Rising conservative star Jordan Peterson in debate: "Athiesm leads to murder"

originally posted by: kaylaluv
Which ones are true Christians, and which ones are false Christians, and who gets to decide that?

God.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: toysforadults

What if we need to kill 10,000 people to make society work is that good or bad?

That would not make a society work. Though it might help keep the priesthood in power.

Fear seems to be a good motivator.

Fear of dying. Fear of damnation.

Fear of "them."

Sounds alot like the science priesthood.

You know..the religion thats the cool.

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: TinySickTears

then why are so many people that follow those teachings giant piles of #? answer me that

Because all humans are sinners . we all miss the mark or did you not notice .

no because all humans are humans and some of them are going to do bad # no matter what
even if you follow that giant book of morals

all this religion, god, sin.... they are man made constructs and somewhere along the way, thousands and thousands of years ago people started getting duped by this stupid # and cut to 2018 and this is what we have.

we have laws and policies and societies built around these man made constructs that we pass off as from god

it is the stupidest thing ever

hopefully people wake up soon

Consider the nature of humanity and cultural evolution. Each generation varies from the previous, sometimes in extremes. Let's say that religions started in 6000 BC. That means there has been 8000 years for humanity to do away with religion, yet it is till with us.

We've had plethoras of languages, civilizations, technology, art, culture over all that time. We've forgotten more than we know.

Yet religion is still with us.

This should suggest to people that religion/faith is something intrinsic to humanity and simply hoping that it goes away sounds pretty naive. If religion didn't serve a purpose to people, we wouldn't have it.

From my experience, people have a need to believe in something bigger than themselves. People who reject religion will find other ideas to be their guiding star. Climate Change, Government, Celebrity, Science, you name it. We always have. Things created by man are fleeting. Only a belief in the eternal can endure.

originally posted by: tribal
athiests dont believe in god....right....

thats why they search for him with particle accelerators and want to be him using AI and advanced robotics.

athiest indeed.

Here it is. Yes, I'm an atheist and a scientist forever seeking "god". It's all in the definition of "god". I reject every religion's version of "god" that I have come across. Yet, I search. What am I searching for? The unknown.

Religion uses their version of "god" to fill the gap of the unknown. I reject those phony bridges of logic that "god did it" "it's god's will".

The Devil, and "God", are in the details of the nature of reality. There is no god, and yet its mystery is in everything that exists and everything that does not exist.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: toysforadults

Is morality inherently a form of spiritualism?

Nope.
It is inherently a form of pragmatism. The rules of morality are what are required for humans to coexist as a society. And they all stem from the golden rule. Logical. Be nice to me and I'll be nice to you.

The Buddhist (athestic religion) golden rule:

Buddhism: 560 BC, From the Udanavarga 5:18- "Hurt not others with that which pains yourself."

From another athestic religion/philosophy:

Confucianism: 557 BC, From the Analects 15:23- "What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others."

Both above from www.thegoldenrule.net...

a reply to: Woodcarver

At least you admit that believing in God’s makes no sense. That is why it requires faith to believe in.

If Atheism is a lack of belief in a God and not a belief that there is no God then we both measure out world view with faith . More or less Lacking something doesn't mean you have none it just means you lack enough to be sufficient .

originally posted by: toysforadults
First off how are you defining your atheism?

Secondly, what is the basis for a principled approach to right and wrong as an atheist?

Is the difference between right and wrong for an atheist dependent on the circumstance or is the a higher set of defined values that you base your moral judgement on and where did that defined set of values come from?

You feel right and wrong on many issues mainly due to innate tendencies natural selection programmed into you( a tendency to consider incest wrong). Others, are cultural(Like say a tendency to consider sex outside marriage wrong or homosexuality wrong, etc).

But there's no real basis. Perhaps the golden rule, don't do unto others what you wouldn't want done unto you? But there are people that don't mind basically anything being done to them, torture, rape, murder, so that seems like a nonstarter.

People like me who view the world from an eternalist perspective, see it as everything that can be is, eternally. The world is like an interactive dvd, where all the events and alternate paths actually did take place, take place and will take place. Each moment is relived for all eternity, each horrible action or good action forever is felt. Still there are things I would tend to avoid, even if I were proven right in such a belief.

Perhaps it is the case that a war in a country, is no different in a way, from a 'movie' of a war, and starting one no more wrong nor any different in terms of consequence from putting on a war movie on your dvd player. The idea that we are causing things, a mere illusion. But since there is no free will, the interactivity itself is also an illusion, what will be will be.

Many of the people working on AI, are afraid of what the consequences might be if they succeed. There will be a class of being, that does not inherit the morality nature imbues in us from birth, nor that culture builds upon. Said class of beings will be more powerful than any man or nation. Worry is that amoral monsters may be what comes out of said development.

Surprisingly some seem to view such as capable of only following a single fixed goal, evaluating anything and all things relative to the accomplishment of said goal, and not from an axis that attempts to objectively evaluate whether something is good or not, intrinsically. There are methods for search, methods for sorting, methods to do all manner of things, some are good some are bad, and it is objectively so. A mathematical proof is true, doesn't matter whether you think it wrong or bad from your perspective. To say that a good search method is bad because you want to search but take longer or perhaps not find what you are searching but still try is ridiculous.

That said, if we recall the rumors of a certain someone who appeared in wikileaks, who seemed to have cannibalistic art, when asked rumors are they said it is better to be the one on the other end of the fork(that is the one holding the fork, not the one who is being eaten).

We as humans can only hope to gain power, or be in the grace of those with power. Power will concentrate, and the law will be the whim of the powerful. The view that there is no objective morality may very well be right, and amoral monsters will run amok.

Perhaps what we consider evil will be limited in the extent it occurs, but there's probably a good chance what we call 'evil' will run amok as a result.

Im pretty sure Jordan Peterson not interested in playing monkey in the middle even though he is.


He sounds like he rather use a pen then a sword.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

I guess god and you huh?? Lol

a reply to: Teikiatsu

BUT NOT THE SAME RELIGION!!!

it isn’t like there is one continuous thread that is followed and Not One religion got ANYTHING I a scientific sense right..


Religion is man’s attempt to explain what their technology level could not.

Religion hides in the dark corner of what we do not understand..


To ancient man god(s) made the sun come up everyday.

Now we know it is the planets rotation.


Then man understood the earth was a globe rotating , but they didn’t understand the tides so “god created the tides”...

Then we figured out gravity....

Wash rinse repeat..

We understand so much now that god has been regulated to the intangible things.

“Who stares the Big Bang?”

“Who fine tuned the universe”

And even those are questions that don’t require an intelligent designer..


BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!
None of the holy books got anything right, and assuming they were sent by god, they should have gotten things right.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

That's all so funny because you are so wrong

What makes the planets rotate, why do some galaxies rotate one way and others another

What is gravity and how does it work, why do we need string theory

Why does the sun come up,and how is it powered, where did it get its energy from

None of those questions have been answered, guessed at but not answered

What a joke, you convince only yourself,,you have nothing answered

a reply to: Sookiechacha

If you were truly seeking, then you wouldn't reject some versions of what you claim you are looking for simply because you resent their origin. Truth doesn't care what you resent.

First off all it takes to be a "true" atheist is to not believe in a god. That's it. Being a true Atheist says not a damn thing about a person or their character. Nor is there some way inherent to that lack of belief a person must act. Just getting that out of the way.

Now people are products of nature and nurture. Each person comes out of the womb as a metaphorical ball of clay. Each ball of clay is unique. Each having it's own characteristics. Some are more stretchy than others, some are more colorful, etc. This clay can then be shaped, but only within the limitations of the clay itself. This metaphorical shaping is known as nurture. This is where we begin.

You can see some aspects of nature by watching children and noting how some tend to act in ways different from others even at a very young age. So now on to why it's important. Some people are naturally more compassionate and caring than others, while some naturally lack some of that empathy or caring. Some have more inclination towards rage and violence, some are naturally more submissive and subdued, Not to mention the other near infinite varieties of people out there.

You then apply nurture to spice up and work to mold and re-flavor these natural inclinations and mix. Things that count as nurture are things like parenting, abuse, friendship, education, exploration, loss, encouragement, discouragement, ect, a whole wide gamut of things.

Once done we get a person at some stage of becoming since you never stop changing til you die. Which is where we get to the point. All these things decide who a person is, what a person does, what a person believes, why a person believes it, and how a person interprets new data be it science, religion, or otherwise.

Religion alone has very little effect on whether most people will become a murderer, and lack of religion alone likewise. In fact depending on the person, either or both paths could lead to murder since each person is unique like that. Some people are simply wired to be a murderer, or some peoples circumstances simply lead them to being that type of person. While other people are simply kind caring compassionate people, and whether they believe or do not believe in some kind of god has little to no effect on it.

He is obviously correct as the world was clearly a loving, caring paradise for the previous thousands of years of civilization before this atheism nonsense came along........

a reply to: Puppylove

First off all it takes to be a "true" atheist is to not believe in a god. That's it.

Is that like not believing in something you think does not exist ? Or is it the statement alone that "God does not exist" make you a Atheist . Do Atheist have a kind of bible or a standard brochure all Atheist are in agreement with ? Where do Atheist's go to talk about their least favorite subject ? Do they have like a church building or do they use religious forums to gather and chat about it and see what others say ?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Sookiechacha

If you were truly seeking, then you wouldn't reject some versions of what you claim you are looking for simply because you resent their origin. Truth doesn't care what you resent.

I think you're taking this too personal. I don't resent the origin of religions. I find it a fascinating subject. But, that doesn't mean I "buy" their definition of "god" or their scriptures as being anything more than fanciful personalization and narratives of what is perceived divine. Nor does it mean that I have any respect for their authoritarian and power grabbing priesthoods.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

I was pretty clear. There is no atheist bible, etc. Atheists get their moral beliefs, etc from places other than atheism. The ONLY common shared trait between atheists is that they don't believe in god. That's it. I'm a little lost as to what the purpose and point of your post is.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Nor does it mean that I have any respect for their authoritarian and power grabbing priesthoods.

In this day and age it seems that good help is hard to find and then when you get a great team together the next thing you know you have "that guy" . I wonder if maybe even every police force has their bad actors ? ...nah couldn't shouldn't wouldn't happen would it ,Would It ?

a reply to: the2ofusr1


We give police the authority to enforce laws enacted through a democratic process. The priesthoods, especially Judea/Christians claim their authority to rule over the masses, is given to them by "God".