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Rising conservative star Jordan Peterson in debate: "Athiesm leads to murder"

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posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 11:52 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Annee

So why were you not responsible when you called yourself a believer
As a believer I am
Solely responsible for my own thoughts and actions
My value to humanity and societies is solely on me

What other way is it?
I don't see the difference

I agree, most atheists are about that, only a fring few are extreme

What I don't get is when you called yourself a Christian, what did you think different and why?

As a Christian I am grateful for my opportunity and the hope of the future, it encourages me to live better than I would if I wasn't one. I am prepared to suffer moe based on love


A follower is a follower.

I was assimilated into a God belief by society. It wasn't a choice. However, it became a choice as I became independent.

The Golden Rule of logic does not require an instructor. It stands by itself.




posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 12:05 AM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: FyreByrd

Thanks for a response but I was in proper push back . You see most Atheist seem to be confused about what the word means . I was trying to show them that just as Christians can disagree about stuff in the bible ,so too do Atheist's . But unlike having a go to book they seem to want to mish mash stuff without putting it into a one statement of faith for us to examine . They also like to collect differences across a large body of Christianity and find any small deviation and then blame God / god . or any Christian or even none Christian . Agnostics are not spared by them either . They say they have no soul and I believe them sadly . Like Esau they seem to have sold it .


I don't understand what "proper push back" is.

And you seem to want an Atheist Manifesto to argue against. Ain't gonna happen, we all believe different things, in different ways and most won't waste their time on such things.

You keep saying Atheists this and Atheists that. Well who are you talking about specifically? We don't have a formal hierarchy. Each Atheist is autonomous.

We are all Agnostics - you can never prove the existence of your God rationally only subjectively.

Some atheists may criticize religion, but they also criticize all forms of organizations as do the religious.

Why do you need to justify your beliefs? Are they yours or some combination of conditioning and bullying?

Someone has said, help here please, "without doubt there can be no faith".

I have faith in my beliefs because I constantly doubt them and have to evolve my understanding and insight.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 12:15 AM
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a reply to: Annee

I asked a question, that didn't answer my question

If you don't want to or cant, just say it's not my buisness
Just trying to understand what happened, why as a Christian you didn't think you were responsible for your actions



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 12:18 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman




I asked a question, that didn't answer my question

Oh, the irony.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 12:24 AM
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a reply to: Phage

I made it very clear I don't have an answer, I didn't disguise the fact I can't answer the question

Sometimes we have to stop, think and comprehend

Hull meet reef



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 12:24 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Annee

I asked a question, that didn't answer my question

If you don't want to or cant, just say it's not my buisness
Just trying to understand what happened, why as a Christian you didn't think you were responsible for your actions


I'm not responsible for you not understanding my answer.

There's: Sheep

And then there is: Independent Thinker.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 12:28 AM
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a reply to: Annee

Interesting, I am a Christian and independent thinker
You were a Christian and a sheep?

I just don't get why you didn't have your own thought and valued humanity and society when that's exactly what Christianity teaches

Jesus teaches us to love ourselves, love each other and serve in society to improve everyone's life
I just don't get your position



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 12:32 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Annee

Interesting, I am a Christian and independent thinker


So, you choose to believe.

But, no -- you are a follower.

Logic and Dogma don't play in the same park.

edit on 3-7-2018 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 12:43 AM
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a reply to: Annee

Well as a believer I serve society, value it, humanity as well.
Have my own thoughts, as you can see, I butt heads with many fellow believers constantly on this site
I accept gay marriage, don't do the 10 commandments, don't believe the bible is perfect and it continues on theologically as well not that you may understand

But whatever



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 12:57 AM
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a reply to: FyreByrd




You keep saying Atheists this and Atheists that. Well who are you talking about specifically? We don't have a formal hierarchy. Each Atheist is autonomous. We are all Agnostics - you can never prove the existence of your God rationally only subjectively.
On one hand you make the claim "we are all Agnostic" . On the other hand you say in the second person speaking for a Atheist "this or that" that you don't have a formal hierarchy . Then you say that each Atheist is autonomous . Then you tell me I cant prove the existence of my God but that I can .
Oh btw It was God that proved His existence to me . That is why I am so convinced that He is real . Not because I proved that He was . I have never set out to prove that he was to anyone because I know that no one can . Its a one lane highway with a deep ditch on both sides . drive safely . and if you do need a tow out of the weeds then call my brother Jesus . He is open 24/7



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 01:15 AM
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a reply to: Annee




an atheist is an individual. Each individual can believe whatever they want (except belief in a god/deity). That is called the Atheist's Philosophy (personal belief).
So they are allowed to lie to each other . Steal from each other . Actually sounds like they could break any and all conceivable moral codes and laws and their Atheistic Philosophy is maintained . But if they contemplate or decide to believe in a god/deity then they are out of the club . Wow pretty tight ship you run there . must be wonderful .



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 01:19 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1




So they are allowed to lie to each other . Steal from each other .

No.

Are believers allowed to do so? Because they seem to do so.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 01:21 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Oh please the religious are just as moral as atheists.
Religion did not invent morals btw.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 01:30 AM
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a reply to: Phage




Are believers allowed to do so? Because they seem to do so.
No one is getting out of this place scott free Page . no one



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 01:32 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Five to one, baby.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 01:33 AM
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a reply to: testingtesting




Religion did not invent morals btw.
That is true . They can only identify them and put a value to them .



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 01:38 AM
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a reply to: Phage




Five to one, baby.
OT but what kind of odds do you give your property of surviving the sea level rise before you make your grand exit ?



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 01:43 AM
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a reply to: Phage




Are believers allowed to do so? Because they seem to do so.
I think there is a option called the excommunication from the group . Probably find it in Corinthians . They seemed to have the most issues dealt with .



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 01:45 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1




OT but what kind of odds do you give your property of surviving the sea level rise before you make your grand exit ?
How much of my property and what does that have to do with God?


I think there is a option called the excommunication from the group . Probably find it in Corinthians .
Is that like prison, for committing a crime? Is being evicted from the Church fatal?

edit on 7/3/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 01:50 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Morals can have value without religion. In fact religion adds no inherent value to morals. A person choosing not to kill because they choose to believe in God and that the bible tells them not to, has no inherent value over someone who chooses not to kill because they feel it's wrong and believe a society of murderers is not one they'd like to live in.

In both cases the person chose not to murder. A person who believes in the bible has as much ability to choose to ignore the bible and kill as the person following their own feelings and reasoning.

Absolutely nothing about believing in God or the moralities laid out by Him in the bible prevents a person from choosing to murder. In fact in some interpretations of the bible a person who does slip up and sin in this way, can, if he asks for forgiveness and pray to god, be forgiven for this sin. So Biblically a person has an out and can have their "sins" wiped clean. After all it was their sinful nature as a human that made them do it. They can still find their way to heaven and atone in the eyes of God.

Where as if the non-believer breaks from their moral compass they have no one to blame but themselves, and there is no one to forgive them but themselves and if they work very hard to actually improve themselves and demonstrate they have changed, possibly society, but don't bet on it.

A nonbeliever must live with and accept responsibility for their actions.

A believer can excuse their actions by their sinful nature, and find atonement in asking God for forgiveness.

I can see why the desire to believe in God is so prevalent among criminals in prison. Is so much easier and more comforting to excuse your actions as that of your sinful nature, and to believe in forgiveness for your actions in the afterlife than it is to accept full responsibility for your actions and the horror you've created of the only life you have to live.
edit on 7/3/2018 by Puppylove because: creating better flow



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