For 37 mins. . . people in Hawaii were left to believe that a missile was headed their way. Why?

originally posted by: CajunMetal

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: face23785

If this was accidental in nature, then this serves to highlight problems in the system that, to me, should have been anticipated.

That's actually been the entire point of everything I've said on this issue.

I think people have made some good speculations on this being, at worst, something other than a mistake, and at best, a mistake they most definitely learned something from.
There’s a difference between speculation on a conspiracy site and “just making # up”.

Speculation should at least be based in some kind of reasoning, not just making something up because you don't want to believe "the official story". In this case, all the available info points to it was a mistake.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: CajunMetal

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: face23785

If this was accidental in nature, then this serves to highlight problems in the system that, to me, should have been anticipated.

That's actually been the entire point of everything I've said on this issue.

I think people have made some good speculations on this being, at worst, something other than a mistake, and at best, a mistake they most definitely learned something from.
There’s a difference between speculation on a conspiracy site and “just making # up”.

Speculation should at least be based in some kind of reasoning, not just making something up because you don't want to believe "the official story". In this case, all the available info points to it was a mistake.

It is unreasonable to believe that the 38 minutes it took to inform the public that it was a false alarm was unintentional.

Can HEMA notify the public of a tsunami or do they have to wait 38 minutes to do it? Can they send an Amber Alert when a child is missing or do they have to wait 38 minutes to do it?

Can the local news interrupt previously scheduled programs with breaking news?

I think all the info we have says that 38 minutes without correction was intentional. Therefore, I think the sounding of the alarm was intentional, too, despite the 'official story' which is the ONLY info that suggests it was unintentional.

So I think the "available info" suggests my conclusion is correct, not yours.

Besides, the motivation to lie makes the information that you are relying on dubious at best.

Agree to disagree, but don't pretend you have solid facts and information. You have a story from a government agency with a lot of motivation to cover their butts.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

You made some excelelnt points!

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I don't buy the 'wrong button' story, computers have CTRL ALT DEL to solve a problem, and the US military shouldn't have a single button to determine the difference, they aren't traffic lights for Pete's Sake.

Red means Bad, Yellow means watch out and green means OK but even still knowing that means (a) The warning was 'staged' (b) the user was not adequately trained (c) The UI is crap-take your pick. All I know is the locals had their pants scared off, a caller to a radio station I was listening to said some folk were on their knees praying, I hope this doesn't turn into the boy who cried wolf.

originally posted by: Cauliflower
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Since all of the news agencies ran the same story at the exact same time we know there is a breaking news wire that could be compromised. ATS and Twitter connect local witnesses that can be used to corroborate or refute that official line. So it would be a little more difficult to broadcast a convincing Pearl Harbor attack with so much interactive media these days.

Twitter shadow bans, or so they say, wouldn't surprise if other big social media outlets also practice shadow bans. Shadow bans of real people with crisis actors being bumped could probably pass for a real event.

a reply to: Xenogears

Sounds kind of retro like the old Shadowrun, but we have Ghost Dancers on ATS.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: CajunMetal

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: face23785

If this was accidental in nature, then this serves to highlight problems in the system that, to me, should have been anticipated.

That's actually been the entire point of everything I've said on this issue.

I think people have made some good speculations on this being, at worst, something other than a mistake, and at best, a mistake they most definitely learned something from.
There’s a difference between speculation on a conspiracy site and “just making # up”.

Speculation should at least be based in some kind of reasoning, not just making something up because you don't want to believe "the official story". In this case, all the available info points to it was a mistake.

It is unreasonable to believe that the 38 minutes it took to inform the public that it was a false alarm was unintentional.

Can HEMA notify the public of a tsunami or do they have to wait 38 minutes to do it? Can they send an Amber Alert when a child is missing or do they have to wait 38 minutes to do it?

Can the local news interrupt previously scheduled programs with breaking news?

I think all the info we have says that 38 minutes without correction was intentional. Therefore, I think the sounding of the alarm was intentional, too, despite the 'official story' which is the ONLY info that suggests it was unintentional.

So I think the "available info" suggests my conclusion is correct, not yours.

Besides, the motivation to lie makes the information that you are relying on dubious at best.

Agree to disagree, but don't pretend you have solid facts and information. You have a story from a government agency with a lot of motivation to cover their butts.

Don't pretend I have solid facts and information like what you're doing? Pretending they have a reason to cover anything, based on nothing, and ignoring the fact that taking the blame for something is the diametric opposite of covering your ass? If they wanted to cover their asses they would say it got hacked and blame it on some security flaw that was left unfixed by their predecessors. "This was our fault" is covering your ass? You've spun yourself into an embarrassing knot trying to find some way for you to be in the know about some mythical secret operation. There's no info that suggests it was intentional. The only thing you're basing that on is some misguided faith in government that makes you think they couldn't make this kind of mistake.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: MotherMayEye

I don't buy the 'wrong button' story, computers have CTRL ALT DEL to solve a problem, and the US military shouldn't have a single button to determine the difference, they aren't traffic lights for Pete's Sake.

Red means Bad, Yellow means watch out and green means OK but even still knowing that means (a) The warning was 'staged' (b) the user was not adequately trained (c) The UI is crap-take your pick. All I know is the locals had their pants scared off, a caller to a radio station I was listening to said some folk were on their knees praying, I hope this doesn't turn into the boy who cried wolf.

The military didn't do this. This was done by a state-run civilian organization. You don't even know the basics of the story and you're levying judgement. Please get informed.

. It is unreasonable to believe that the 38 minutes it took to inform the public that it was a false alarm was unintentional.

Can HEMA notify the public of a tsunami or do they have to wait 38 minutes to do it? Can they send an Amber Alert when a child is missing or do they have to wait 38 minutes to do it?

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Wonder how the Hawaii EMA (Emergency Management Agency)

1) Sent out a false alert of missile attack

2) Took 38 minutes to cancel it

Refer to this article from Boston Herald 6 months ago outlining steps would take in case of missile attack

www.thegatewaypundit.com...

The Herald showed pictures of computer monitors with passwords written on Post-It notes stuck to the screen !

Example : Password Warningpoint2

Remember never attribute to conspiracy which can be explained by stupidity ......

Stupidity seems to abound here ........

originally posted by: Catch_a_Fire
I briefly mentioned this in another thread but it's hard to believe this could have been a mistake. There's no one button that can be pressed as a mistake. I'm sure it would have, at least, had to go through a person in charge or two before authority to raise the alert was given.

Whatever it was..... it isn't what we're being told..... IMO.

Do you have proof of there being "no one button"? I've personally designed and tested mass notification systems for a living, and guess what, once you get to the menu asking what type of alert you'd like to send, there is in fact an "Initiate" button next to each of the labels. Throw in some automated logic that is fed data from systems, and I find it hard to believe that it hasn't happened more often.

originally posted by: firerescue

. It is unreasonable to believe that the 38 minutes it took to inform the public that it was a false alarm was unintentional.

Can HEMA notify the public of a tsunami or do they have to wait 38 minutes to do it? Can they send an Amber Alert when a child is missing or do they have to wait 38 minutes to do it?

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Wonder how the Hawaii EMA (Emergency Management Agency)

1) Sent out a false alert of missile attack

2) Took 38 minutes to cancel it

Refer to this article from Boston Herald 6 months ago outlining steps would take in case of missile attack

www.thegatewaypundit.com...

The Herald showed pictures of computer monitors with passwords written on Post-It notes stuck to the screen !

Example : Password Warningpoint2

Remember never attribute to conspiracy which can be explained by stupidity ......

Stupidity seems to abound here ........

[sarcasm]But, but.. the government is super duper at everything! I'm basing this on a lifetime of Hollywood movies where the government always has the latest technology and everyone is superbly trained and never does anything by mistake![/sarcasm]

Seriously man, don't waste your breath. The "it was on purpose" theory is only 2 days old and they're already so invested in it they will NEVER let go of it.

a reply to: face23785

I'm not embarrassed. But I would be if I said I believed their hands were tied for 38 minutes and no one could call the local news or send out an alert warning letting people know it was a false alarm.

originally posted by: parad0x122

originally posted by: Catch_a_Fire
I briefly mentioned this in another thread but it's hard to believe this could have been a mistake. There's no one button that can be pressed as a mistake. I'm sure it would have, at least, had to go through a person in charge or two before authority to raise the alert was given.

Whatever it was..... it isn't what we're being told..... IMO.

Do you have proof of there being "no one button"? I've personally designed and tested mass notification systems for a living, and guess what, once you get to the menu asking what type of alert you'd like to send, there is in fact an "Initiate" button next to each of the labels. Throw in some automated logic that is fed data from systems, and I find it hard to believe that it hasn't happened more often.

People that have first-hand knowledge and are telling them it absolutely could've been an accident, we're just asshole skeptics or disinformation agents. The conspiracy mythers have inside info they made up, they know better than to trust #theofficialstory

a reply to: firerescue

Still doesn't explain why they couldn't contact the local news and put out an alert saying it was a false alarm.

a reply to: face23785

You're right. I won't let go of it.

Just a few minutes ago, my children's school system managed to call the local news and tell them school was closed. That news can be found on all four local news stations.

You're asking me to believe that during the course of a half an hour...calling the local news didn't occur to the government agency charged with alerting the public?

You are free to believe that all you want, but I would feel like a total dumb@ss if I were you.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: face23785

I'm not embarrassed. But I would be if I said I believed their hands were tied for 38 minutes and no one could call the local news or send out alert warning letting people know it was a false alarm.

So you can't conceive of a system where they have a bunch of pre-programmed messages like the original warning that went out, some "all clear" messages, "missile was intercepted, threat neutralized" and things like that and never thought to put in a "We #ed up, this is a false alarm" message so it took them some time to manually program that and send it? And not everyone is gonna be trained on how to manually program new messages, so they had to get someone down there who could do it. And this is assuming they knew instantly they had sent the message, it doesn't take into account how long it took them to realize it. If you're in a secure facility, you may not have your phone on you, so nobody actually in there would've received the message.

But no, you'd rather believe the government is infallible. And this wasn't even federal government. It was state government in a far-left state which means on it's more bloated and inefficient than the average state government.

a reply to: face23785

No. I don't believe that Hawaii could send no alerts, at all, during those 38 minutes.

No Amber Alerts, no severe weather warnings, no tsunami warnings...because they sent out a missile alert.

Nope. I don't believe that.

When I get any alerts, they always contain UNIQUE information. Not some pre-programmed message that is the same every time.

And it was 38 minutes until the official alert system was able to be programmed to send the "false alarm" follow-up. Tulsi Gabbard had a tweet out there saying it was a false alarm (which she confirmed with officials) within 10 minutes, and this was being picked up by the media. Police were notified in short order as well that it was a false alarm. So pretending no action was taken for 38 minutes is just dishonest.

Timeline

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: face23785

No. I don't believe that Hawaii could send no alerts, at all, during those 38 minutes.

No Amber Alerts, no severe weather warnings, no tsunami warnings...because they sent out a missile alert.

Nope. I don't believe that.

When I get any alerts, they always contain UNIQUE information. Not some pre-programmed message that is the same every time.

So you've never received a missile alert, got it. So you have no basis to say it's not pre-programmed. There is basis to say it is though. See link above. Your theory is busted, sorry. I realize you're emotionally invested in it at this point, so you're unlikely to accept this info. You'll just pretend the media is in on it or something. Next time don't be so gullible and believe every baseless theory you hear about every recent event.

a reply to: face23785

I mean, I'm not going to say that governmental agency don't have fail safes in place, but my systems served communities of people in the tens of thousands and they definitely did not. And this was on a multi-billion dollar funded project.

I guess my point is, I'd find it hard to believe that everything in the way of government systems requires 2 unique keys, turned simultaneously by high ranking officials, while getting a retinal and thumbprint scan, while reciting the "secret" passphrase

Now to be completely fair though, I don't have proof that they don't either. I'm just stating what I've experienced firsthand, that's all.