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Rising conservative star Jordan Peterson in debate: "Athiesm leads to murder"

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posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 09:37 AM
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I'm thinking the biggest constant, is that nobody really knows anything, until our demise, for absolutely, positively, sure.




posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 09:47 AM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Raggedyman


As a Christian, you don't believe your bible was given to you by "God"? What about Paul and Romans 13?


1 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. 2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished.


This is why we in the USA have a secular government, where the laws are established by the people under democratic principles.


Oh stupidity reigns supreme here
I do believe the bible was given by God, I just don't think it's 100% perfect, why are you projecting your utter and complete ignorance on me

Really the US is a secular government, really, did you just find that out, goody for you, so what

Now understand this, clearly.
The statment was that the Christian priests? Whatever a Christian priest is? Claim their authority to rule from God
My question wasn't about submitting to secular authority was it, where did I say or ask that, what and how is Romans 13 relevant to what I said about Christian priests and their authority to rule from God
Can you comprehend simple English, what's wrong with you, what's in your simple head

Go back and read, comprehend, grow up

ATS for some reason attracts simpletons



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: jjkenobi

Oh please tell me you are wearing a Fedora right now, because the neckbeardism is showing A LOT.
-- I am much smarter than you! (*) check
-- I have far better opinions than you! (*) check
-- Even my banner shows my most valued item (*) Mountain Dew, I check you
-- Atheism is my true religion ( ) uncheck? Uhm.. Are you sure you weren't confused there?

Okay, I am stopping ridiculing you now. The inherent error you did is in my opinion assuming that the atheist has subjective morals, which was shown by Phage as not true. An objective moral is indeed the inescapable result of Kants "Categorical imperative".
Which is even far more restrictive than the usual theistic idea of "do what I tell you is right", without justification in any kind.

Moses came down the mount Sinai with 10 commandments - like nobody ever had the idea of "You shall not kill." because that is evil. Or worshipping another god - evil in the eye of god alone, because why would you not worship another god, too? Sunday: christian god. Monday: hinduism? Why not?



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 09:48 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove




And I sometimes get the impression believers never felt quite ready to leave the comfort of their mother's bosoms and face the world as an adult responsible for making their own decisions and being responsible for their own actions.
I can't speak for other believers as I had left home when I was 17 ,moved 3000 miles away and lived for a few years before moving back to where I grew up and got married had some kids before becoming a believer . A Atheist back in this thread did say that his Atheist parents did play a big roll on his belief . Not sure if he is still with his mom or not but will safely assume he is no longer breast feeding .



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 09:50 AM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Raggedyman

As a non Christian I equally find it stunning how many church going Christians somehow still lack knowledge of major parts of the bible.

Ignorance everywhere, Christian and non-christian alike.

Is like people are just people regardless of faith or lack thereof. There's always people that think they know everything.


It staggers me the ignorance of Christians, amazing
It also staggers me how many atheists preach their version of Christianity as if they know everything

Sadly, both have there fair share of fundamentalists who have no idea and just want the argument and fight



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 09:55 AM
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originally posted by: jjkenobi
Yes, a thread where all the low IQ ATS posters can come bash religion and an argument made by someone 10x smarter than them. Hooray!

It's not a difficult concept to grasp. If you don't believe in God/higher power, then your morals are completely subjective and you have as a meaningless singular soul have no authority to tell another person your subjective morals are better than theirs. Therefore they are free to act on their own subjective morals as they wish.


I would love to see a decent argument against your statement mr kenobi
You will attract a bit of hate but no one will logically argue with you



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Um... symbolism and metaphors aren't your thing I see.

Point being that assuming a person being an atheist is somehow scared and crying out for help because they need the comfort of belief in a higher power is as patronizing as the belief that a believer feels the need to believe in a god because they can't bare the idea of being alone without some kind of supernatural parent figure to tell them what to do, and that everything will be all right.

You were being a patronizing ass, and I was responding in kind with the opposite form of it from the other side in hopes of pointing out the error of your ways.

I don't personally believe that's true of believers but I can see how one could get that impression.



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: Woodcarver




Non belief is not faith. No matter how many times you say it. I don’t believe in dragons. Is that faith?
I was using the word "lack" because another member wrote out just what Atheism was . The word faith has a two fold aspect that uses both a belief and a trust in that belief . As for dragons . well I think you need to get out more



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 09:57 AM
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a reply to: tribal

Thats not searching for him, thats seeking to be as gods with power over others. Seeking power is not exclusive to religionists or atheists

The 1st god was an atheist who believed in himself, so rose through tech and magic to be at the apex. Gods die and are reborn



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove




Um... symbolism and metaphors aren't your thing I see. Point being that assuming a person being an atheist is somehow scared and crying out for help because they need the comfort of belief in a higher power is as patronizing as the belief that a believer feels the need to believe in a god because they can't bare the idea of being alone without some kind of supernatural parent figure to tell them what to do, and that everything will be all right. You were being a patronizing ass, and I was responding in kind with the opposite form of it from the other side in hopes of pointing out the error of your ways. I don't personally believe that's true of believers but I can see how one could get that impression.
I am terrible at symbolism and metaphors . I an not very good at assuming either but I am working on all three
I once took note of how many times in a day a group of none believers would use the word "God" and the name "Jesus Christ " The data was quite surprising . How would a Atheist process that data or analyze it ? would they ask the question "why" ? just curious



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: ManFromEurope

Are you telling me that Kants "Cat Imp" is a scientific law
Inescapable result?


I am sometimes left speechless by some statements on ats

It's incredulous



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 10:23 AM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: the2ofusr1

And I sometimes get the impression believers never felt quite ready to leave the comfort of their mother's bosoms and face the world as an adult responsible for making their own decisions and being responsible for their own actions.


I disagree
I think true Christians are the ones who have made such a mess, stuffed things up so badly, caused so much damage, suffered so severely that they turn to God because they don't have any choice
They return to their Fathers bosom where they find the promise of safety and peace

Same same but different



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

My analysis is that those words are commonly used because Abrahamic religions are still in the majority, while Atheists are still in the minority. It's the circumstantial results in living in a culture where the majority belief is in an Abrahimic religion, no matter how butchered most believer's belief might be. I've met more lip service Christians than I have Christians with any kind of real study in the religion the profess to believe.

Atheists as people are as a rule a minority in a world of those who proclaim religion to some degree and many in their quest to find out where they fit in such a world will by the nature of their position discuss this situation often. Also as for Jesus Christ. Well one is more likely to blaspheme against a god they don't believe in.

The fact that people use words that are part of the culture that surrounds them is not particularly surprising, nor unusual. Nor is the fact that a people in the minority surrounded by a majority might discuss that issue. It's a bit more pressing of an issue to the minority than it is the majority.



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 10:33 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

LOL, maybe those were the ones that were kicked from the nest too early and found life was too hard on their own.

or more seriously along these lines of thinking,

Some leave the nest as a Christian, and continue to find comfort in their faith throughout their lives.

By the same token some leave as a Christian and find they can fly just fine on their own and don't need Christianity and become an Atheist.

Some leave as an Atheist thinking they can do everything and find it's harder than they thought and come back a Christian.

Some leave as an Atheist and find they do just fine on their own and stay an Atheist.



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 10:34 AM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver




Non belief is not faith. No matter how many times you say it. I don’t believe in dragons. Is that faith?
I was using the word "lack" because another member wrote out just what Atheism was . The word faith has a two fold aspect that uses both a belief and a trust in that belief . As for dragons . well I think you need to get out more
It’s not even that we don’t believe in gods. It’s more like we don’t believe your claims that gods exist. It’s not even a position against gods, it’s a position against your claims.

Your last line of defense is holding on to an “anything is possible mentality” because “science” can’t describe every little detail of existence. Somehow you seem to think that leaves room for the magical and impossible.

Please explain to me why faith is a good reason to believe in anything.



Komodo dragons? Are you really going to throw up a picture of a large lizard and say that is a dragon? Is that the level of comprehension that you want to work at? Komodo dragons = magical firebreathing dragons? Is that really what you thought i meant by dragon? Or did you think it would be witty to put that picture up and say “ yup, dragons are real.

If we could have this discussion at a higher level, this would be more fun. I guess if you had better points to make, you would make them.
edit on 2-7-2018 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove




My analysis is that those words are commonly used because Abrahamic religions are still in the majority, while Atheists are still in the minority. It's the circumstantial results in living in a culture where the majority belief is in an Abrahimic religion, no matter how butchered most believer's belief might be. I've met more lip service Christians than I have Christians with any kind of real study in the religion the profess to believe. Atheists as people are as a rule a minority in a world of those who proclaim religion to some degree and many in their quest to find out where they fit in such a world will by the nature of their position discuss this situation often. Also as for Jesus Christ. Well one is more likely to blaspheme against a god they don't believe in. The fact that people use words that are part of the culture that surrounds them is not particularly surprising, nor unusual. Nor is the fact that a people in the minority surrounded by a majority might discuss that issue. It's a bit more pressing of an issue to the minority than it is the majority.
Thank you for your honest reply . In what way is it a pressing issue for the group ? Inside Christianity its discussed a lot and there are many pressing issues taken up by groups within groups . The issues inside the faith are usually about taking action[s] to address and resolve them . Do you find the same sort of collectives inside Atheism ?

Finding a lack of Christian knowledge inside the group has always been a challenge for the most part . There are a few new approaches in bata that look very good if the numbers are any indication . You may see a bit of a explosion in quality over the next few years if this works out . Its basically the same thing happening for Peterson ,Rubin ,Harris and the rest of that gang ...lots and lots of numbers but also better quality audience response . I am a big fan of that format



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 10:48 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman




Oh stupidity reigns supreme here
I do believe the bible was given by God, I just don't think it's 100% perfect, why are you projecting your utter and complete ignorance on me


LOL! Oh, okay! God gave Christians an imperfect set of morals. It all makes sense now!



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: jjkenobi
will you please differentiate between morals and ethics

the hierarchy-
>the ism/the myth/the fantasy
>the sociopathic leaders
>the sociopathic hierarchy
>the true believers
>the dumbasses (enlightened or not)

result= bull# flows downwards, power flows upwards. this is religion.
and it s psychology!
the ism cannot be questioned- thats what heresy is.
religions are control systems.
politics doesnt really exist as such its a made up name for intersections of various beliefs.
look up definition of a cult.
unfortunately, people need common beliefs to function with a cohesive purpose.
i notice none of you are factoring in psychopathy, sociopathy or other deviant personality characteristics.
because thats the killer. none of your models are correct until you factor in this.



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

hows that!



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 11:08 AM
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a reply to: Woodcarver




It’s not even that we don’t believe in gods. It’s more like we don’t believe your claims that gods exist. It’s not even a position against gods, it’s a position against your claims. Your last line of defense is holding on to an “anything is possible mentality” because “science” can’t describe every little detail of existence. Somehow you seem to think that leaves room for the magical and impossible. Please explain to me why faith is a good reason to believe in anything.
First ,the dragon issue.
We both know or at least think we know of the dragon myth .We probably don't know every thing there is to know about the dragon , past, present, future . My mind is open on the subject .

"


It’s more like we don’t believe your claims that gods exist
Good that is very good because it was never Gods intention that you believe me about it but that you make that decision all on your own . You are allowed to use cheats though . just ask .Or make a decision to go and listen to someone .




Your last line of defense is holding on to an “anything is possible mentality” because “science” can’t describe every little detail of existence.
Actually my first steps to getting to the position of a believer only involved me and God . Science really didn't or couldn't add much to it . Your the one using science as a last line of defense to ignore the issue until "science " proves to you He does . not me . You want others to do your work in finding out buy making excuses and using others to do it weather its me or the scientist . Be responsible for you and stop blaming others . It would be like me blaming science for the world not having peace .



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