Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: ctj83

Very true and this sort of brings thing around full circle back to page 1 and former MUFON Director James Carrion's thoughts.

I think a lot of people in ufology may not like to hear, ... - there are folks that are in the field that call themselves ufologists, call themselves researchers, investigative journalists – whatever they want to call themselves, it doesn't really matter – but when their modus operandi is to perpetuate the mystery instead of solving it, we have a big issue. ... as long as these people are out there hawking their latest theories ...if you don't have a sincere interest in truth, if you're simply interested in making the rounds of the UFO talk circuit... you're part of the problem, not part of the solution....

...if you think you can dance with these intelligence agencies and they don't want you to dance with them, you're never gonna dance. ... I think there is a very interesting dance happening between ufology and the intelligence organizations that have more to do with what the goals of the intelligence agencies are than a cover up of extraterrestrial visitation....

... Skinwalker Ranch to me is interesting for a couple reasons. To me, the mythology – and I'll call it mythology because I don't think what's written in the book is accurate..

Why was it being built up? I think it had somewhat to do with the mythology surrounding Area 51. Somebody wants to continue that mythology. The same way that the mythology is continued around Dulce...

All I know is somebody is obfuscating what is really going on, and I don't think it has to do with protecting people's lives [concerning the lack of access and lack of transparency]. I think it's something else...

...if you go into this field with an open mind, you put aside your beliefs, you really look to see why there's so much noise surrounding this field. Pay attention to the noise. Pay attention to the characters that are in the field.
See : Page 1

I think we all know who the characters are. We don't need to name them. They make 90% of the noise.

None of them have got anywhere close to solving any UFO mystery and many of them tell blatant lies. The current status quo serves the needs of the MIC and provides an income flow for their stooges who spout this nonsense. That's it.

Where else in the world do we hear these crazy, stories from MJ12, battles with aliens on Mars, strange bits that fall off UFOs, how the aliens came here because they were annoyed at our nuclear weapons then decided to give the only nation that ever used them in anger even more super technology so they could create a secret space program and presumably nuke the bad aliens!!!!

You don't get many of these stories out of Oz or Japan or Europe do you?

Whatever the 'phenomenon' may well be then any real attempts to get to the truth are obscured by these people who do it for their own means. That's why they are determining how best to 'control the narrative'. But they've run out of decent writers.

Great post

Carrion's always been someone worth listening to because he's been amongst the crowd for years; burnt by BAASS, screwed by MUFON and cold shouldered by establishment ufologists. His element 115 anecdote pops in my mind every time someone promotes the credibility of Skinwalker ranch research because it's such a folkloric detail. I mean, how many genuine scientists would name-check it if they weren't already fluent in myths and myth making?

I have written before about the coming war between the Intelligence Agencies and Ufology and a series of recent events lead me to believe that this war which started some time ago is now in full battle. You see, these intelligence agencies are absolutely obsessed with control and when an intelligence source like MUFON acts outside of the box the intelligence agencies would like to contain it in, then the gloves come off and the punches fly.

MUFON – an intelligence source? Yep, that is exactly how the US Air Force Office of Special Investigation (AFOSI) and other related three letter agency see any UFO organization that collects detailed data on strange things flying around our atmosphere. Of course, AFOSI knows what’s operating in US Air Space, but they want to control what data reaches say the Russians and the Chinese about what is flying around. AFOSI prefers that the general public think of it as a “UFO” and not the latest US stealth fighter or bomber, but of greater concern is what our less than believing and less than glazed eye enemy intelligence analysts glean from the published sighting data.

From his self-closed Follow the Magic blog Feb 3, 2011 7:32 PM (no link because it's gone)

I'm not as convinced as he has been with regards to his Cold war hypothesis, but it's a huge component in the overall public conception of UFOs and very few were selling the idea before he was.

a reply to: Kandinsky

It all stinks to be honest.. The IC has infiltrated any and all large ufo organisations, going back to the 50s with APRO, NICAP and the rest.

What I find funny is that I believe this "war" is totally nonsensical and modern ufologys three pillars (Rendlesham,Roswell,Lazar) have foundations constructed purely of sand that any new group comes along clings to for credibility.

These three pillars are much like the banks back in 2008, they are too big to go bust, because if they do...everything surrounding it will ultimately collapse with it.

Those propagating and regurgitating these stories, as you quite rightly mentioned and quoted, have little self interest in solving them or debunking them.

Ufology as kev kev stated is a terminal patient that's on life support and I for one wouldn't mind seeing those three pillars demolished and exposed for what they truly are.

To use a statement I have made previously in regards to your post, if humans discovered a cure for cancer and we were all innocluated as infants from it....no-one would give to money to cancer research anymore, there would be no point.

I may be coming across as harsh here, but the sad thing about ufology and what I find most frustrating is not the; phenomenon / alien / UAP / UFO aspect, there certainly is a phenomenon of some kind, it's biggest issue is very much a human one.

a reply to: pigsy2400

It's biggest issue is very much a human one

Go on...

a reply to: mirageman


Hey mm, where you been, I thought you sold out…or were abducted by a Milab.

Or maybe TDL gave you a doll, cap or a tee shirt with Zondo’s face on it and some greenbacks, oh, no, in your case some pounds

a reply to: pigsy2400

I can agree with you but what can we actually expect from UFOlogy?
It’s made up of human beings like us all.

Ufology is as good or bad as the human condition, and the human condition is pretty f____ up.

There have been fine UFOlogists and good or even great reporting by some of them...Vallee, Keel, Tim Goode, and many many others have contributed greatly to UFOlogy.
In other words, there have been some outstanding ones.

And we have outstanding ones I would say on ATS. I would call mm an outstanding UFOlogist and of course, the estimable Issacoi and many more.

Though overall I agree with your negative analysis

a reply to: Willtell

I bet he is in the pub...)))

I look forward to the winter collection. But please NO onesises!!

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: mirageman


Hey mm, where you been, I thought you sold out…or were abducted by a Milab.

Or maybe TDL gave you a doll, cap or a tee shirt with Zondo’s face on it and some greenbacks, oh, no, in your case some pounds

As you can see I've been getting a pumpkin fitted onto my neck. You have to be quick as no one actually eats them here in Blighty. We only used them as a form of relief from constipation. So they are only sold for one month of the year. But we all take our trick or treating seriously.

Been working on the winter look for Zondo as well. Not so much clothing more facial fur to make him seem a bit more fiery for his upcoming role as the 'Gingerbeard Man' and who knows where that will take him.


Better red than dead they say. Although don't worry he is just asleep here waiting for his anaesthetic to wear off.

a reply to: mirageman

I didn’t know they celebrated Halloween in the UK!

Wow, I thought my favorite holiday was an American thing


As for Zondo, he's probably somewhere having a drink of whiskey on the rocks...

What really might be happening to TTSA, the reason they have produced zero so far is that maybe they don’t know what to do.

Or the organization was a fraud from start.

What exactly are they supposed to be investigating?

They at least could go back and revisit the old investigations of the few legitimate UFOlogists like Keel, Vallee, Meade Layne and many others or even the blue book files

Where’s their UFO scholarship?

Do they even have a plan?

a reply to: mirageman

No onesies for Zondo?? Damn!

While I am here, is it my imagination or, is Nick Pope out in full force twice as much as usual.

He is like a terrible rash. Just wondering. He seems to be riding a few trains here there and everywhere?

a reply to: Willtell

I didn’t know they celebrated Halloween in the UK!

Yes our Celtic ancestors invented Halloween a couple of thousand years ago or more!!

What really might be happening to TTSA, the reason they have produced zero so far is that maybe they don’t know what to do. Or the organization was a fraud from start.....

The end of UAP material testing was supposed to be yesterday according to the contract signed with ETI. If that wasn't all a front for something else then what exactly is in that report? We haven't even had a video from them this month either.

I guess some of that silence is related to the upcoming mid-term elections. After that we've all mulled over what is going on. A part of me wants to be proven wrong and that TTSA is secretly backed by a bunch of mavericks in the Pentagon and they are desperately trying to fight against hard-liners to get at least some of the secrets out in the public domain.

But it certainly doesn't feel that way and still smells of Trondant.

Maybe originally there was a big fear that Russia or China had gotten hold of some secret information because Assange or Snowden had leaked something very sensitive. So a cover up plan was put in place under the Obama Administration. Now it's lost traction because of the new administration and Trump's 'slightly more friendly' attitude to despotic regimes and dismissive attitude to many American allies.

a reply to: mirageman

So many secrets have lost count of them all. 😐

a reply to: mirageman

I'd say that Russia and China have better access to our 'secret information'
than most parts of the US government.

They are very devious and committed little hackers.. shipping us computer
systems with snooping software built right into the system BIOS and
other system level stuff.

Do you really think that the cold war strategy of faking UFO information
for the purposes of deceiving Stalin and his successors is still in play?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

It may not be a ploy to convince foreign adversaries Kev.

When the UK import technology products from abroad for use in our defence industry we have various policies in place to ensure that those risks are minimized. But we know the US military has been slack in the past.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I'd say that Russia and China have better access to our 'secret information' 
than most parts of the US government. 

Maybe....You are into computers.

Which reminds me. Not really related but as you were friendly with Vallee what did he think to Jims binary been beamed into his mind when touching the alleged craft.? Sorry slightly off topic .

a reply to: mirageman

Oh, so the English invented everything



Or, that’s a mask on Theresa May after all…damn

a reply to: Baablacksheep

I won't speak for JV on this point.. but he did write the
book "Messengers of Deception".

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

That is understandable.

a reply to: pigsy2400

It all stinks to be honest.. The IC has infiltrated any and all large ufo organisations, going back to the 50s with APRO, NICAP and the rest.

The IC had to be involved to filter and control what people were reporting. I suspect some ufologists ever since have had their credibility boosted to either become gatekeepers or are close friends with guys in the IC community. Who can blame them either? Creating evil aliens and discrediting people is Scooby Doo 101 for protecting national security interests.

What I find funny is that I believe this "war" is totally nonsensical and modern ufologys three pillars (Rendlesham,Roswell,Lazar) have foundations constructed purely of sand that any new group comes along clings to for credibility.

I posted a thread a few years ago that compared ufology of 2010 to ufology of 1950 - 1960 or 2010? 50 Lost Years in Ufology. It didn't get off the first page and faded away. It's still a fair argument that nothing had changed in 2010 and arguably nothing has changed in the last 8 years.

I may be coming across as harsh here, but the sad thing about ufology and what I find most frustrating is not the; phenomenon / alien / UAP / UFO aspect, there certainly is a phenomenon of some kind, it's biggest issue is very much a human one.

Perhaps the kindest thing to say about ufology is it's a fun way to waste time and it brings interesting characters together.

This was posted on the other thread.

I think Tom was praying he looks bored #less😂.

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