Rendlesham Forest 1980 Pt II - Will There Be An Answer?

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Rather than relying on "he said, she said" rumour mill stuff I've added a few bonafide documents.

It should be noted that Halt and his superiors were all surprised that the MoD did not act on the memo.

There is nothing in the Halt Memo that requests specific action by the MoD. Moreland's note (dated two further days later) does subtly suggest "....action as considered necessary"



However the MoD already knew Halt had called in a radar search at 03:25 on the 28th December 1980. So would be fully aware that 'something' was going on at Bentwaters/Woodbridge. This was also some 17 days before the Halt memo left Don Moreland's office (15th Jan 1981) on its way to MoD MoD land.



I would guess, whether rightly or wrongly, they considered they'd already taken any necessary action....

Except that on 20th Jan 1981....A further memo was sent from RAF Sqd. Ldr Badcock (originally dated 16th Feb 1981) to DS8 (UK MoD).



And there the paper trail appears to have ended...

originally posted by: mirageman

Except that on 20th Jan 1981....A further memo was sent from RAF Sqd. Ldr Badcock (originally dated 16th Feb 1981) to DS8 (UK MoD)...

And there the paper trail appears to have ended...

In 2014, the intrepid Conk Pipe got excited about General Gabriel's visit...

The significance of this seems to have been lost over the years.The American government’s public position is that they haven’t investigated UFOs since 1969, when Project Blue Book was terminated. If that’s the case, why on earth did this happen? I think the missing link could be the file that must have been drawn up by General Gabriel, who flew back from having been briefed about the incident.

We know he took various documents and the audio recording known as the Halt Tape. We know defence intelligence staff assessed radiation levels as significantly higher than background levels. We spoke to the disaster preparedness officer who went back to the clearing and discovered that the trees facing the landing site were scorched. That physical evidence must have gone back with the General.

However, as you say, there the trail ends...

RFI fans must have jumped up and down about the plural nature of "recorders" in the RAF memo. Which reminds me: despite strange statements by Halt to Bruni that he had at least four hours' worth of tape recordings (perhaps he meant his separate personally recorded account for posterity... but FOUR hours?), do we assume Gabriel took the original mini-cassette(s), and that the tape found in an office drawer (copies of which were distributed to researchers in 1984) was the first-generation version of the tape used to copy the original via an external mic?

Regarding questions of the current tape being edited (something Andrew Pike was convinced did happen), Halt has admitted that he skipped certain sections from the original such as animal noises, so what ELSE was skipped? The hour-long gap between studying the red object floating through the trees and suddenly being in the farmer's field led to acres of speculation.

One would think the dramatic moment in the memo when the object split into separate lights in the field (as confirmed by Nevels when interviewed) at least demanded a passing comment on the tape, even if not contemporaneously.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Yeh well old Conk Pipe likes to hype one of his 'signature' cases to keep the media spotlight there. Just like the pretty much solved Cosford Case in 1993 he likes to talk about as still a mystery.

He says:

We know defence intelligence staff assessed radiation levels as significantly higher than background levels. We spoke to the disaster preparedness officer who went back to the clearing and discovered that the trees facing the landing site were scorched. That physical evidence must have gone back with the General.

Well actually the defence intelligence staff didn't assess the radiation levels as such. They responded in a loose minute that the levels seemed higher than average background of 0.01 mR/h.



However the Halt Tape never mentions more than “seven tenths”or 0.07 mR/h which was a spike in the reading and later Giles Cowling confirmed in 1998

“In my original discussions with Mr Pope I did indeed state that the readings were around 10 times normal background levels, provided that the instrument was appropriate for measuring background radiation (at the time of our discussions he could not state what the instrument was), calibrated and being used/interpreted correctly. I share the NRPB view that the use of a high-range survey instruments to measure (accurately) environmental levels of radiation is somewhat questionable and this must throw some doubt on the validity of the data reported.”

Source

As for the tree damage. That could easily be the markings by the Forestry Commission as the trees were due to be felled in early 1981.

Next I come onto the statement ;

We know he [Gen.Gabriel] took various documents and the audio recording known as the Halt Tape.

Well I've read that memo a few times and it says.

"...I asked if the incident was reported on the USAF net and was advised that tape recorders of the evidence were handed to General Gabriel....

Now I say that you could interpret that as recordings (recorders also seems a strange word to use) from the USAF net. Or in other words the taped recordings of radio transmissions between personnel that night. I think it is wrong to just assume that he took a cassette recording of the Halt tape. I don't believe I've ever heard anyone confirm exactly what it was Gabriel took away with him. But I'm sure a cassette tape could easily have been securely couriered to him at USAFE HQ in Rammstein.

What do you think?

a reply to: mirageman

I've always thought Pope was onto a loser with the radiation readings, an area well covered by Ridpath - whose site I have been perusing again (since it often helps to start from a basis of NOTHING paranormal occurring). As persuasive as Ian can be, and considering how he promotes original documentation as the true key, the selective choice of later quotes from personnel who support his case (eg, Armold) and ignoring others, leaves an uneasy ambience in his otherwise impeccable thesis.

(Regarding allegations of edits to Halt's tape, Ridpath's transcript reminded me of the confusion/suspicion over what was said at a certain point when Halt states they are seeing a light for the first time despite having encountered it previously - Ridpath translated Halt's words as seeing their first "night bird" rather than "light". Just an amusing anecdote!)

Re the RAF memo, yes, "recorders" does sound odd. It could simply be a typo, of course. Gabriel taking Halt's original mini-cassette is definitely not confirmed by any documentation, whatever Pope may imply, and the recordings of the radio transmissions seems more likely.

There are three elements not disclosed to the public that may yet help close the case:

1) The radio transmission recordings across all three nights.
2) Halt's original mini-cassette, which I assume he possesses - the TRUE original (singular or plural), not the endless alternate versions or even the one left in the base commander's desk drawer - all of which feature unrelated and rather 'polluting' sound effects from the room where the primitive copying of the true original occurred.
3) The original statements from the third night.

That's not like asking for the Moon, is it? And then we can all go home... back down that Long and Winding Road...

One more question about the tape that perhaps MM can answer.

I have always assumed that Halt himself made the crude copy of the original micro-cassette via an external mic propped up against the handheld device. Mainly because Ian Ridpath's site states this, Morgan having sent him a copy.

Other researchers have said Morgan himself was responsible for the crude copy (which he sent to interested parties in 1984) after finding the original micro-cassette in a desk drawer.

An important difference. Who's right? It's hard to believe that Halt simply dumped the original in a desk drawer and forgot about it, so I'll conclude that Ridpath is correct.


Blimey... quiet around here, ain't it? Have all the regulars been taken outside and shot?

Still not able to ‘let it be’ eh?

Maybe this can be of interest:

“[on September 7. 1984] Joeri Kabatsjnikov was exposed to EM radiation with unknown physical attributes. The ECG and electroencephalogram data seem to show brain and heart muscle damage that was caused by a relatively thin beam. The detected anomalies are unique and have never been described in the medical literature (as stated by treating physician Dr Konstantin Tsindadze)”

I recently read this in a 1991 book on UFO cases in the Soviet Union by Col. Marina Popovitsj. Made me think of Burroughs’ case which is why I post it here. The book is in German, haven’t been able to find an English translation.

Joeri Kabatsjnikov – the one with the heart damage - was the copilot on a flight from St Petersburg to Tbilisi that encountered a UFO.

The UFO was first spotted by a second flight, from Tbilisi to Tallin. The commander on this second flight was Igor Tskerkasjin. His eye witness report is included in the book.

According to Tskerkasjin, the UFO first looked like a yellow ‘blot’. It emitted a thin beam of light towards the surface. The beam widened to a very bright cone. It then swerved towards Tskerkasjin’s plane. The crew now saw a blinding white spot surrounded by colored rings. Suddenly the spot flared up and turned into a green cloud.

The ‘cloud’ decended below the plane, got straight up again, moved a bit from left to right, back down, back up, and finally chose position diagonally behind the plane.

Lights could be seen ‘playing’ inside the cloud, like lights in a Christmas tree that went on and off. The ‘cloud’ was also seen from the tower at Minsk. It was green and yellow and seemed to have a solid core inside.

This was the moment that Kabatsjnikov’s plane entered the area, about 100 km distance from Tskerkasjin’s plane. Kabatsjnikov’s plane was asked by the tower to observe the object. The crew was blinded by it, and only able to see properly again when they were at 15 km from Tskerkasjin’s plane.

4 years after Rendlesham, a ‘blot/cloud’ with small lights inside emitting pencil and cone shaped beams, heart damage - it all sounds familiar doen't it?

a reply to: Guest101

Wow.

a reply to: Guest101

Do you have any links to any other articles or anything like that 101? I got a first time "googlewhack" when searching the Joeri's name....

If we can find a pdf of the book we can easily put it through a translator online.Marina had an interesting history also, from the link you provided;

"Marina Popovich spoke about her experience with UFOs in her book titled UFO Glasnost (published in 2003 in Germany) and in public lectures and interviews.

She claimed that the Soviet military and civilian pilots had confirmed 3000 UFO sightings and that the Soviet Air Force and KGB had recovered fragments of five crashed UFOs. The crash sites were Tunguska (1908), Novosibirsk, Tallinn, Ordzhonikidze and Dalnegorsk (1986)."

a reply to: pigsy2400

There seems to be a very, very similar story that also occurred on 7th September 1984.

Once a UFO case becomes "a classic," no amount of logic can convince some people that a prosaic explanation holds sway. Take the sighting made in the pre-dawn darkness of Friday,September 7, 1984, when a Soviet Aeroflot airliner was flying north from Belorussia toward Estonia. At 4:10 a.m., passing Minsk, the co-pilot noticed a bright light ahead and to the right. For the next several minutes, the light, or whatever it was, supposedly escorted the airliner along its path....

Captain Igor Cherkashin called the local traffic control, who saw nothing in the sky. But after several minutes of searching on radar, ground controllers reported a funny "double image,"presumed by some to be the airliner and its escort from beyond. As the radar was tracking,co-pilot Gennadli Lazurin grabbed his logbook and began making sketches of the apparition as it changed shape, color, and size. Its scintillating sequences of color were so bright the crew could see its reflection in the ground below.....

Years after the original report, pundits started discussing another civil airliner, one supposedly heading in the opposite direction, that had observed the strange lights as well.According to rumor swirling around the UFO community, this second craft had been a military interceptor sent up to chase the UFO. Its pilot reportedly died a year later of cancer,and its co-pilot suffered heart problems. A stewardess was said to have contracted a mysterious skin disease.To some investigators on the case, the medical puzzle had an obvious explanation: thepoisonous rays of the UFO. Russian UFO-watcher Antonio Huneeus later called it "one of the most serious UFO injury cases ever reported."....

But despite all the theories, a prosaic explanation exists. It turns out that just when the pilots in the first craft glimpsed the mysterious lights, a Soviet military missile was being launched.In fact, the sketches by co-pilot Lazurin show a distinct sequence of lights - first rays,concentric circles, and expanding rings, then a cloud, and finally, a fading amorphous mass...

As for the radar sightings and health problems, skeptics dismiss them as coincidence and exaggeration. Most people "exposed" to the UFO, after all, were not affected, and those who were seem to have been injured in strikingly different ways.

See : Omni 1994

The piece is written and researched by our very own Jim Oberg. A respected (by people who don't believe that every UFO every reported is an alien spacecraft) space historian. Be the judge yourself of its accuracy compared to the Popovich version

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: Guest101

Do you have any links to any other articles or anything like that 101? I got a first time "googlewhack" when searching the Joeri's name....

Tip: Search for Ю. Кабачников НЛО and let Google translate the (Russian) pages.

Found an online book by Marina Popovitsj here:
litresp.ru...

And even a kind of medical report about Yuri Kabachnikov here:
forum.vtomske.ru...

NOTE: Google translation from Russian
Ministry of Health of the Georgian SSR
Research Institute of Experimental and Clinical Therapy
Tbilisi-59, Digomsky massif, st. Lyublinskaya, 4 ¦ 704/2 June 23, 1986

CONCLUSION

Kabachnikov Yu. I. Born 7 / IX-1984, born 1938, performed flight 7084 en route Leningrad-Boryspil-Batumi-Tbilisi as a co-pilot. Next to him was the commander of the aircraft Gotsiridze V. V. In the area of the Minsk air zone, the plane met UNCERTAINED FLYING ABOUT ECT. When the aircraft is within 35 km of the UFO, the aircraft was exposed to radiation. As a result of irradiation, Kabachnikov Yu. I. suffered damage to the head and heart, and V. Gotsiridze in the area of the spleen. October 18, 1985 Gotsiridze was diagnosed with multiple myeloma, as a result of which gangrene also died in November 1985.

Kabachnikov Yu.I. was examined by the Kiev Medical-Flight Expert Commission, then by the Central Medical-Flight Expert Commission of the USSR Ministry of Civil Aviation, and in 1986 by the Radioimmunological Center of the Ministry of Health of the GSSR and at the Institute of Clinical and Experimental Cardiology. Y. Tsinamdzgvrishvili Ministry of Health of the Georgian SSR. VLEK diagnosed myocardiodystrophy and recognized Yu. I. Kabachnikova unfit for flight work. During inpatient examination at the Research Institute of Cardiology using radiobiological, biochemical, electrocardiographic and electroencephalographic methods of investigation, the diagnosis of coronary heart disease was established.

Attention should be paid to the marked electrical alternation of the heart muscle of unknown etiology, as well as the electrical alternation of the electroencephalogram. In addition, there are signs of direct lesion of the heart muscle in the form of chronic coronary insufficiency and heart rhythm disorders.

From here it should be concluded that Kabachnikov Yu. I. was subjected to radiation electromagnetic influence of an unknown physical characteristic. Judging by the ECG and EEG, the impact was relatively narrow beam from the areas of the frontal lobes of the brain to the heart. The impact was local in nature and caused damage to the brain tissue and heart muscle. Direct damage to the muscle of the heart led to the development of cardiomyopathy with symptoms of chronic non-arteriosclerotic coronary insufficiency.

Damage to brain tissue and heart has not stopped for one and a half years, as evidenced by persistent electrical alteration of the heart and brain muscles.

So, Kabachnikov Yu. I. was injured in the form of a unique damage to the muscles of the heart and brain during the performance of official duties.

Identified abnormalities in the heart muscle and electroencephalogram are unique, as they are not described in medicine, due to the unusual and unique situation in which the pilot Kabachnikov Yu was injured. I. Kabachnikov Yu. I. may be qualified as an occupational injury resulting from exposure while on duty.

Head Department of Pathophysiology, Institute of Experimental and Clinical Therapy, Ministry of Health of the Georgian SSR, Doctor of Medical Sciences, Professor KI TsINTSADZE

a reply to: Guest101

And even a kind of medical report about Yuri Kabachnikov here:

I would say that forum.vtomske.ru... is a Russian forum discussing a 1989 UFO case.

I am convinced that this episode is a part of the Sept 7th 1984 Minsk UFO which has been explained both above and here: The Minsk UFO Case

That mentions Kabachnikov and Gotsiridze [Gorridze]. Even if we believe the reports neither men were diagnosed until 1985 and 1986 of their conditions.

The case is also mentioned in Jacques Vallee's - UFO Chronicles of the Soviet Union(1992). Where the story is that one of the pilots appears to have died immediately!



What we appear to have is a story as equally as vague in specific details of what really happened as Rendlesham. But with the equal eagerness to amplify the story with additional factoids to make the case appear more mysterious and unusual than perhaps it really was.

originally posted by: mirageman

Well I've read that memo a few times and it says.

"...I asked if the incident was reported on the USAF net and was advised that tape recorders of the evidence were handed to General Gabriel....

Now I say that you could interpret that as recordings (recorders also seems a strange word to use) from the USAF net. Or in other words the taped recordings of radio transmissions between personnel that night. I think it is wrong to just assume that he took a cassette recording of the Halt tape. I don't believe I've ever heard anyone confirm exactly what it was Gabriel took away with him. But I'm sure a cassette tape could easily have been securely couriered to him at USAFE HQ in Rammstein.

What do you think?

Even if he "happened" to be visiting it seems to me odd that someone in his position would involve himself.

Do we know when exactly it was that Gabriel popped by?

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

He [Gabriel] already dropped by earlier in December 1980 according the the Wing Commander (Williams). Now maybe he regularly visited his important USAFE bases every month. But the fact that he just happened to be there?

Pope Nicholas takes up the story.

a reply to: mirageman

Clearly nothing came of his request for further documentation. If he was a regular visitor surely it'd been harmless to release confirmation that he "happened" to pass by on a monthly basis. Knowing that when I turn a phrase like "happened to be visiting" I am implying that there was no happenstance at all involved, I am tempted to read the same into it's use here. I can't help but feel Badcock (really?) was being a little sarky. My feelings obviously don't constitute "evidence" though.

If he was there by chance it seems even more ludicrous that he should take possession of recordings unless it was communicated to him as a serious incident. If he was there expressly because of the incident then that also would suggest the incident was being taken seriously. You would think that there would be some written response to his having examined the recordings. It becomes more suspicious if there isn't because surely whoever gave him the tapes would have followed up had Gabriel not responded in due course.

It all adds to the oddness pile that points to something happening but does little to add to the what.

The description given by Bustinza of the lights breaking up seems to be describing the same thing that John Simpson described to the Sun newspaper as happening just after nine on Christmas night (published 27th December) "...Suddenly it got brighter and it seemed to jettison five or six smaller lights which all shot off in the same direct flight pattern at a rapid speed leaving a blue trail behind them."

Bustinza's description from the 2015 interview, "one point where the light, one of the lights, broke out into about five different smaller lights. It was like a big ball and it just kind of burst like fireworks do and it broke out and they maneouvered and they just left."

Mrs Margaret Hopkins, again in the Sun, "Four of us saw six lights moving in a convoy...two in front had dim white lights two in the middle had bright lights and two in the rear also had dim lights."

Bustinza's account sits comfortably between those two for me but makes everything else rather uncomfortable.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

If the head of the USAF in Europe just happened to visiting and took away 'recordings'. That reads to me as someone wanted this incident investigated at a very high level. Trespassing on British soil was probably a minor concern. But there were surely concerns about certain resources stored on the base and whether there had been a breach in security. You can speculate further of course.

The Badcock memo also states;

Perhaps it would be reasonable to ask if we could have the tape recordings as well.''

Which I would surmise as diplomatic language and purposeful understatement. Really meaning that the British were incensed that they were not being kept in the loop by the Americans. But that appears to be where the paper trail passes from British to American jurisdiction.

a reply to: mirageman

If Bustinza and Burroughs' story of a special aircraft (a C-5, says the latter) arriving a couple of days after the Third Night is accurate - and remember Bustinza was in charge of security for that arrival, so we can assume it IS accurate - perhaps Gabriel was on that flight. Both airmen recall the forest bustling with military activity, including helicopters, so it seems a thorough sweep of the area may have occurred. But why EXACTLY? Was something removed from the forest? Why did Bustinza say the 'object' remained in the forest for two days? Was something distinctly Earthly repaired and taken away, hence all that mad Busty bollocks about 'calling engineering to repair a UFO'?

And there was definitely activity in the forest on Night Two with light-alls set up in the forest. Battram seemed to think it was a regular exercise, but was there more to it than that? Did Ball arrange it all AFTER Bonnie Tamplin's traumatic sighting?

We can only speculate, of course, but as the RFI grows ever more bonkers in the hands of the main players, the whole soap-opera can be just as entertaining for us as it is for them. The closer we get to solving this case, the more disappointed 'others' will be.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Guest101

And even a kind of medical report about Yuri Kabachnikov here:

I would say that forum.vtomske.ru... is a Russian forum discussing a 1989 UFO case.

No, this is a verbatim passage from a medical report by the Ministry of Health of the Georgian SSR Research Institute.
You can see the same passage I posted above on a website that analyses the case in detail, with a sceptical view. The writer states (emphasis mine):

There is reason to believe that the tragic medical consequences associated with the events of the memorable night of September 7, 1984 are those that cost the life of the first pilot of the Tbilisi plane V. V. Gotsiridze and turned Yu. I. Kabachnikov into a disabled pilot. The stewardess S. Orlova also became seriously ill.
However, first, refer to the document, a copy of which is in my archive:

After which he repeats the verbatim passage included in my post above
Scroll to about 80% here: vadim-andreev.narod.ru...

originally posted by: mirageman
If the head of the USAF in Europe just happened to visiting and took away 'recordings'. That reads to me as someone wanted this incident investigated at a very high level. Trespassing on British soil was probably a minor concern. But there were surely concerns about certain resources stored on the base and whether there had been a breach in security. You can speculate further of course.

Ta, very much, I will.

I can imagine that if, as has been repeatedly inferred and indeed promoted by the airmen involved, there were "nukes" on the base then it may have got Gabriel's attention because the last thing they wanted was attention being paid to the bases and the weapons there-in.

More speculatively, it could also be inferred that from the perspective of the base commanders Gabriel did just happen to be passing and just happened to find the command in a tizzy but from the perspective of the RAF there was no happenstance involved, ie, that the RAF were somewhat aware that the bases had the attention of Gabriel even if they were not wholly cognizant of the reasons why.

originally posted by: mirageman
The Badcock memo also states;

Perhaps it would be reasonable to ask if we could have the tape recordings as well.''

Which I would surmise as diplomatic language and purposeful understatement. Really meaning that the British were incensed that they were not being kept in the loop by the Americans. But that appears to be where the paper trail passes from British to American jurisdiction.

Indeed. A number of somethings can be presumed to have happened verbally and off-the-record. Re-reading the Halt memo and whatever Moreland may or may not have believed himself personally, it's a pretty inflammatory document. I know RAF types are renowned for having the stiffest of upper lips but from any number of perspectives it should have piqued someone's interest.

I kind of wonder, the sudden spurt of leaks of an alien landing to the UFO community, very targeted leaks, whether the RAF/MoD failed to play whatever role had been written for them.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
And there was definitely activity in the forest on Night Two with light-alls set up in the forest. Battram seemed to think it was a regular exercise, but was there more to it than that? Did Ball arrange it all AFTER Bonnie Tamplin's traumatic sighting?

I can't quite get my head around Bustinza's response to Burroughs' question of how many people he remembered being "out there" (if I have the time-line as clear as I can in my head, this would be when the Halt party were still in the forest), "30 to 50...at least". And, all the chatter going on over the radios to the extent that no one really knew what they were supposed to be doing, but presumably this excitement is what brought all those people out to the fringes of the woods, it was a diversion from an otherwise routine existence, perhaps. But, we add to that Bustinza's comments about people "crying" and not liking it, his having to calm them down, send them back to "point". That whole scenario is just bizarre, like there were people coming down from a bad trip, or suffering withdrawal of some kind or of course, being exposed to some environmental, man-made or otherwise, factor that could also cause those kind of symptoms.

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout

I can't quite get my head around Bustinza's response to Burroughs' question of how many people he remembered being "out there" (if I have the time-line as clear as I can in my head, this would be when the Halt party were still in the forest), "30 to 50...at least".

... But, we add to that Bustinza's comments about people "crying" and not liking it, his having to calm them down, send them back to "point".

Halt himself states there were "about 25 people out in the forest" milling around when he arrived - "It was a public relations disaster". Battram and his party had been genuinely spooked by lights in a ground mist, and basically 'ran away', so Bustinza's consoling most likely referred to one of those [cough] tough guys, before Englund informed Halt.

I doubt the numbers were due to a military exercise since that had occurred on the second night (26th-27th), so maybe 'UFO fever' was in the air after two nights of strange activity and a load of rubber-neckers amassed after Battram was given permission to investigate further lights.

That whole scenario is just bizarre, like... being exposed to some environmental, man-made or otherwise, factor that could also cause those kind of symptoms.

Quite. Enviromental or man-made - that is the question. ET? Nahhhh.