Rendlesham Forest 1980 Pt II - Will There Be An Answer?

It was a only a possible public relations disaster when Halt went out. Why were so many air force troops milling around outside the base?

To this day it has never been confirmed whether the British authorities were notified. As the Suffolk police never mentioned anything in their files then it would seem they weren't.

For a very critical view try this : Stomping around, goofing off - Why the US Air Force and the British MoD kept quiet about the Rendlesham Forest Incident

Although it's not particularly my viewpoint before anyone asks.

LARRY WARREN UPDATE...

As the 'Capel Green' film approaches, Larry Warren came in from the cold this month to address allegations from online “terrorists” (as he calls some online critics) over the years, which will be relevant to the RFI and this thread. Larry, who looks very fit and healthy since we last saw him, also reveals that his mother (whom he wrote to after the RFI) sadly died two months ago. RIP, Mrs Warren.

(I don't follow tedious Facebook/Twitter arguments, but I guess this video is guaranteed to cause more flame wars out there - life is too short for repellent arguments going back and forth where nobody on any side comes out smelling of roses.)





The online charges addressed are as follows:


CHARGE: Larry is anti-Semitic and homophobic.

I know nothing of this and the relevance to UFOs seems lost, but latest collaborator Gary Heseltine's reputation is arguably at stake. Larry's defence is along the lines that some of his best relatives and friends were/are Jewish/gay. Sounds truthful but hardly of interest to this thread.


CHARGE: Larry forged photographs of himself with celebrities.

Larry's links to John Lennon are raised by a Daily Post article from Dec 2000 (“Way before the invention of the internet” says Gary shamelessly) that mentioned his Lennon memorabilia - sold to finance the 'Left At East Gate' book as well as the costs of moving to England. His co-author Peter Robbins attended auction houses with Larry.

The allegedly photo-shopped pics are discussed, one showing Robert Plant with his arm around Larry – a genuine original print, as are pics with Jim Marrs, Willie Nelson and Stevie Ray Vaughan; Larry claims a fake version of the latter (ie made to look obviously false) was created by detractors. One pic with Yoko Ono in front of the Dakota Building is also genuine.


CHARGE: Larry's A10 pic was taken later than claimed; he never met Dr J. Allen Hynek; and author Barry Greenwood fell out with Peter Robbins.

Larry presents a never-before-seen Sept 1983 letter to Warren from Larry Fawcett, thanking him for some photographs and asking:

“Is that aircraft an A10 over the woods? Barry and I would love to use some of your pictures, but our publisher says it will cost too much. So we will be using just FOIA documents for the book; we'll include the Halt memo, of course.”

So the photo was not taken at a later date (1985) as claimed by detractors.

Heseltine is given a letter dated Nov 17th 1985, sent by a potential co-author to Larry "on behalf of" J. Allen Hynek at MUFON, proving Larry had met the good Doctor.

Another letter dated 2nd April 1991, from Barry Greenwood to Peter Robbins, mentions how the producers of 'Unsolved Mysteries' had called Greenwood, who in turn directed them to Larry and Peter.


CHARGE: Larry had access to Ground Zero after 9/11.

Larry's brother worked in Tower 2 and was injured. His now sister-in-law worked in Lower Manhattan. Larry (who lived in Liverpool) had an inside 'Federal' friend who helped get Larry into Ground Zero on four occasions shortly after 9/11. Genuine photographs prove he was there (and he gave the NYC police a British 'bobbie' helmet for auction to raise funds) Larry's ex-wife confirmed he went there despite having a toddler at the time.

Larry also argues that HE himself asked for 'Left At East Gate' to be withdrawn, providing an email as evidence. Also, he vows that it will be re-published.



Larry Warren's participation in the RFI remains controversial, of course, but the attacks on his honesty before the incident and since (whether related to the RFI or not) are tackled with gusto and a fair amount of evidence. Whether they raise MORE questions is up to those who made the allegations. Personally I'm tired of the whole Warren story, but the above info is relevant to interested parties here, and it's only fair to provide it.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: pigsy2400

There seems to be a very, very similar story that also occurred on 7th September 1984.

Once a UFO case becomes "a classic," no amount of logic can convince some people that a prosaic explanation holds sway. Take the sighting made in the pre-dawn darkness of Friday,September 7, 1984, when a Soviet Aeroflot airliner was flying north from Belorussia toward Estonia. At 4:10 a.m., passing Minsk, the co-pilot noticed a bright light ahead and to the right. For the next several minutes, the light, or whatever it was, supposedly escorted the airliner along its path....

Captain Igor Cherkashin called the local traffic control, who saw nothing in the sky. But after several minutes of searching on radar, ground controllers reported a funny "double image,"presumed by some to be the airliner and its escort from beyond. As the radar was tracking,co-pilot Gennadli Lazurin grabbed his logbook and began making sketches of the apparition as it changed shape, color, and size. Its scintillating sequences of color were so bright the crew could see its reflection in the ground below.....

Years after the original report, pundits started discussing another civil airliner, one supposedly heading in the opposite direction, that had observed the strange lights as well.According to rumor swirling around the UFO community, this second craft had been a military interceptor sent up to chase the UFO. Its pilot reportedly died a year later of cancer,and its co-pilot suffered heart problems. A stewardess was said to have contracted a mysterious skin disease.To some investigators on the case, the medical puzzle had an obvious explanation: thepoisonous rays of the UFO. Russian UFO-watcher Antonio Huneeus later called it "one of the most serious UFO injury cases ever reported."....

But despite all the theories, a prosaic explanation exists. It turns out that just when the pilots in the first craft glimpsed the mysterious lights, a Soviet military missile was being launched.In fact, the sketches by co-pilot Lazurin show a distinct sequence of lights - first rays,concentric circles, and expanding rings, then a cloud, and finally, a fading amorphous mass...

As for the radar sightings and health problems, skeptics dismiss them as coincidence and exaggeration. Most people "exposed" to the UFO, after all, were not affected, and those who were seem to have been injured in strikingly different ways.

See : Omni 1994

The piece is written and researched by our very own Jim Oberg. A respected (by people who don't believe that every UFO every reported is an alien spacecraft) space historian. Be the judge yourself of its accuracy compared to the Popovich version

Thanks for the mention. The key to the event appears to be the sequence of sketches made by one pilot, that are very faithful to the classic cloud/plume quickly-changing forms of a missile launch [UFO versions of the story, AFAIK, ignore those sketches]. Add to this that such missile plume illumination opportunities require a fairly narrow clock window of illumination conditions [sun just below the horizon], which are perfectly satisfied for this date/time/location.


Detailed treatment here:
www.csicop.org...
web.archive.org...://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24636796/


The Soviet period of Russian history is characterized, among other uglinesses, by multiple widespread never-acknowledged radiation spillages from military facilities, injuring thousands of people. Kyshtym [1957] is one of dozens of now-known examples. en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

the above info is relevant to interested parties here, and it's only fair to provide it. 

Thank you.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
Halt himself states there were "about 25 people out in the forest" milling around when he arrived - "It was a public relations disaster". Battram and his party had been genuinely spooked by lights in a ground mist, and basically 'ran away', so Bustinza's consoling most likely referred to one of those [cough] tough guys, before Englund informed Halt.

I doubt the numbers were due to a military exercise since that had occurred on the second night (26th-27th), so maybe 'UFO fever' was in the air after two nights of strange activity and a load of rubber-neckers amassed after Battram was given permission to investigate further lights.

Bustinza mentioned that "several" of those milling around were off-duty, their shift having just ended so I agree that it was unlikely to be due to an exercise in progress. Curiousity, excitement, rising to hysteria...which considering the general youth of those involved doesn't seem too outlandish, that that mood is being picked up and acted upon by more senior personnel such as Halt and Conrad is harder to get my head around. No one seems to have even attempted to shut it down or exert their authority, that is perhaps why it could seem like an exercise or experiment, allowed to play out because it is essentially a safe/test area. Or as Mirageman has pointed out, there was some kind of dysfunction in the command.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
Quite. Enviromental or man-made - that is the question. ET? Nahhhh.

Maybe.

a reply to: mirageman

I can't get your link to work. Is it just me? I'm breaking in a new PC so that is a distinct possibility.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Whoops! I seem to have deleted part of the URL.

Try this Stomping around, goofing off - Why the US Air Force and the British MoD kept quiet about the Rendlesham Forest Incident

originally posted by: mirageman
He [Gabriel] already dropped by earlier in December 1980 according the the Wing Commander (Williams). Now maybe he regularly visited his important USAFE bases every month. But the fact that he just happened to be there?

I may have found a possible explanation for Gabriel's attentiveness and why he might have taken to stopping by his bases unannounced and while it does not answer the key questions about RFI it does, I think, fill in some of the background.

At the end of 1979, in response to a bumper opium crop in South-East Asia the Airforce sent out a brief to AFOSI (amongst others) instructing them to collect information relating to drug smuggling and the threat that was posed to the USAF and USAFE transportation system.

b. Report trafficking patterns relating to the planned, alleged or actual use of USAF or USAF-contract aircraft in the illicit transport of drugs...

...

c. Report drug trafficking techniques planned, attempted or used by USAF or USAF-affiliated personnel when the incidents involve other than trafficking on a USAF aircraft...

...

AFOSI Illicit Drug Market Assessments will be reviewed by the preparing AFOSI unit at least monthly. Whenever there is an appreciable change in the type of drug being abused, local availability, or weight, value or purity of drugs being encountered, an updated report will be prepared. Revalidated copies of the assessment will be sent to all distributees on a quarterly basis...”

www.cia.gov...

This was then followed in July 1980 by a report which found there to have not yet been any significant penetration but highlighting that the threat persisted.

The US Air Force's transportation system (USAF) is at risk of infiltration by organizations that control drug trafficking, due to the existence of a lucrative heroin market both in Europe and in the countries bordering the United States.

The European market is already saturated with heroin from Southeast Asia because of its low price and its extreme purity level. The high level of heroin demand from countries bordering the United States represents a serious risk factor according to the DEA.

And in spite of this, about 70% of the heroin present on the streets of the main cities of the United States comes from Southeast Asia.

The contemporary presence in Europe of a huge demand for heroin and US military bases together with the drug demand of countries neighboring the United States represent a major risk factor for the US Air Force.

The internal investigative activity made it possible to verify that during the wide spreading of the report in question, July 1980, no case of international traffic have been detected in Europe, nor in the countries bordering the United States. Usual drug trafficking, both in Europe and in the United States, haven't yet led to the identification of alternative channels of illegal transport, such as the military one.

If criminal organizations would decide to illegally transport large quantities of heroin from Southeast Asia to countries bordering the United States, using either Turkish or Iranian traffickers, US Air Force personnel and the military transport system could be targeted such as an alternative channel. (cm)

blogs.mediapart.fr...

At the beginning of January 1981, Gabriel and those in command of the twin bases would have received the following instructions for their continued war against heroin.

“d. Report any approach of a USAF member that indicates an effort to access the USAF transportation system for the purpose of smuggling illicit drugs. There are indications that organized, civilian criminal elements involved in smuggling operations are resorting to classic hostile intelligence collection techniques in their approaches of civilian aircrew members and maintenance and cargo handling personnel employed by civilian airlines. Specifically, agents of these criminal elements target known “hang-outs” to recruit these civilian airline employees by involving them in compromising situations or by playing on established friendships.”

“Through sources, MCIs, DDD handlers and PAX service representatives, determine the actual customs inspection procedures being practiced at each installation.”

“Through sources and PAX service representatives, identify individuals who frequently travel to or from known source and transit countries (Turkey, Italy, Greece, Germany, Spain and England) to other USAFE areas or the CONUS/ Identify individuals assigned to USAF activities in Germany who travel regularly between West Berlin and/or Frankfurt and other areas of Germany.”

“Through discussion with appropriate commanders/supervisors and customs officials, determine the established customs inspection procedures followed at each installation.”

www.cia.gov...

While this does not inform us about goings on in the woods, it does, for me, explain why there was a lot of unusual activity and as Smith commented, why the base was on and off alert so much around that time. There is no suggestion from me that anyone was involved in heroin smuggling, but tighter controls would have also meant that all contraband would have been in short supply. No cheap booze or fags would have put more than a few noses out of joint I could imagine. Heroin was also really starting to take an upturn in the UK too at that time which may have meant that the RAF and MoD were kept out of the loop because they didn't want to attract attention to a problem until they knew they had one or had solved it.

I don't know, you lot may disagree, but this insight has given me a little texture and depth. It also confirms what Conrad said, AFOSI were up to their necks in trying to find drug traffickers and security leaks at that time.

a reply to: mirageman

Cheers


ETA. Pithy. Quite educational about the intricacies of the legalities involved in going off base, so very interesting in that respect.

Colonel Sam Morgan seems like a bit of a twat.

Thanks.

originally posted by: JimOberg

The Soviet period of Russian history is characterized, among other uglinesses, by multiple widespread never-acknowledged radiation spillages from military facilities, injuring thousands of people. Kyshtym [1957] is one of dozens of now-known examples. en.wikipedia.org...

What caused his injuries (and several others present over the encounter) with the odd Air Form that emitted the Broad Band NIEMR? […] He [John Burroughs] had injuries we now understand are related to narrow RF bandwidths that only in some cases in the past five years have become linked to the specific etiology of cardiac and other injury he suffered.
[…]
The RF is identified in a dozen classified and a half-dozen unclassified studies on cardiological and neurological injuries. […] The data is sparse, it is not properly Peer-reviewed, it is not understood, it is not the subject of current research. And that is the truth.

Christopher C. Green MD, PhD, FAAFS
Source: This forum

When the aircraft is within 35 km of the UFO, the aircraft was exposed to radiation. As a result of irradiation, Kabachnikov Yu. I. suffered damage to the head and heart […] From here it should be concluded that Kabachnikov Yu. I. was subjected to radiation electromagnetic influence of an unknown physical characteristic. […] Identified abnormalities in the heart muscle and electroencephalogram are unique, as they are not described in medicine because of the unusual and unique situation in which the pilot Kabachnikov Yu.I. was injured.

Doctor of Medical Sciences, Professor KI TsINTSADZE
Source: Google translation of vadim-andreev.narod.ru...

Now, whether you think the ‘odd air form’ and the ‘UFO’ are just cover-ups for something more sinister is up to you, but you cannot deny that these descriptions by two independent doctors of injuries, their causes, their level of understanding in medicine, and their uniqueness are very similar. Maybe some governments were doing the same kinds of experiments in the 1980-1984 time frame, or maybe something else was at play.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

A lot of that stuff is actually irrelevant to the Rendlesham case. Although Warren's character can easily be delved into further with a web search. The social media war is a whole unsavoury story of its own which I really don't think is worth revisiting because much of it is not about the RFI.

I think the only things that are related to the case brought up there are the A10 photo which Warren appears to have had a tiny UFO added to it and is in black and white. The original colour photo had no such details and was sent to Larry Fawcett. So (without watching the video) the response is not really relevant either.

Georgina Bruni called Warren out on his own inaccuracies 18 years ago here : Warren v Bruni.

It's also notable that Halt, Burroughs and Penniston refused to have anything to do with the Warren/Heseltine movie and many other secondary witnesses have fallen out with Warren down the years so probably weren't even asked. I think that is about all I will say on the matter.

a reply to: Guest101

In the Netherlands there was the study of Gamma Radiosensitivity of Tomato seeds.
The project was done much earlier, but apparently classified through the early 1960's.
For those of you that remember, the Apollo, MLK disclosures were vanishingly non sequitur.

scialert.net...

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Like I said that's not necessarily my viewpoint as it seems to rely on one person's view of another person. For all we know those off base excursions may have been planned because the USAF was looking for something and it wasn't a UFO.

As regards to the drug problems on the base (and of course other USAF bases) the AFOSI were watching the Twin Bases very closely. Before the incident there had a been a number of drug busts on the base as per Bruni's book "You Can't Tell the People.

Those involved were members of the Security and Law Enforcement Squadrons and they were immediately sent back to the United States. In fact most of the new recruits at Bentwaters in December 1980 were said to have been replacements for those who were transferred....

In fact SSgt Bud Steffens who was one of the first witnesses of the strange lights. He picked up Burroughs to ride patrol the base in his vehicle. Steffens was fairly new to the base at the time so it was a sort of getting to know you exercise. But 'word on the street' was that this was actually to ensure Burroughs didn't stray into certain areas and notice OSI activities going on around him.

I'm not saying that the whole RFI was a UFO cover story so US troops could check that something had been dumped or hidden in woods. But there were ongoing investigations going on at the time.

Georgina Bruni is often mentioned but rarely see anyone comment to this ?

a reply to: Baablacksheep

Well, as you seem to find it interesting by posting it, why don't you comment on it first?

Then maybe it will be clearer for everyone where exactly you are going with it.

a reply to: mirageman

Its clear enough. The late Georgina was convinced it was TTs from our future/dimension according to her research findings. Does that not fit with Jim Pennistons account? Of course it is not evidence, but its interesting considering Jims claims.

a reply to: Baablacksheep

Not exactly because she mentions "another dimension". Now what exactly is another dimension? It's an easy thing to say but not exactly easy to explain. Even from a theoretical point of view.

Bruni also goes on to say just after that passage of text....

It is unlikely that many of us would favour a trip into the past. Indeed, scientists have used the ‘Grandfather Paradox’ as a reason why it is not possible to travel back in time....

So a craft from another time travelled back to 1980 to transmit binary code warning to a bloke who decided to sit on it for 30 years. Even then only revealing it by accident if his story is to be believed.

The Earth moves through space in a galaxy that traverses the universe. Even if time travel of physical object was possible you need to calculate the speed and placement of everything in the universe between the two points in time and locations you are planning to travel back and forth through space/time.Something that would require an almost infinite amount of energy. With almost infinite energy then you could probably do a lot more technologically to save the supposed dying world that the message comes from. So why risk building a time travel machine to send a message to a guy who has no intention of ever revealing it?

Wouldn't you agree?

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

A lot of that stuff is actually irrelevant to the Rendlesham case. Although Warren's character can easily be delved into further with a web search. The social media war is a whole unsavoury story of its own which I really don't think is worth revisiting because much of it is not about the RFI.

Yes, best not to re-ignite that unsavoury conflict HERE. It's a video where Warren proves his memorabilia antics are genuine in SOME areas, yet fails to explain, for example, the infamous Lennon photo of a 40-year-old 18-year-old Warren. The only relevance is in determining Warren's honesty, but since I'm convinced he wasn't a genuine RFI witness to the main events in any case, it's rather a moot point. What's most shocking is seeing grown adults engaging in internet flame wars that would embarrass a five-year-old. Perhaps they're all clinically insane?

I think that is about all I will say on the matter.

Same here. If I get to see the 'Capel Green' film other than by shelling out hard cash for it, I'll post a review. Otherwise, bye-bye, Warren & Co.

As for the time travel bollocks...

So a craft from another time travelled back to 1980 to transmit binary code warning to a bloke who decided to sit on it for 30 years. Even then only revealing it by accident if his story is to be believed.

That sweet summary of the Penniston/Osborn debacle says all that needs to be said.

They're banking on some gullible idiot buying into it, and there will be plenty of them to justify the project in the first place. Just as there will always be idiots who will buy a Katie Price novel. That's how TTSA operates, too, if not most UFOtainment.

a reply to: mirageman

I suggest we ask "Jeeves" or better still Osborn.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I guess one is stuck with John Burroughs then been the flavour of the day along with his special DNA .


And that is really quite the story.