Satan the deceiver or not ..

originally posted by: Deetermined
I think we both know that priests who are capable of pedophilia never had the Holy Spirit in the first place. Remember, not everyone who claims to be of God actually are. There are a lot of priests and Roman Catholics who truly believe that you only have to be a member of the Catholic church to be saved. Maybe this is why they became priests in the first place. You'd be surprised how many truly believe that.

Therefore, you and I can agree that faith alone is useless without the Holy Spirit.

originally posted by: DeeterminedAs for Paul, I think you'll come to a better understanding of him if you read about his revelation with Jesus and study his words more. I believe you've been so conditioned by outsiders to believe him a heretic, that your mind is having trouble adjusting. It will come with more prayer and study.

I believe I have study Paul's letters in both Greek and Hebrew to accept his inspiration as nothing more than man's opinion.

Praise to Jesus who already forewarn us of coming imposters and false prophets.

If there's a coming "Comforter", He won't be dwelling in Paul's body 2000 years ago to be that ineffective.

May our Father in Heaven bless you.

a reply to: EasternShadow

It is true. Faith alone without the Holy Spirit means nothing. Or maybe I should use the term "belief" alone means nothing, for even Satan and his angels believe in God and know who he is, but they will be condemned. Either way, the Holy Spirit is a requirement for salvation.

Do you mind if I ask you what you may have been reading or practicing before you found the Holy Spirit? Is there something lingering that's making it difficult for you to accept what Paul says? Maybe it's just Paul's use of language that you don't like?

a reply to: EasternShadow

After doing a little more study on Galatians 4:14, I have every reason to believe that Paul used such strong language due to these other verses spoken of by Jesus...

Let's compare:

Galatians 4:14

14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Matthew 10:40

40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

John 13:20

20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

John 20:21

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: EasternShadow

After doing a little more study on Galatians 4:14, I have every reason to believe that Paul used such strong language due to these other verses spoken of by Jesus...

Let's compare:

Galatians 4:14

14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Matthew 10:40

40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

John 13:20

20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

John 20:21

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Sorry for long delay. I have to make sure, my mind is not preoccupied by other things, as your query require delicate answer.

As you probably have realize from such comparison, Paul is trying to imitate Jesus' word. Problem with Paul's strong wording, is Jesus' audience is his own disciple Jews, who always follow Jesus, well educated with Hebrew's oral laws and tradition and have consciousnesses of what is considered heretical. Jesus' disciples understand Jesus' word.

On the other hand, Paul's audience is gentile Church at Corinth, who are still bound by their pagan custom and not with Paul. Paul is alone in prison when he is writing Epistles of Corinthians. And this newly converted pagan are not aware of Judaistic views on Heretical matters. Unfortunately for them, Paul has no opportunity to explain because he is executed in prison.

Unfortunately for Jews too, war break out in 66 CE and by 70 CE, Jerusalem is left with few Jews to testify for Jesus's teaching. We can assume that all apostles and majority of their followers are most likely died by 70 CE. Those who are still alive, are more likely Hellenic Jews who're not in their best interest to preserve Judaizer's belief, such as Jesus' teaching. There may be handful casted Jews, for example the ebionites who are living in isolated caves, but it's arguable they have any influence at all.

There is historical record ( I forget the source ) stated one clergy was murdered by his own fellowships in their own Church due to differences in theology doctrine. It proves chaos and lawless thrive in those time.

Sometime, it is important for us to look at Historical record, not written in the bible to understand the situation.

For that matter, I have every reasons to believe that, a lot of confusion and misinterpreting happened to the gentile after Paul died. Therefore, it is unwise and improper for Paul to use such strong words and/or write the way he did, especially to 21th century theology scholars all around the world. I guess it's fate, Paul could have not possibly anticipate it.

Then again, this where Paul's word is different than Jesus and the words of Our Father in heaven. For the word of God is eternal, preserved not by men's pen, but by holy spirit in each one of us.

May our Father in heaven bless you.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Regardless of how we feel about Paul's writing skills, the bottom line is that he didn't teach anything different from what Jesus taught or told us about himself. That's how his writings made their way into the collected scripture called the Bible in the first place.

God bless you.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: EasternShadow

Regardless of how we feel about Paul's writing skills, the bottom line is that he didn't teach anything different from what Jesus taught or told us about himself.

On contrary, he did have several issues contradicted Jesus' sayings. I have provided links to support this on previous reply. Just to remind you, here is few examples:

1. On Dying:

Paul says:
I Corinthians 15
31: I protest, brethren, by my pride in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!

Jesus says:
John 11
26: and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.


2. On the basis of judgment:

Paul says:
Rom.2
[12] All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

Jesus says:
John.12
[48] He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.


3.On the commandments and eternal life:

Paul says:
Rom.7
[9] I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died;
[10] the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me.

Jesus says:
Matt.19
[17] And he said to him, Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.

originally posted by: Deetermined
That's how his writings made their way into the collected scripture called the Bible in the first place.

God bless you.

The collected scripture are called the Bible by men. They are not necessary the words of God. The reason why there are some very controversial scriptures make it into the Bible is for everyone to review and find the truth ourselves. Which isn't a bad thing, as this prove that "all is revealed, nothing to hide" no matter the flaws.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Really? You think your links understand scripture better than the group who helped to put the Bible together?

I'll go back and pull specific instances, but all your links have done is twist scripture and take the meaning out of context.

Don't forget, not everyone has the Holy Spirit in order to decipher scripture. As we know, Satan and his minions have the ability to twist people's minds and confuse them on the true meaning of what's written.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: EasternShadow

Really? You think your links understand scripture better than the group who helped to put the Bible together?

I'll go back and pull specific instances, but all your links have done is twist scripture and take the meaning out of context.

Don't forget, not everyone has the Holy Spirit in order to decipher scripture. As we know, Satan and his minions have the ability to twist people's minds and confuse them on the true meaning of what's written.

You haven't provide any explanation why you disagree with the contradictions provided in all the links. What you did was trying to refute the verses I posted.

If they are twisted words of those who don't understand Paul, then do tell why contradictions exist, between Jesus sayings and Paul's sayings? Start with I Corinthians 15:31 vs John 11:26.

originally posted by: EasternShadow

On contrary, he did have several issues contradicted Jesus' sayings. I have provided links to support this on previous reply. Just to remind you, here is few examples:

1. On Dying:

Paul says:
I Corinthians 15
31: I protest, brethren, by my pride in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!

Jesus says:
John 11
26: and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.

Paul says his pride dies everyday and you want to compare it against eternal life?

Paul teaches the same as Christ in the following verses that you mention:

1 Corinthians 15:21-22

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

2. On the basis of judgment:

Paul says:
Rom.2
[12] All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

Jesus says:
John.12
[48] He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.

What's to compare here? Jesus himself said that the law would not pass away until we're all in heaven. I've already pointed out the book of works to you. What do you think it's for? Jesus is also the God of the Old Testament, so you also have to take into account the words that He spoke there.

3.On the commandments and eternal life:

Paul says:
Rom.7
[9] I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died;
[10] the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me.

Jesus says:
Matt.19
[17] And he said to him, Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.

Once again, it's all about context. You can't take a single verse and understand it's meaning without reading the context in which it was written. Here is the rest...

Romans 7:9-12

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

I think you can see how I would be wasting my time by addressing the rest. Most of them are just ridiculous by using different words to convey the same meaning.

a reply to: EasternShadow

This is how petty one of those links are. They say that Jesus preached an "earthly" Kingdom of God and Paul preached a "heavenly" Kingdom of God. For anyone who knows the Bible, there are both. You have the Kingdom of God that will reside on earth during the Millennial period and you have the Kingdom of God which is in heaven and will be eternal. The millennial kingdom only lasts 1,000 years.

The bottom line, your websites and links bashing Paul don't know or understand their Bibles.

originally posted by: Deetermined
Paul says his pride dies everyday and you want to compare it against eternal life?

Then he shouldn't say "I have in Chris Jesus our Lord", because John 11:26, " whoever lives and believes in me shall never die."
One who die everyday is the one who don't believe in Jesus. Ask yourself, why if One believe in Jesus, then one have to die for pride? Jesus doesn't has any Issue with Pride. If Jesus doesnt pride himself, then are we not to follow the same? Why is Paul having difficulty with pride to die everyday? Do Paul believe in Jesus?

originally posted by: Deetermined
What's to compare here? Jesus himself said that the law would not pass away until we're all in heaven. I've already pointed out the book of works to you. What do you think it's for? Jesus is also the God of the Old Testament, so you also have to take into account the words that He spoke there.

That is not the issue. Paul say, all who has sinned. Jesus say all who reject him. All who has sinned is not the same as all who reject Jesus.

originally posted by: Deetermined
Once again, it's all about context. You can't take a single verse and understand it's meaning without reading the context in which it was written.

The context is keeping the command. Paul claimed he die following the commandments. Yet Jesus said keep the commandments to enter life.

originally posted by: Deetermined
I think you can see how I would be wasting my time by addressing the rest. Most of them are just ridiculous by using different words to convey the same meaning.

Nope. I think you are just clouded by your own prejudice. Sorry to tell you, but that is not how it works. Perhaps you should take a break awhile? Come back later when you are ready.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: EasternShadow

This is how petty one of those links are. They say that Jesus preached an "earthly" Kingdom of God and Paul preached a "heavenly" Kingdom of God. For anyone who knows the Bible, there are both. You have the Kingdom of God that will reside on earth during the Millennial period and you have the Kingdom of God which is in heaven and will be eternal. The millennial kingdom only lasts 1,000 years.

The bottom line, your websites and links bashing Paul don't know or understand their Bibles.

The kingdom of God doesn't has any issue with "pride" for we know not to pride ourselves, something Paul lack of understanding. Therefore, while we alive knowing not to pride ourselves, Paul die everyday without Jesus in Him.

The kingdom of God never be troubled by the issue of "enslaving by sin", for we know not to commit sin, something Paul should learn from us.

The Kingdom of God knows in order to free oneselves from sin, one has to keep the commandment of Jesus. However, Paul unwillingly abide the commandment of God, therefore, Paul feel himself die.

The kingdom of God is about living with the Holiness of God, following Jesus' words. But Paul was dying in prison of his own sinning.

Why do you have to die? Said the LORD. For I take no pleasure in anyone's death.

a reply to: EasternShadow

The kingdom of God is about living with the Holiness of God, following Jesus' words. But Paul was dying in prison of his own sinning.

You need to do some serious research on Paul. Paul was risking his life everyday trying to preach the gospel and that's what got him thrown into prison. If you read Matthew 24:9, you'd know that Jesus told his disciples that they would be killed for his name's sake. John spent time in prison for doing the same.

You all realise all versions of the bible have legal copyrights on them. What does that tell you about who wrote them.

originally posted by: Deetermined
You need to do some serious research on Paul. Paul was risking his life everyday trying to preach the gospel and that's what got him thrown into prison. If you read Matthew 24:9, you'd know that Jesus told his disciples that they would be killed for his name's sake. John spent time in prison for doing the same.

I know how Paul died. He did died martyrdom. I know Paul believe everything he claimed, for that he was innocent in his own right.

Till his death, Paul refuse to renounce his faith. He was tortured behind the cell. He was lashed and spat and kicked by the Roman, yet he refuse to submit.

There is no doubt, that Paul indeed have met Jesus on the road to Damascus.

The thing is, there are more sinisters going on behind the writings of Epistles. But you are not ready yet. I really think you should study a bit into the past. Find out what others like Clement, Titus etc has to say.

Not everything is and was revealed by the Bible. But for now, I can only shared with you that I'm not bashing the real Paul.

In case you haven't heard, and in case you haven't noticed by now... Jesus is a common household name and is beyond the mode(s) of preachery.
Thus... Preaching Christendom is unethical and totally unnecessary. Also... Exoterics and esoterics thrive on the "silence is golden" movement. Get with it.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Not everything is and was revealed by the Bible. But for now, I can only shared with you that I'm not bashing the real Paul.

I'm hoping that you've already read for yourself in this thread some of the corrupt deceitfulness that can truly happen when you try to combine the Bible with other religions or practices. You're being warned.

The Bible is SATANIC!!!!!

a reply to: Pinocchio

In case you haven't heard, and in case you haven't noticed by now... Jesus is a common household name and is beyond the mode(s) of preachery.

Matthew 24:23-26

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Pinocchio, I think we've already established that you don't even know who Satan is in order not to be deceived by him. You're ripe for the taking.

a reply to: Deetermined

Pinocchio, I think we've already established that you don't even know who Satan is in order not to be deceived by him. You're ripe for the taking.

Pincocchios walking the blank lol