed surface-to-air missiles (SAMs): 7 to heat-seekers (infrared) and 6 to missiles guided by radar. Antiaircraft artillery (AAA) downed 3 airplanes. One other aircraft maneuvered out of control after falsely perceiving enemy aircraft fire. Allied air superiority assured that no USAF airplanes were lost to enemy aircraft, either in aerial combat or because of enemy raids on friendly airfields. Given the number of sorties flown, the number of aircraft lost is minuscule. For example, during Operation DESERT STORM against Iraq in 1991, the USAF lost a total of 14 aircraft after flying more than 29,300 combat sorties, or .048 percent. This was against an enemy with 16, 000 SAMs, 7,000 antiaircraft guns, and 750 combat aircraft. During Operation ALLIED FORCE against Serbia in 1999, the USAF lost one F-16 after more than 4, 500 F-16 sorties, or .02 percent. Analysis of the aircraft losses suggests effective countermeasures. Superior fighters and destruction of enemy airfields suppresses the threat of interceptors. Stealth technology provides protection against both radar-guided and heat-seeking SAMs. Flying high, fast, and at night reduces the risk of destruction by relatively small heat-seeking SAMs or AAA. For aircraft that fly slow and low during daylight, flares and armor provide some protection against heat-seekers and AAA. High-speed anti-radiation missiles (HARMs), electronic jamming, destruction of enemy command and control centers, dispensing chaff, and launching decoys counter larger radar-guided SAMs. Flying unpredictably and using standoff weapons, unmanned aircraft, and cruise missiles also reduce manned aircraft losses.

sure weve lost aircraft but look at the sortie to loss rates

reply to post by punkinworks


I'm pretty sure a MQ-1 Predator was downed by an Iraqi Mig-25(air to air missile)... in 2000, I believe.

Originally posted by alzir86
Post that I wrote I translated from the book, War Diary Smena written by Djordje Aničić, book was published a month ago.

Is he the Serbian Tom Clancy?

As Zaphod points out, the Serbians would have had it one every outlet they could if they had shot one down.

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by alzir86
Post that I wrote I translated from the book, War Diary Smena written by Djordje Aničić, book was published a month ago.

Is he the Serbian Tom Clancy?

As Zaphod points out, the Serbians would have had it one every outlet they could if they had shot one down.

Who is Tom Clancy?