Bob Lazar: There’s More to the Story

originally posted by: OneWhoKnowsSaidBudd
My two cents are that I never believed Bob Lazar for a minute. Twenty years later I believe him even less.

I can tell you more about a flying saucer than he can. I have no idea how they work, but I have significant details about their operation.

Welcome to the thread, Billy Meier.

Which is also a term in rhyming slang I believe!

originally posted by: idusmartias
a reply to: mirageman

mirageman: I don't like to hijack threads but I am guilty of doing so in your thread which is about Bob Lazar. But he is linked, albeit indirectly, with Billy Meier. So I ask you here and now for you to forgive me for drifting away from the topic to answer questions and may I have your permission to continue doing so to answer the questions raised by Arbitrageur and others?

The ATS moderators will act if a thread is going too far off-topic. There is a link, it may be tangential but not necessarily so off topic to be irrelevant. So I don't see any problem in this particular case.

Too many people see the Bob Lazar tale as something far too binary. Perhaps because they don't know much beyond Corbell's fairytale mockumentary "Jeremy Corbell in his Kitchen on his Phone ft.Bob Lazar. Or whatever it was called.

It's not a case of stating "I believe, Bob" or "Bob is a liar". I believe Bob owns a company called United Nuclear. But I don't think he worked on alien spaceships in the desert. There's plenty of proof he's made money out of his story and that story has changed despite the protestations of ignorant posters on social media. But no proof the most fantastic part of the story is true. Despite being ably assisted by Lear, Huff, Knapp and Corbell for more than 30 years to spread the myth. One or more who have always been right by his side whenever Bob is interviewed. Perhaps Bob cannot be trusted to speak by himself?

originally posted by: Irishhaf
So, I am curious, the security guard that pulled the historical logs, and the boss lady just pulled personnel files.

So, can anyone access this stuff, or did they make an exception for area 51 and leave things like who was where and when at area 51 unclassified? Kind of an important little thing when dealing with classified things, everyone can be broken all the bad guys need to know is who to pick up to question.

This discredit attempt holds about as much water to me as bob lazar's story.

I like BL's story, he tells a good story, and bits and pieces of it ring true but without additional proof it's still just a story.

The president of the roadrunners, TD Barnes, says what people work on at area 51 is classified, but whether they were there or not is not a secret. Whether TD Barnes is correct or not in stating that, I can't say, but it's what he says and one would think he would be in a position to know such things. He seems to be clear in his mind about what he can talk about and what he can't. That discussion is in this interview, of which I had already made a transcript of the relevant segment, before this thread started:

SPACE: Area 51 Veterans’ Association President Provides Expert Insight on Tic Tac UFO’s
Time Index: 22:50

"Host: So I've listened to a couple of Bob Lazar interviews. I'm sure you're familiar with that name.

TD Barnes: Yeah.

Host: So is there any doubt he worked at area 51?

TD Barnes: Nah, he never worked there. Uh-uh.

Host: No?...He claims to have worked there in the .....Late 80s.

TD Barnes: Yeah, if you know how that works out there, of course everybody commuted out there, even in my day, except our group that was working with the CIA directly. Everybody else...had to commute in, it was required.
First of all, you had to be on a manifest before you could ever get on the plane. Then the flight would be met by security, and they would check your badges and again a manifest on the other end.
A lot of the security guards still live here in Vegas. They've been part of the roadrunners, and they say absolutely that Lazar was never there.

Host: Wow. These are guys that worked there in the late 80s......Cause I've heard Lazar tell his story. He told it recently on another podcast, the Joe Rogan show, and he goes into great detail, and he talks about the flight that you're talking about now, he talks about the flight from Vegas to the secret place, and going back and forth, y'lnow every week, and some of the tests he had to pass in order to work there, and then some of the things that he worked on.

TD Barnes: Yeah, exactly, and talking about working at Papoose lake, believe me, there was absolutely nothing there. You know he talked about site 4. There is a site 4, that's where we had all our soviet radar. We actually had a little landing strip at one of the remote sites, but it was not at Papoose lake.So he picked up on a lot of stuff that he's heard about, and knows about what we call the Janet flights, so he could make a good story, but none of the security people, no one knew him.

Host: Is it also fair to say based on the amount of secrecy and classifiedness of everything, that it makes no sense that a guy like that would come out and say the things that he said.

TD Barnes No, and you couldn't have kept it secret. And other people by now would have come out and said yeah we knew the guy, and he was kinda crazy and this or that, but absolutely...
I'm president of roadrunners which is all the guys that worked out there, contractors, pilots, engineers, everybody, and noone ever heard of him.

Host: The fact that you worked there is not a secret obviously.

TD Barnes No, it's not secret.
..."
27:08 switched topic to TicTac discussion.

So Barnes says the fact he worked at area 51 is not secret. What he did there was secret, that's the distinction. Though some older projects have been de-classified by now. Barnes seems certain Lazar didn't work in the secure part of Area 51. So, either Lazar is a liar, or Barnes is a liar or mistaken. You already know Lazar lied about his education, right? Even George Knapp doesn't believe Lazar's education claims, so it's not hard to figure out which one is lying.

Eric Davis used his personal contacts with the roadrunners to get the information he got about Lazar working at the unclassified facility. Since that facility is not classified, there's no reason the records should be secret, right? But, you might need connections to access them, like Eric Davis has.

Here is a BL (RL) timeline from an un-biased person……..I t-h-I-n-k?


The Robert Lazar Timeline

As Assembled from Public Records and Statements

Version 1.30, January, 1997

Originally released July, 1994

by Tom Mahood

www.otherhand.org...

For what it’s worth


👽🛸☕️🍩

Mahood first achieved public recognition for exposing major flaws in Lazar's academic claims. I archived some of Tom's research on the www.stealthskater.com... page and www.stealthskater.com...

Tom temporarily quit his civil traffic engineering job to return to college to get his Masters in Physics. He has spent some time in investigating the radar ranges of the SouthWest in search of UFO stories. He was a member of the Area-51 "The Elders" group which also had Glenn Campbell, Mark Farmer ("Agent X"), John Andrews, and Jim Goodall .

But Tom did admit that his research could only track Bob Lazar back to a certain point and then it was like Lazar had "disappeared". Sergei Pavlovich Korolev (or Sergey Pavlovich Korolyov) was the director of the Soviet moon rocket program. His U.S. counterpart was Wernher von Braun. The latter had all the resources of American industry and Academia while the Russian military generals were first recipients of Russian technology.

The Soviet's Saturn-V equivalent blew up on the launch pad and the Moon race was conceded to the U.S. at that moment. (A remaining launch vehicle was converted to a giant chicken coup.) Korolev was punished by having his name removed from all Soviet history books and erased from public records. It was only years after his death that his name was restored.

So it is very possible for a government to remove somebody from all records. I'm not saying that's indeed what happened to Lazar when Mahood could only go back so far. Just pointing out the possibility. I still think the former and Teller were on some disinfo scheme. (Another Roswell theory is that the UFO story was contrived to flush Soviet spies out of the surrounding territory that in 1947 housed the World's only atomic weapons. But the only people who were fooled were the American public.) A "friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend" told me that a new power source had been discovered. And I had read about Dr. Wen Ho Lee's claim about holographic dimensional portals.

So who really knows? Maybe ignorance is bliss after all!

originally posted by: stealthskater
But Tom did admit that his research could only track Bob Lazar back to a certain point and then it was like Lazar had "disappeared".

Where and when did Tom Mahood "admit" that? What are the specifics? Exactly what point in time did Lazar allegedly "disappear"?

I'm having some difficulty reconciling this claim with the timeline from Tom Mahood linked in the post immediately prior to yours. The timeline goes all the way back to high school, and reports that Lazar's class standing was so low it would have been impossible for him to have been accepted into either of the schools CalTech or MIT where applicants have to be in the top 10-20% of their class to get admitted.

The Robert Lazar Timeline

August 1976:
According to Stanton Friedman, RL graduated from W. Tresper Clarke High School (740 Edgewood Drive, East Meadow Union Free District) in Westbury Long Island, New York. His class standing was number 261 out of a class of 369. Further, according to Friedman, this would put RL in the bottom third of his class and entry into Cal Tech or MIT generally requires the student be in the top 10% of the class. (15)

So it is very possible for a government to remove somebody from all records. I'm not saying that's indeed what happened to Lazar when Mahood could only go back so far. Just pointing out the possibility.

You're not saying that's what happened to Lazar, but you are bringing that up in a Lazar thread...why? Maybe it happened in Russia. Is that a possibility for someone in the USA?

If you're talking about Lazar, what records? His Kindergarden or elementary school records? I don't think I can find mine but that doesn't mean anybody made them disappear.

It's ridiculous to make inferences about Lazar's education records disappearing if that's what you're trying to do. There are records of Lazar showing that his education claims must be false. Not only were Lazar's grades way too low to get admitted to his claimed universities as Stanton Freidman's research showed, but he also pointed out that Lazar was attending Pierce junior college at the same time he suposedly was attending MIT at the opposite end of the country, and impossible commute.

Another problem with your tangent about Korolev in this Lazar thread...erasing Korolev's public records wouldn't erase his memory of his professors at the university he attended. When asked to name some of his professors from Cal Tech or MIT, Lazar named teachers from his high school and pierce junior college:

Lazar tells a crowd at Rachel in 1993 that he had professors Duxler and Hohsfield at MIT and Caltech
You can find those teachers Lazar mentioned allegedly at CalTech and MIT here, and they are not at CalTech or MIT:

Why does Rogan believe Bob Lazar ?

A guy who tells a crowd at Rachel in 1993 that he had professors Duxler and Hohsfield at MIT and Caltech. Neither were found to have taught at MIT and Caltech by Friedman. Friedman found them to be Bob's Highschool and Pierce College teachers for which there is record of Bob attending. MIT and Caltech also told Friedman that Bob had not attended either school.
Bob saying he had Duxler and Hohsfield at MIt and Caltech at 45:30 youtu.be... .
The start shows Bob's new corvette with MJ-12 plates.

Here is Hohsfield in Bob's HS yearbook of the time - Bottom left -> i.imgur.com...
..
Here is William Duxler listed at Pierce College - Scroll to the bottom right:
i.imgur.com...
Here is an article on Duxler when he retired in 2012:
theroundupnews.com...

A "friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend" told me that a new power source had been discovered. And I had read about Dr. Wen Ho Lee's claim about holographic dimensional portals.

Is that an extraordinary claim without any extraordinary evidence? And what does it have to do with Lazar? Lockheed Martin claimed in 2014 they were going to have a compact fusion reactor available in the near future, which would be a new power source, but even that is a dubious claim from a source which is far more credible than Lazar.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

Most institutions have Yearbooks. At times throughout the scholastic year … pictures are taken. Also there is usually a formal section of student formal portrait style pictures for those wishing to be included into the yearbook wearing their cap and gown or not.

It is the pictures throughout the year that are sometimes not known by those that end up appearing in those pictures…..such as in the background etc. …..some shots are willing or un-willing group shots, activity shots, campus life shots….etc.

Perhaps BL shows up in a Yearbook somewhere unknowingly to him and others.

So…..if he does, great!

Also, there is no way for entities to retrieve ALL of the Yearbooks distributed so as to Erase him…if he did show up in a picture.

If all the Yearbooks have not been considered in searching for him there……then perhaps they should be.

From the timeline……”“1977 or 78”: Claims to have attended Cal State University, Northridge, “for a short time for some classes”, then on to CalTech.

“The Big T” is the student yearbook for CalTech. At the Millikan Library at CalTech, every page of every issue of “The Big T” from the year 1977 through 1982 was checked. There is no photo or mention of RL anywhere in any of the activities, highly improbable were he a student there.”….

Imo, the above is insufficient……Other purported schools mentioned as having been attended by BL should also have their Yearbooks (if they have them) gone over with a fine tooth comb, as well re looking at CalTech’s Yearbook(s) forensically…..consider it a second opinion.

(I certainly don’t have the means to do so myself)

Here’s an example….of my point, although it’s not a Yearbook picture….

The person pointed to, as others near him, probably where unaware the photo was taken in that spontaneous moment….certainly the persons to the back of the room. It is in these types of shots where BL might be discovered even in Yearbooks.

Incidentally….the person being pointed to (red arrow) …..doesn’t he resemble a young BL?? funny!



👽🛸🧐🍺

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

I have a diploma from my college. Even transcripts. Also, alumni stuff they still send me. If anyone graduated from any of those institutions, they have something to prove they went there. That guy is a proven liar and has no credibility. I didn’t go to my graduation re wasn’t in nay grad books but still have proof I went there.

I have to say, Bob is sketchy. His appearance, his way of talk.

If he was a physicist, you'd think someone, ANYONE, would come out and say:
- I went to school with him.
- The lack of any interviews with his previous spouse is SO FKN GLARING.
- Evidence of any kind whatsoever that he was a physicist. Any person, even just one, that would claim he was his co-worker and that he was a physicist.

So we are only going off the word of a proven con artist.
How reaching could you be.
"But Joe Rogan believes him!"

He comes across to me as a jokester. A super devious and clever jokester, where the joke just went way further than he could have imagined, and now he is all in.

If Bob was proven to be a fake at this point, which I believe he is, then Bob Knapp would be 100% ridiculed out of journalism, and would be "THE EXAMPLE" of con artist journalism for centuries. Of course Bob Knapp is not interested in finding evidence that Lazar is lying.

So I am stating my opinion. My opinion is based on common sense. Simple adult common sense.
I know some will say "But the GOVT deleted his files". Yeah, I worked and still work in the Govt. Do you people actually think the Govt is competent enough to do all this? If so, then you definitely believe in fairy tales.

Bob could produce one, just one example of him being or working as a physicist I would give an ounce of credibility.
But he hasn't, and so I won't. And nobody should.

I just wonder if on his deathbed he will divulge the obvious? I very seriously doubt he would.

I always found the story of Bob Lazar fascinating and interesting on Joe Rogan he mentioned that a UFO was found during a archaeology digging?

a reply to: stealthskater

"(Another Roswell theory is that the UFO story was contrived to flush Soviet spies out of the surrounding territory that in 1947 housed the World's only atomic weapons."

Phooey to that theory which belongs in the same almost-full dustbin that holds the Betty Hill, Travis Walton and the myriad of fake alien abduction claims. What happened near Roswell, NM in 1947 regarding a fake UFO event has a reliable provenance describing the true non-event in detail that is historical. Only the gullible believe the popular but erroneous version or the above theory.

I see it like this. I don't believe any of his story. However, I do believe that Bob himself believes his story. Many lie detectors and body language experts also cannot find indicators of lies from him. It is like he genuinely believes his story. We do know he was working to some degree on that base. Was there some MK-Ultra like crap going on when he was there either mopping the floors or working in a lab? Who can say

It's really up to Bob and his enablers to prove Bob not only saw something out of this world, but worked on alien technology. So far not one of them has come up with anything but flaky unsubstantiated stories. Using their imagination to fill in the gaps.

If people want the real truth, it's out there if you look for it. But most 'Bob Bleevers' are too dumb or lazy to do so. The onus is not on others to prove Bob's story isn't true. We can't prove Bob didn't have a gay love affair with Jeremy Corbell! But that doesn't make it true either!!

Public records however show Bob cannot be trusted.

Bob fled Los Alamos and went bankrupt in 1986 and owed thousands to numerous people including his parents





Source : Public records, Case BK 86-01623, US Federal Bankruptcy Court, Las Vegas.

Bob supposedly fitted cameras at his "Skin Worker Ranch" allegedly in an attempt to blackmail some of the regulars! He was charged for pandering in 1990.

www.youtube.com...

Here's what his Case Parole Officer had to say about him



They are just a few examples. There's a lot more including some very suspicious circumstances surrounding Bob and the death of his first wife.

originally posted by: mirageman
It's really up to Bob and his enablers to prove Bob not only saw something out of this world, but worked on alien technology. So far not one of them has come up with anything but flaky unsubstantiated stories. Using their imagination to fill in the gaps.

If people want the real truth, it's out there if you look for it. But most 'Bob Bleevers' are too dumb or lazy to do so. The onus is not on others to prove Bob's story isn't true. We can't prove Bob didn't have a gay love affair with Jeremy Corbell! But that doesn't make it true either!!

Public records however show Bob cannot be trusted.

Bob fled Los Alamos and went bankrupt in 1986 and owed thousands to numerous people including his parents

Bob supposedly fitted cameras at his "Skin Worker Ranch" allegedly in an attempt to blackmail some of the regulars! He was charged for pandering in 1990.

Here's what his Case Parole Officer had to say about him

They are just a few examples. There's a lot more including some very suspicious circumstances surrounding Bob and the death of his first wife.

I have never understood nor accepted the fascination with Bob Lazar. Has anyone claimed to have seen the alien craft that is attributed to Lazar's efforts aside from the TESTORS UFO plastic model kit?

a reply to: idusmartias

John Lear and his tall stories lit the spark. But a lot of it was originally generated by the longtime media and PR representative for the 'Vegas UFO Mob'.

Knapp literally built his career on the story. Doubling and trebling down on it for a long, long time. Promoting a complete baffling mystery to him that he could talk about endlessly and charge money for people to hear him talk about it. Failing to look in the right places, losing evidence, forgetting where the E115 was buried, and not asking the right questions to the right people all contributed to this ever growing myth.

But the internet eventually caught up and now provides lots of information about Lazar's dodgy dealings. It makes Knapp look either stupidly incompetent or, more likely, someone who concealed the real truth because it made him a small fortune. His protege with the luxuriant Taliban style beard is also moving up market with a $1.8m piece of Californian real estate..

Who says there's no money in ufology? Especially if you don't tell the full truth.

a reply to: mirageman

Well, that's really telling / amusing.

I especially like how the linked article shares the fable
of anomalous electromagnetic activity being in the area.

I guess this is JC's new 'work from home' project...
and admittedly, it's a much nicer piece of property
than nasty old polluted SWR.

Also very interesting:

To explain the spiritual pull that Ojai (population 7,900) exerts on some residents, Wood noted that the area was the site of a sacred burying ground of the Chumash Indians and is the home of Meditation Mount, the Krotona Institute of Theosophy and a library housing works by the late philosopher Jiddu Krishnamurti,

ref: www.latimes.com...

So it's a THREEFER. I guess it really pays to do your homework, when buying the next (more positive) SWR.

1. Mysterious mountain for UFOs to linger over - check!
2. Myterious Theosophy institute -check!
3. An Indian burial ground -check!

I cant find the video, but the brilliance of the govt was to bring on Lazar to leak the S4 story knowing they could easily discredit him later on. Was he leaking the truth? Who knows, he has no credibility, they wanted the info out there and Lazar was the perfect man to do it.


Edit : Found the video
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
I cant find the video, but the brilliance of the govt was to bring on Lazar to leak the S4 story knowing they could easily discredit him later on. Was he leaking the truth? Who knows, he has no credibility, they wanted the info out there and Lazar was the perfect man to do it.


Edit : Found the video
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I just tortured myself, something I rarely do. I listened to the whole 12:52 video. Almost 13 minutes of boring, who gives a flying... about an old inconsequential subject and people. Lazar is so passe. I'm done with him. However, if I ever get a chance to talk to him all I would ask him is why did "his" UFO resemble "Billy"Meier's who is discredited as a hoaxer. Was Meier ever in Area 51?

a reply to: mirageman

It boils down to 15 minutes of fame and capitalism 😉

👽🛸🥃

a reply to: idusmartias

There is video somewhere of Lazar being asked that question, he doesnt really have a good answer, shocking I know..