Rising conservative star Jordan Peterson in debate: "Athiesm leads to murder"

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: snowspirit

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Yes, a thread where all the low IQ ATS posters can come bash religion and an argument made by someone 10x smarter than them. Hooray!

It's not a difficult concept to grasp. If you don't believe in God/higher power, then your morals are completely subjective and you have as a meaningless singular soul have no authority to tell another person your subjective morals are better than theirs. Therefore they are free to act on their own subjective morals as they wish.

Ouch!!!
A meaningless singular soul?! Wow.
I was raised an atheist by my father, and yes, I have had doubts about his soul, but that was just because he was an ass at times.
I didn't start believing in something else until strange experiences that couldn't be explained, started happening when I was 13. Because I was taught that way until then.
So until I was 13, my soul was meaningless?!?



No soul is meaningless, and looking at both religious and non religious people, no one has a monopoly on morals

What is a soul? And please explain, in detail, how you know? Because, i was under the impression that it has never been seen or tested. Only claimed to exist. But since you know so much about them, maybe you could show us all your work?

This thread has turned into nothing but bitchiness. I have no clue what a soul is, except that I think we have one, whatever it is, if we have them, animals also have them. If we have one, it's not meaningless (and no, I don't know why)

I've gone from being raised atheist to agnostic, because I don't know, and I don't think anyone knows until they're dead.

I've had some strangeness throughout my life, which has turned me into doubting absolute nothingness.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

LOL! Oh, okay! God gave Christians an imperfect set of morals. It all makes sense now!

Actually what He gave us was the perfect example of morality . Not in a book but in the person of Jesus Christ . Not sure how much sense that makes for you because I am not sure how much or how little you know about the subject .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

the perfect example of morals?
so which one would that be?
a) axiological ethics-
the branch of ethics dealing primarily with the relative goodness or value of the motives and end of any action.
b) deontological ethics-
the branch of ethics dealing with right action and the nature of duty, without regard to the goodness or value of motives or the desirability of the ends of any act.

a reply to: username74

the perfect example of morals? so which one would that be? a) axiological ethics- the branch of ethics dealing primarily with the relative goodness or value of the motives and end of any action. b) deontological ethics- the branch of ethics dealing with right action and the nature of duty, without regard to the goodness or value of motives or the desirability of the ends of any act.

I am confident that Jesus was yes . As to my ability to articulate it in a technical way using modern academic terms well you will have to find a peer to chew that fat with . Sounds like a field of study a Christian might be interested in . Let me know how you make out as a good read into that subject could probably help me as well .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

i am not trying to troll you and if it makes you more comfortable i have no problem with other peoples religion as individuals. theres also spirituality to consider. ( the quality or state of being spiritual) which can happen without religious belief.
but the definition of words are important because they represent a matching vocabulary. so we can communicate ideas.
and i have just read 16 pages of people throwing # at each other....because noone seems to be able to understand each others comments because its all .....emotion. knee jerk reactions to cognitive dissonance.
16 pages, not once does anyone define morals and ethics while arguing about them.
not once does someone discuss why people think what they think, in the frame of human psychology the science of thinking.
jordan peterson is a clinical psychologist.
Education Political science (B.A., 1982)
Psychology (B.A., 1984)
Clinical psychology (Ph.D., 1991)
Alma mater
University of Alberta
McGill University
Spouse(s) Tammy Roberts (m. 1989)
Children 2
Scientific career
Fields Psychology
Institutions
McGill University (1985–1993)
Harvard University (1993–1998)
University of Toronto (1998–present)[1]
Thesis Potential psychological markers for the predisposition to alcoholism (1991)
Doctoral advisor Robert O. Pihl
Influences Jung, Freud, Piaget
Jordan Bernt Peterson (born June 12, 1962) is a Canadian clinical psychologist and a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto. His main areas of study are in abnormal, social, and personality psychology,[1] with a particular interest in the psychology of religious and ideological belief,[2] and the assessment and improvement of personality and performance.
not a right wing shill!

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Actually what He gave us was the perfect example of morality. Not in a book but in the person of Jesus Christ

Actually, I don't think Jesus of Nazareth makes a good role model for children or adults. I find Christian dogma to be most immoral, starting with relying on an innocent human's sacrificial blood for one's own redemption and ending with the hope of destruction of earth as we know it.

a reply to: username74

and this bit here should tell you why he said what he said.

His main areas of study are in abnormal, social, and personality psychology,[1] with a particular interest in the psychology of religious and ideological belief,[2] and the assessment and improvement of personality and performance.

a reply to: username74

As impressive as he is ,he does have that finger thing going on lol just saying The guy is a monster and his peers know it . He is a very good teacher as he breaks complex ideas down into manageable bites . at least for me he does . Back a few years ago I would have been way out in the weeds listening to him and his peers discussing this kind of stuff . I attribute that to my own lazyness or lack of desire to know . But that subject matter is deep dry boring to learn . Not so much the good stuff but the reams of pages of garbage you have to wade through to understand what its garbage . I am 65 and just wont do that kind of reading . I will plop myself down in front of a YT clip and dig in .

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Actually, I don't think Jesus of Nazareth makes a good role model for children or adults. I find Christian dogma to be most immoral, starting with relying on an innocent human's sacrificial blood for one's own redemption and ending with the hope of destruction of earth as we know it.

Well feel free to polp your child down in front a TV or a computer game or in a school class or at what ever other societal function you choose . Its not like there are no other options the Jesus . As far as the cross goes that is a very technical subject that requires a almost university degree to start to un pack . Peterson is probably a good start but I have some points of disagreement with some of his conclusions .

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: the2ofusr1

Actually what He gave us was the perfect example of morality. Not in a book but in the person of Jesus Christ

Actually, I don't think Jesus of Nazareth makes a good role model for children or adults. I find Christian dogma to be most immoral, starting with relying on an innocent human's sacrificial blood for one's own redemption and ending with the hope of destruction of earth as we know it.

So what do you base your moral principles on, utilitarianism
Isn't that what all atheists believe

Standard argument deflection

Turn the discussion away from the issue so we can't expose the problem

a reply to: the2ofusr1

lol, hes not a monster, just a guy who understands how people think and how he thinks.
it takes a little of the sparkle out of social interactions.
if you can find a book called the "battle for your mind" i highly recommend it.
its less than 20 pages, desolation books maybe...
understand the implications of our mental structure and this thread will make much more sense.
try "silent weapons for silent wars" too.
like they used to say...theres nothing to frighten ya like yourself

a reply to: Raggedyman

i imagine anyone who walks around with preset morals is rare.
usually society has predecided your likely range of options for response to a given stimulus or upset.
however to assume that your ethical framework can deal with things outside its purview is shortsighted because then things that "cant happen", happen and thats when things get a little squirley in the pre frontal cortex.
so who is in charge of your action/response.
you or god?

a reply to: Raggedyman

"So what do you base your moral principles on, utilitarianism
Isn't that what all atheists believe

Standard argument deflection

Turn the discussion away from the issue so we can't expose the problem"

i think alot of atheists are actually agnostic.
utilitarianism is a little into the humanist/liberal/communist stereotype so i can see where thats going and for what its worth, i get it.
but i woud say the more likely position is stoicism. its more conservative and requires integrity and a duty to your society,
its where i usually would identify. of course hedonism is always popular but its a young mans game that.
en.wikipedia.org...



and i ll add this guy cause his name sounds like christ
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Way off topic, but isn't the "dragon" myth linked to the conspiracy of interdimensional reptillians? The theory to why dragons and reptiles are depicted and mentioned throughout history.

a reply to: blueman12

more likely cosmic events, seen from the past. plasma, meteorites, electrical events like that time 70 000 years ago when a binary star wandered through our system or the comet impact ending the dryas less than 17000 years ago. no wonder we are such a basket case of a species.
traumatised.

a reply to: blueman12

Way off topic, but isn't the "dragon" myth linked to the conspiracy of interdimensional reptillians? The theory to why dragons and reptiles are depicted and mentioned throughout history.
[/quote I think username is probably more correct then he is wrong . The Dragon represents chaos while the gods slay the bad guy and restore order and keep the beast at bay . That is probably where the priesthood racket gets its genesis . anything for a buck eh .

edit on 2-7-2018 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)

a reply to: Sookiechacha

So you wouldn't approve if your son or daughter become a first responder? Specifically something like a fireman who often must risk his or her own life or limb for others?

What if your son or daughter put his or her life on the line for some random stranger, just because? What if he or she died saving that person's life?

I'm sure you'd call him or her a stupid idiot as part of the eulogy then, right?

a reply to: ketsuko

Ouch ...pointed and sharp .

a reply to: snowspirit

Why do you think you have one if you don’t even know what it is? What reason do you have to believe that you have one? If you believe it for no good reason, again, why?

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Sookiechacha

LOL! Oh, okay! God gave Christians an imperfect set of morals. It all makes sense now!

Actually what He gave us was the perfect example of morality . Not in a book but in the person of Jesus Christ . Not sure how much sense that makes for you because I am not sure how much or how little you know about the subject .

Do you know Jesus personally? Because I was under the impression that the only information we had about him came from a book? Why do you make such ignorant statements?