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Rendlesham Forest 1980 Pt II - Will There Be An Answer?

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posted on Feb, 21 2019 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman
In fact SSgt Bud Steffens who was one of the first witnesses of the strange lights. He picked up Burroughs to ride patrol the base in his vehicle. Steffens was fairly new to the base at the time so it was a sort of getting to know you exercise. But 'word on the street' was that this was actually to ensure Burroughs didn't stray into certain areas and notice OSI activities going on around him.


Not sure that I can fathom why he would be sheilded from OSI activity, unless OSI were planning a sting operation.

The reports and directions from the Air Force that I linked specifically state that those caught with a personal supply were not to be reported as part of the intelligence gathering exercise and is probably only noted on personnel files.

I wonder if it could be that whatever approach Gabriel's crack down on drug smuggling took within USAFE put him in line for the Washington job two years later.


originally posted by: mirageman
I'm not saying that the whole RFI was a UFO cover story so US troops could check that something had been dumped or hidden in woods. But there were ongoing investigations going on at the time.


I'm not saying that either. That personnel were being shipped in and out with some frequency, and without explanation, appears to have created tensions. If nothing breaks that tension, something is bound to snap eventually.

However, if customs checks had increased on the bases meaning that contraband was unable to get through those channels the temptation may have existed to go the Barry Seal route and drop such cargo into the woods. The Halt party found a tree that appeared to have been damaged by something getting caught on it and then subsequently being pulled and twisted free.

Now, having familiarised myself with the legalities, if OSI or anyone else had covered up that contraband had been retreived from the woods, that would have Customs and Excise's as well as Police jurisdiction being violated, if heroin was within that equation, I should think that the base commanders would have wished for aliens to land in the woods or failing that, the ground to swallow them up. Perhaps Halt was set up.







posted on Feb, 21 2019 @ 04:20 PM
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originally posted by: Baablacksheep
a reply to: mirageman

I suggest we ask "Jeeves" or better still Osborn.





So what is your opinion on the conclusion that Bruni felt it was time travel?

We know you found it interesting but that's not an opinion.

Do you believe time travel was involved?


edit on 21/2/2019 by mirageman because: ..



posted on Feb, 21 2019 @ 04:56 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

I am looking at what "others" in the game have said over the years.

It should not matter what I believe and is simply not relevant.

😁



posted on Feb, 21 2019 @ 05:24 PM
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a reply to: Baablacksheep

But it's okay for you to ask others what they believe?

Maybe in future we should all take your stance then? Whatever you say is irrelevant.

So we'll ignore you then from now on.

Please star this post if you agree

edit on 21/2/2019 by mirageman because: Yeh I'm winding you up because you are acting dumb.



posted on Feb, 21 2019 @ 10:55 PM
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originally posted by: Baablacksheep
It should not matter what I believe and is simply not relevant.


I think you're undermining yourself, Baa. I think it DOES matter what you believe - you've been here far longer than I have, and seen all the different comings and goings, arguments and counter-arguments, sane theories and crazy theories, and the whole cast of characters that have wandered in and out of the thread for... well, years and years.

Therefore, you are fully qualified to state your beliefs, if only because you clearly have a profound interest in the case.

For me, the RFI is a feast of bizarre entertainment, more about personalities and bizarre human nature rather than UFOs. Indeed, discovering Truth has been a hopeless cause since the story broke in 1983, or arguably ever since a certain James 'Archer' told Hinge & Bracket (Batty Brenda & Dotty Dot) the strange story of a wee tripod machine that retracted its little mechanical legs and flew away as soon as a 'colleague' tried to climb onto it. ALREADY the confusion had begun...

Gimme what you've got, Baa.


edit on 21-2-2019 by ConfusedBrit because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 02:12 AM
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a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I smiled at your post. 😁


Gimme what you've got, Baa. 


I would love to CB. But I do want to see tomorrow.




posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 02:19 AM
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a reply to: mirageman




posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 05:58 AM
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Out of curiousity, does anyone know how usual it was for USAF personnel to live off base as Penniston did?



posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 06:53 AM
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a reply to: KilgoreTrout

In allied nations with good transport links then its not unusual for NATO troops to live nearby off base. Enlisted men would tend to live in the barracks and housing provided on the base. Penniston was,however, an NCO. Burroughs also lived off base at the time IIRC.



posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 02:28 AM
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Here is an exchange which took place between Gary Heseltine and Gary Osborn.

m.facebook.com...



posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 02:28 AM
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edit on 23-2-2019 by Baablacksheep because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: mirageman

Time travel was definitely not involved*

Jumping back into this thread, I read over past few pages some mentioning of contraband and a possibility that a Barry Seal-type low-and-slow party favor delivery may be the ‘incident’. I’d buy that over mistaking a lighthouse for whatever. At any rate, glad to see that some new logs being tossed into the RFI possibilities fire.

As always, love the conservations y’all have. Keep on keeping on


*My time travel $0.02: the path of least resistance seems to suggest that physical time travel is wholly inefficient and that information is the key to an effective understanding of time travel (not to digress too much but the term itself is problematic for comprehension — our language hasn’t internalized its ‘true nature ‘). We’ll time travel through the universe of information with predictive modeling. Much cheaper to effectively predict the future than travel to it and far much cheaper to recreate the past than travel to it. Anyone up for some matrix algebra or non-linear, closed- form solutions?? Me either, but believe me, time isn’t linear. Our lives are but the maths aren’t.



posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

Thanks for that.

I recall reading that Burroughs "returned" to base for his shift, or words to that effect, but I wasn't sure whether he'd perhaps popped into the village or some other errand or excursion.



Perhaps, because he was living off base he, and anyone else who was living off base, would be considered a greater security risk given the directives that was circulated about two weeks later.


Report any approach of a USAF member that indicates an effort to access the USAF transportation system for the purpose of smuggling illicit drugs. There are indications that organized, civilian criminal elements involved in smuggling operations are resorting to classic hostile intelligence collection techniques in their approaches of civilian aircrew members and maintenance and cargo handling personnel employed by civilian airlines. Specifically, agents of these criminal elements target known “hang-outs” to recruit these civilian airline employees by involving them in compromising situations or by playing on established friendships.”


www.cia.gov...

Combined with Gabriel's apparently unscheduled visit, I think that the possibility exists that there was an attempt to clean-house before those directives went into effect - presuming that Gabriel would have been aware of the contents before it went into more general circulation. While not explaining what went down in the woods, it does add colour to the general state of mind on base even if no-one was engaged in illegal activity, there would have been resentment at extra checks and the such like. And as you say, Bruni made the claim that personnel had been sent home for drug use. So there's that.

Again, obviously, I don't know, but it keeps me out of mischief.




posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 03:01 PM
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originally posted by: BeefNoMeat
Jumping back into this thread, I read over past few pages some mentioning of contraband and a possibility that a Barry Seal-type low-and-slow party favor delivery may be the ‘incident’.


Not the incident but possibly a contributing factor is all I am saying. I think the same can be said for the lighthouse too.

I'm curious about this from Nick Pope's book with Burroughs and Penniston, Encounter in Rendlesham Forest.


“In the meantime, Penniston had returned to his lodgings in the nearby city of Ipswich. But sleep would not come after what he had experienced and he was overtaken – as if by compulsion – to have more evidence. He called a British friend who was an interior decorator and picked up some Plaster of Paris, a jug of water and a small bucket. He then drove back to Woodbridge, put the items in his knapsack and went back to the landing site. He mixed and poured the Plaster of Paris into the three holes, waited for around an hour while the mixture set, then removed the casts, wrapped them in plastic and placed them in the knapsack. As he was leaving he ran into Drury, Verrano, Gulyas and the British police officer. Drury asked Penniston what he was doing and Penniston said that he was just trying to put the events in to their proper context by re-examining the landing site. Drury said they were going to handle the situation and told Penniston to go home, get some sleep and let him worry about the investigation. Penniston departed. He said nothing about the plaster casts. This would be his secret – personal confirmation that what he and Burroughs experienced had been real.”


Any thoughts?




posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 05:56 PM
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Didn't Pope's book also state that Penniston was not the only one to make plaster casts? I only read it in Dec, but can't remember who the other guy was.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

In terms of housing/sleeping arrangements, I'm reminded of an old RFI anecdote, long forgotten, that one of the three airman from Night One, ie Burroughs, spent the next two nights sleeping out in the forest, obsessed with seeking the truth. It originated from Col Halt himself during that early Brenda/Dot phase of the case, during which time Halt also added that one of the first night's airmen, ie Burroughs AGAIN, tried to climb onto the 'craft' - I wrongly thought Archer/Penniston had given the girls this info, but he'd obviously told Halt himself. Although it's not in the memo, of course.

Remember those old nuggets of info? I can well imagine an off-duty John sleeping in the woods, although he denies it himself. Just as he denies "climbing onto" a craft. But he WAS obsessed enough to turn up on Night Three in civvies.

The old adage - that the earliest available information in a case is the most dependable - seems to not apply here. Steve Roberts/JD Ingalls proved that almost instantly!


In fact, the whole RFI mystery mirrors the first night - the closer we get to answers for the lights, the further away they suddenly seem.


edit on 23-2-2019 by ConfusedBrit because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 09:07 PM
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a reply to: KilgoreTrout

My bad, but I read CB’s reply to your’s and now curious to this whole sleeping outside for the next 2 days. Plaster cast and obsessing in the forest reminds me of Richard Dreyfus in Close Encounters...

Something happened to these men and my thoughts w.r.t. Penniston have evolved; I was a blind believer as a teenager — most likely saw a RFI program on the History and/or Discovery Channel back in late 90’s — but since have had the luxury of a better understanding of the physics that govern physical reality and cynicism...Jim has become something of a subculture celebrity and he owes it all to his telling of a story about 3 nights in December of 1980. I think that says it all to me, but I’m open to the actual truth and frequent this thread in hopes someone uncovers it.



posted on Feb, 24 2019 @ 06:10 AM
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a reply to: KilgoreTrout

The plaster cast story. Like everything in this story is never quite what it seems.

I've covered it before. But let's take the account in the "Encounter in R..F.." book.

The book also states:



At some point on the morning of December 26, Drury and Verrano decided to inspect the landing site themselves. Buran ordered Burroughs and Penniston to rendezvous with them. Also ordered to attend was Master Sergeant Ray Gulyas, whose job it would be to take measurements at the landing site, along with photographs. Burroughs and Penniston retraced the route they had taken the night before. Arriving at the point where they'd had to dismount their vehicle and proceed on foot, they saw nobody, so went deeper into the forest, to the landing site.

Burroughs immediately saw the indentations that they'd seen in the dark and called Penniston over. Penniston paced around, measuring the distance between the three marks. Everything was exactly as they recalled it from the night before.

At this point, Drury, Verrano and Gulyas arrived. Burroughs and Penniston briefed them, showed them the landing site and left. Drury, Verrano and Gulyas stayed at the landing site for a while and then went back to brief Major Zickler. Frustratingly, Zickler instructed them to return immediately and rendezvous with one of the British police officers who had been called out the preceding night, who was concerned that he might have missed some evidence in the dark



The story relies on a very tight timeline because as we know the British Police attended and had confirmed their report by around 10:30 in the morning (see below).



In East Anglia the sun doesn't rise until around 8:00 - 8:15am on Boxing Day morning depending on cloud cover. So Penniston and Burroughs couldn't have gone out to the landing site again until after then.

How did Burroughs now see the indentations they'd seen in the dark?

I don't recall him ever saying that elsewhere[it is mentioned in Bruni's book too, Burroughs was not interviewed for that]? But it's there in a book that he co-wrote. Then they return to base and set off home. So that surely couldn't be before 8:30am?

Anyway if you account for the visit to the landing site with the officers and measuring up, then returning to base and driving home. Then visiting his decorator chum, getting changed, mixing the plaster, driving back to the forest, Then you have around an hour drive time and an hour for the plaster to set. That takes up 2 hours without the incidentals of changing, acquiring and mixing plaster etc.....

The book then says


As he [Penniston] was leaving he ran into Drury, Verrano, Gulyas and the British police officer...


So knowing the police report went in at 10:30am this presents a very, very tight timeline if you believe Penniston managed all that without getting seen before the officers arrived with the Suffolk police.....


a reply to: ConfusedBrit



Didn't Pope's book also state that Penniston was not the only one to make plaster casts?


We have another little story concerning that on the same page of the "Encounter..." book;



As Penniston returned to Ipswich, Drury, Verrano, Gulyas and the British police officer proceeded to the landing site. Gulyas took his measurements and shot an entire roll of film, which he later handed to Verrano. Verrano subsequently told him that all the pictures had been fogged.

In a telling foretaste of the suspicion that would soon infect many of the participants of these strange events, Gulyas returned to the site later to take his own photos. While the quality is comparatively poor, a few of the black and white images survived. Bizarrely, Gulyas, like Penniston, took plaster casts of the indentations on the ground again, on his own initiative.


I don't believe the above story. If Gulyas returned to the site after he'd been told the film was fogged (this was 1980 when it had to be developed) then why was there a police officer standing there? Did he ask the police officer to return for a photo opportunity?




edit on 24/2/2019 by mirageman because: clarification



posted on Feb, 24 2019 @ 02:58 PM
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originally posted by: BeefNoMeat
a reply to: KilgoreTrout
Plaster cast and obsessing in the forest reminds me of Richard Dreyfus in Close Encounters...


The 'Special Edition' of which had been released in the UK during late 1980. As Ian Ridpath states:



UFOs and aliens were very much in the air in December 1980. Earlier that month the Special Edition of Close Encounters of the Third Kind was showing at the Gaumont cinema in Ipswich, the nearest major town to Woodbridge where many of the airmen lived, while the ABC cinema in the same town was showing Hangar 18, a science fiction film designed to feed the belief in crashed UFOs and government cover-ups. Before the month was out a real-life UFO encounter was to play itself out in Rendlesham Forest, provoking fresh claims of conspiracy and cover-up.



All we need to do is replace "binary codes" with Spielberg's apparently random series of numbers received from outer space that are revealed to be special geographical coordinates.

Spielberg's film features cinematic dramatisations of genuine UFO reports (even the climax is based on the Holloman AFB 'landing' of 1971, a reference quietly muttered by someone in the crowd near Hynek), but does one line from the last Act seem familiar...?



"HERE THEY COME OUT OF THE NORTHWEST!"


Jiggle the compass a bit, and we have Halt's



"HERE HE COMES FROM THE SOUTH!"





edit on 24-2-2019 by ConfusedBrit because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2019 @ 06:50 PM
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a reply to: ConfusedBrit

wondering if any of them make shapes out of shaving foam or mashed potato...😀



posted on Feb, 24 2019 @ 07:26 PM
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originally posted by: wobbs62
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

wondering if any of them make shapes out of shaving foam or mashed potato...😀


And did most of Penniston's garden end up in his front room?


I remember seeing the movie as a kid and wandering out of the cinema with a thoroughly worked-up imagination and sense of wonder. Of course, we can't say for sure that the film was an influence on the airmen - at least at the time; maybe Penniston's imagination was stoked by OTHER sources in later years.

Jim's September 1994 regression (which introduced binary codes to the RFI) was conducted eleven months after an 'X-Files' episode, "Conduit" (Season 1, Ep 4), in which Mulder and Scully investigate the abduction of a young girl whose brother mentally receives signals from elsewhere, scrawled on multiple pieces of paper as binary code. Screenshot:



The episode also features Mulder undergoing hypnotic regression for the first time.

Just sayin'.


edit on 24-2-2019 by ConfusedBrit because: spellinkinnk



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