Originally posted by Zaphod58
Add to that there is NO WAY that a flight crew is going to ask permission to leave their aircraft. That's pure BS. The FLIGHT CREW decides if the aircraft is flyable or not, and THEY make the decision to eject or not. The AWACS doesn't know how badly damaged the aircraft is, the flight crew does. The aircraft can usually be replaced, or there are more of them that can be used, where it's much harder to replace the flight crews and their experience.

except maybe when they're in a B-2 over enemy airspace?
Yea I know.. propaganda, maybe.. but definitely interesting.

Im gonna call BS on this one


Just like when the serbs said they destroyed several M1A2's.

Funny thing is no US armor saw any action in balkans, the tanks were to big to cross old stone bridges.

Originally posted by Daedalus3
except maybe when they're in a B-2 over enemy airspace?
Yea I know.. propaganda, maybe.. but definitely interesting.

Nope, the AC calls the shots. AWACS doesn't give the word whether or not to eject from a damaged aircraft. The SPINS may say to try to move the aircraft somewhere else prior, but it's not an order, it's just a plan.

The problem with a B-2 being shot down with a SAM is that SAMs and Air to air missiles use radar fusing on there warheads to detonate the warhead as it passes the air craft.

B-2s would not have enough radar bounce-back from the aircraft to fire the fuse.
this leaves only a rare accidental direct hit by a SAM as the only way to down a B-2 with a SAM or air to air missile.

You would have a better luck with visual aimed anti-air gun fire.

a F117 with the bay door open may give enough radar cross-section to fire the fuse.

This is what it says Colonel Zoltan Dani,I translated part of the Interview, in first part he expained , destruction of F-117A crashed in (Buđanovci 27 march 1999) and F-16 crashed in (Šabac 1- 2 May 1999). This interview is from year 2008.

Fighter-bombers F-117 and F-16 are not the only NATO aircrafts, that have been hit by SAM-s of the 250 Rocket Brigade of Air Defence, for those two aircrafts we have"black on white" that they are downed.We know for sure, that we downned even a American strategic bomber B-2A "under" name "Spirit of Missouri", plane crashed at Spačvanske Šume (forrest), fifteen kilometers from our border, but we can't prove it,Americans did recognized us "intermediary"of his destruction.

TO Daedalus3,
that picture is OK, you can find it on this way if you want.
In google search images you write Županja than search and fourth picture is small map where Županja is, under picture is this:

Županja
340 x 271 - 57k - gif
www.osijek-petrol.hr

Hmmm, so they were capable of shooting down a B2, but not so good at producing a simple cardboard template and painting it on the side of their van? 'Cause that's one of the worst paint jobs I've ever seen. Or maybe it's just a crappy photoshop? Hmmm.

Once again, (I can't remember where I saw it but this is a great point), the US President couldn't even hide the fact that he had a bit of fun with an intern, or Abu Graib, Guantanamo Bay etc, and yet they can cover up the loss of one of their most precious (and limited in numbers) aircraft? I really don't thinks so. And the lack of Serb propoganda at the time this supposedly happened really doesn't instil confidence in the story. Sorry, but it would take a hell of a lot more than supposed interviews and dodgy paint jobs to convince me that a B2 was lost.

This is what a skilled pilot can do with his aircraft, from War Diary Smena-Đorđe Aničić.

Thursday, 8 June 1999

Target was detected with termovisia system at range 25 kilometers. Radar measured range 18 kilometers.Again with termovisia, then raising the high voltage and transition on radar canal on 12th kilometer two rocket where launched, When he noticed that he was rayed, he sent balk, which handle tracking operators could not eliminate. There where no clouds, pilot avoid first missile with manoeuvre direct to ground , 90 degree angle.For 5-10 seconds, before the meeting missile and target,manoeuvre is successuful.Second missile,that goes 5 seconds after the first, cathed the manoeuvre and tracked the aircraft in the plunge. Surpising manoeuvre to down. Plane was going like a rock, and then at the alltitude 500-1000 meters from ground, he retrieve and flew paralel with ground and after that he climb at high angle,going to safe. Proffesional (comment from operators room). AA Guns started to shoot, but to late, They had ideal chance to hit. then a Strela S-2M started, one of them activated on Heat decoy. pilot ejected 3 heat decoys in a form of fire ball, plane turned right and went to safe.

And about B-2. I understand that people can not accept,that plane was shoot down, but my intent is not to convice someone that plane was shoot,only to present what I Read or found until now. Even for me is difficul to accept because I never saw fragment of that aircraft,like I and other people saw F-117,F-16, unmannded aerial vehicle...or

For example I have looked on TV (I posses the video tape) a commander of squad Lt.Colonel Srboljub Radić from 72nd Special Brigade of Yugoslavian Army explained how his unit destroyed on helliodrom 1 AH-64 Apach and 1 CH-47 Chinook on ground in F.Y.R. Macedonia (border between Yugoslavia and F.Y.R.Macedonia in region of former border post Radika). But I personally, never saw the destroyed Helicopters in public.

For the thing that I saw with my eyes I can tell, i don't remembre the date I saw, when I was in my village with my father and other people, we where siting outside of a store when we saw 2 aircrafts flying, and one missile hit the aircraft in one engine, then there was a smoke and that aircraft droped something, and both planes give a speed and they went from my visual range. Few days later I read in newspaper that in village Boljkovci (few kilometers from my village) they found oil tank (there was a picture) and in newspaper they said, that plane was hit and plane went across the border and landed safelly. When the war satarted first day I went outside (like every kid who wants to see what going on), during the night and i saw a missile. This Two things are the only thing that I saw during the war, and of cource I heard a lot of noice during the war from sky. But I don't have a picture or video of this.


This was very long post, Maybe someone will have enough time to read it. And I hope that the readers will forgive me if I made a grammar mistakes

Originally posted by alzir86

This is what a skilled pilot can do with his aircraft, from War Diary Smena-Đorđe Aničić.

Thursday, 8 June 1999

Target was detected with termovisia system at range 25 kilometers. Radar measured range 18 kilometers.Again with termovisia, then raising the high voltage and transition on radar canal on 12th kilometer two rocket where launched, When he noticed that he was rayed, he sent balk, which handle tracking operators could not eliminate. There where no clouds, pilot avoid first missile with manoeuvre direct to ground , 90 degree angle.For 5-10 seconds, before the meeting missile and target,manoeuvre is successuful.Second missile,that goes 5 seconds after the first, cathed the manoeuvre and tracked the aircraft in the plunge. Surpising manoeuvre to down. Plane was going like a rock, and then at the alltitude 500-1000 meters from ground, he retrieve and flew paralel with ground and after that he climb at high angle,going to safe. Proffesional (comment from operators room). AA Guns started to shoot, but to late, They had ideal chance to hit. then a Strela S-2M started, one of them activated on Heat decoy. pilot ejected 3 heat decoys in a form of fire ball, plane turned right and went to safe.

Any info on the timeframe of the above narration? Location? What kind of aircraft?

For the thing that I saw with my eyes I can tell, i don't remembre the date I saw, when I was in my village with my father and other people, we where siting outside of a store when we saw 2 aircrafts flying, and one missile hit the aircraft in one engine, then there was a smoke and that aircraft droped something, and both planes give a speed and they went from my visual range. Few days later I read in newspaper that in village Boljkovci (few kilometers from my village) they found oil tank (there was a picture) and in newspaper they said, that plane was hit and plane went across the border and landed safelly. When the war satarted first day I went outside (like every kid who wants to see what going on), during the night and i saw a missile. This Two things are the only thing that I saw during the war, and of cource I heard a lot of noice during the war from sky. But I don't have a picture or video of this.

So you were where when this happened? when did this happen? Its been a decade now since 1998.

This was very long post, Maybe someone will have enough time to read it. And I hope that the readers will forgive me if I made a grammar mistakes

Such details are always appreciated. Thank you for you post, and please share/direct us here to any literature you may have on the events on 1998.
There are aviation enthusiasts from all over the world (this thread itself has people from 4 continents reading and responding), and opinions are always aplenty.

For the thing that I saw with my eyes I can tell, i don't remembre the date I saw, when I was in my village with my father and other people, we where siting outside of a store when we saw 2 aircrafts flying, and one missile hit the aircraft in one engine, then there was a smoke and that aircraft droped something, and both planes give a speed and they went from my visual range. Few days later I read in newspaper that in village Boljkovci (few kilometers from my village) they found oil tank (there was a picture) and in newspaper they said, that plane was hit and plane went across the border and landed safelly. When the war satarted first day I went outside (like every kid who wants to see what going on), during the night and i saw a missile. This Two things are the only thing that I saw during the war, and of cource I heard a lot of noice during the war from sky. But I don't have a picture or video of this.

Actually, that all sounds right, since an A-10 was hit in an engine and landed safely, and also I know that sometimes drop tanks were jettisoned too.

It hapend between Pećinci and Stara Pazova north - northwest from Belgrade. It is dificull to said exact place because divison was changing location during the war.Division was responsable for defending Belgrade from approach north-northwest (Srem region) together with first and second division.Type of aircraft is not written. I don't know why?

For the thing that I saw, it hapend in the sky above the village Kalimanići, town Gornji Milanovac, West Serbia, as I wrote two planes where flying, one was hit in engine, than smoke, oil tank fell, speed and both of them went. Someone said that was F-15 because one engine was hit and the other one give him a speed to go away, but I couldn't recognize the aircraft, because only planes that I saw before the war where Comercial planes, several years before the war I saw once Mig-29, and Super galeb G-4 (Superseegall G-4) several times, At that time I was able to recognize Super galeb G-4, because I had a picture of him, and about Mig-29 neighbuor said that plane is mig. Off cource now after I read a lot of books magazines ,saw pictures and looked videos I can recognize most of the planes that I see on the sky.

It was a A-10, because I remember seeing a photo of it shot from the ground, with an engine smoking, but also the pilot was the son of one of the senior USAF officers that was involved too.

But its these kind of examples is why all those claims out of Serbia for all those downed aircraft was just not true. It was acknowledged than an F-16 and F-117 were shot down, and that the A-10 was hit but made it back. There are stories and photos that verify those losses.

But the Serbian claims were just too fanciful to believe, and some of those claims were of aircraft types that were not even involved. I think I remember one Serbian claim of 150 aircraft shot down, including B-2s, B-52s, and a ground attack that destroyed AH-64 apaches, and M-1 Abrams tanks.

But there has been ZERO evidence to support any of it. In reality, those wild claims were meant more to keep Serbians motivated, than for anyone else to believe.

A-10 pilot was a son of the General Michael Short, his plane was hit at 18000 feet

Part of the interview with General M. Short

And there were risks. Tell me about what happened to your son.

My son called, and said immediately, "Don't tell Mom." My response was, "Don't tell Mom what?" And he said, "I got hit tonight." My question was, "Where were you?" I expected him to say he was down at 3,000 feet, that there was a tank he just had to get. Then when he said, "I was at 18,000 feet," I breathed a great sigh of relief, one, because he was okay, and two, because he was following the rules. It was just a freak thing.

Originally posted by alzir86
And about B-2. I understand that people can not accept,that plane was shoot down, but my intent is not to convice someone that plane was shoot,only to present what I Read or found until now. Even for me is difficul to accept because I never saw fragment of that aircraft,like I and other people saw F-117,F-16, unmannded aerial vehicle...or

The reason that people can't believe that it was shot down was because it was seen at airshows within 2 years of it being shot down. The only way that they could have hidden it would be to have built a whole new plane, with the same manufacturer serial number, same tail number, etc, and that just doesn't happen in secret. It reminds me of a thread I was in years ago, where supposedly the Argentinians sank a Royal Navy aircraft carrier in the Falklands war and they wanted to keep it secret so they built a new one just like it in the US, and replaced it. There's no way that it could have happened, because too many people are involved along the way.

From the Interwiev Zoltan Dani to Magazine PECAT

Read entire its interesting, for grammar mistakes and some words sorry


Former colonel of Yugoslav Army Air defence who commanded unit that during aggression on Federal Republic Yugoslavia shot down 3 aircraft of western alliance (F-117, F-16 and B-2),born in Kovin 1956.After ending of NATO agressiomn he was transferred to logistical units and on the September 1st 2004 he was retired on his own request. He is married and father of 3 child. Ownes a small backery firm in Skorenovac.

As you claim division that was under yours command was able to shot down American plane F-117 with old Soviet battery S-125 neva with technical improvment that you created. Are you willing after 10 years after the aggression to reveal what was this innovation, whose existence deny people from our Army?

In Rocket units of PVO (Air defence) every year there was a expert-specialistic checking that had several segments. One of those segments was analise of the knowing the attack efectivess from air space from foreign countries. In early period our Army was well known with weapons that used members off Warsaw Pact and NATO. Off cource studyng was focused on most modern technic which potential agresors on our county had. And from most modern systems at the and of 90s that NATO had cruise missiles and F-117 as the aircraft of stelt technology. First information abouth this plane we recived in 1986 in magazine Nasa Krila (Our Wings). In that magazine some of the caracteristics that our intelligence offices found was published. From that moment F-117 become mine main intrest, because I could not belive that there is a plane that flies but can not been seen on RADAR. For me that sounded imposible, because that was clear that engine on F-117 plane that was heavey 23 tons could not be made from plastics its made from metal. It means that electromagnetic energy must hit the plane a then to reflect from it. Latly I figured out that the story of the Stelt Technolgy was pure Marketing. Only I had to find the way to make that plane visible, so at year 1996 in GeneralHeadQuarters Schooll, thanks to the colonel Vojislav Petrovic, I got a chance to study the posibilitis off the fighting between Rocket units of PVO against Stelt technologies. Mine innovation that Army denies basicly its simple. I marked exact frequence on which the plane as a body in the air to “rezonuje” (I don’t know how to translate). I started from the basic laws of fisics, Its knows that iff you cross with the wet finger across the edge off glass , you will couse the vibrations and If you find the right frequency glass would fall apart. Tits the same with the plane, if you achive to plane enters in “rezonanca” (I don't know how to translate) that you put then the plane will become the source off emission and you will have it na your palm. That we did in our unit, on SIGHT RADAR we determined the frequency and success was eminent.

On which way did you exactly shot down the “invisible” aircraft of Western alliance?

After we find the position of the plane SIGHT RADAR we give the direction off the radar in that approach, we let him to approach on distance that was nececary, and plane because its made from metal he was seened as a searten frequency, signal. That signal had lower characteristics on Sight radar but enough to track him and to fire on him. Missile it self containes radar Lighter. If that Radr lighter could not activate because there is no reflection from the target, then that missile will not explode. We send a rocket in target area radar lighter turned on and because off that War Head activate. That was the proff that our frequency was working excellent and giva as more effective combat.