Brexit - ‘No deal’ planning is well under way, says Minister

a reply to: Staycurious

I just believe that a lot of the fear and the dread in this country about leaving should cause us to pause & think, how on earth did we go from those pictures of drinking cups of tea amongst the ruins of the blitz with a stiff upper lip to being so terrified of the consequences of being a free independent Great Britain.

To be fair, Brexit isn't a global conflict, and it doesn't take much bravery to sit on a bomb-site and drink tea after the bombers have returned to Germany. A fairer picture of London during the Blitz might be seen on the London Underground, where Londoners took shelter whenever possible. You can see the sort of scenes that took place at around the 40-second mark onward, in the video below.

(Also worth noting: the London Underground wasn't open as a shelter, people had to buy tickets to take cover there!)



In fact the single deadliest non-military incident to occur in London during the war was when 173 people (including 84 women and 62 children) were crushed to death in a stampede as East Enders trampled on one another to take shelter at Bethnal Green tube station. The Government imposed a news blackout on the incident, fearing it would damage morale.

Point being: although there was genuine civilian bravery and stoicism during WWII, a lot of it is romanticised mythology. And anyway, Britain didn't have much of a choice about fighting against Nazi Germany. It was something we (the nation) all had to pull together and endure, if we weren't actually in combat.

Brexit is a massively different proposition - we are voluntarily pulling out of an international alliance that has made life in Britain materially better, and we haven't got a plan for how to cope either with the event or for the aftermath.

Personally, I think it's very telling that Britons are thinking of Brexit in terms of a war. If there were any conflict-related situation that might be analogous, it's Russia pulling out of WWI due to a domestic revolution. And even that's stretching it!

a reply to: andy06shake

Certainly can't disagree with any of that post.

Far too many private agenda's at play - and one thing is for certain, the wishes and best interests of the ordinary, everyday British people will not be at the forefront of any of those agenda's.

Rid ourselves of the twats in Brussels then let's go about doing the same with their counterparts here in the UK.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Has no-one been watching the pound lately, Has no-one been paying attention to the rises in food prices of late. Have you tried buying from abroad recently, and i'm not talking a cheap set of screw driver from amazon for under a 5er. I was quoted £300 for a car part, the part jumped to £400 in a week. A friend of mine buys guitar parts from the US on a bi-monthly basis, He's put things on hold for now because the pound to dollar has went tits up.

Are you all blind ffs.

And we havn't even left the EU yet. There will be a major crash in 2018,...You Watch... it'll make these last 9 years seem like a gold rush.

Whats crazy is that when you point out stuff like this you will be accused of scaremongering or that this is just what "they" (the eu) want to keep us so scared of economic doom that we change our minds and remain.

The only problem is that right now this is a very very real problem, right after the vote the pound tanked, I don't think its ever actually recovered, economicaly this is going to be a disaster when we finally pull it. It only makes sense that the EU are going to want to make it very difficult for us, in fact the ideal situation for the EU is either that we change our minds or that we leave then go into deep ecumenic crisis so they can hold the UK up as a example of what happens when you leave the EU.

Exactly. I cant believe how stupid people have been, Ok we all make mistakes but blindly refusing to aknowlege you made a mistake is what makes it 10 x worse. The Tories never expected for one minute the UK would vote out. Labour are only going along with it because they know if they say other wise then they've just blown any chance they have of downing street. Inside the tories and labour will be feeling physically sick at the thought of this. They have to put a brave face on but the tories know they have well and truely #ed everyone over in this country.

Governments are often accused of being seriously out of touch with the public and the brexit referedum was a perfect example of just how out of touch they really are. Muppets.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It only makes sense that the EU are going to want to make it very difficult for us,

The E.U. are playing their last hand by trying to frighten The U.K. in changing it's mind about leaving.

And it's working on some people.

The E.U. exports £280 billion of goods to The U.K. each year. There is no way that would wish to sacrifice that.

True but there is another side to it, you have to look at from the point of view of the EU.

If the UK makes a clean break, gets a good enough deal that it can then thrive economically with out the constraints of EU membership then other states with a lot of Euro-skeptics are then also going to want to leave the union, before you know it states start dropping off and the union crumbles. So sure they might lose £200bn worth of trade just now but they could stand to lose their entire union potentially if other states see leaving the EU as a viable option.

So for the EU if the UK is going to leave the best thing they can do is make it hurt so that none of the other member states will ever think that leaving the EU is a good idea. They will want to be able to turn round to the next state that starts talking about leaving the EU and say "well ok but look what happened to the UK...."

Now sure you can complain about how wrong that is of the EU but they have to serve in their best interests just like we in the UK have to act in our best interests.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It only makes sense that the EU are going to want to make it very difficult for us,

The E.U. are playing their last hand by trying to frighten The U.K. in changing it's mind about leaving.

And it's working on some people.

The E.U. exports £280 billion of goods to The U.K. each year. There is no way they would wish to sacrifice that.

They export £280 billion of goods here because we need it, If we could get it here at the same price or less we wouldn't need to export it. The price for these good is already climbing and after Brexit the price goes up massively. Dont you get that.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

They export £280 billion of goods here because we need it

Really ?

So it's only E.U. countries that produce Pharmaceuticals, cars, food exports, etc.

Have you not already noticed how much we already import from China ?

Get real.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It only makes sense that the EU are going to want to make it very difficult for us,

The E.U. are playing their last hand by trying to frighten The U.K. in changing it's mind about leaving.

And it's working on some people.

The E.U. exports £280 billion of goods to The U.K. each year. There is no way they would wish to sacrifice that.

They export £280 billion of goods here because we need it, If we could get it here at the same price or less we wouldn't need to export it. The price for these good is already climbing and after Brexit the price goes up massively. Dont you get that.

I agree with you but I don't think you've taken it far enough.

Lets say right now we import £280bn from the EU, we do that because we need to import a lot of manufactured goods and are members of the EU so we have a trade deal right away that grants us all kinds of benefits to help facilitate that massive trade.

The reason we need to import is because the UK has gone from a manufacturing economy to a primarily service based economy. We have got to import.

After Brexit we lose our access to the single market and we have to trade with the EU under a different trade agreement. There is no way in hell that the EU are going to give us a "as good as" or a better deal that they give their members for the reasons I outlined above. So what is going to happen is that the EU are basically going to bleed us dry of cash, we are not suddenly going to not need those imports overnight its just that they are going to become more expensive. That means less cash in the wallets of the UK taxpayer and less money for the taxman to spend on public services and before you know it our whole economy is going down the pan.

Whats worse is that because we are a service/banking based economy a lot of financial institutions currently based in London and other big cities are going to move out eventually because when you do most of your business with the EU but are based in a non-eu state that creates a lot of problems. So now we have massive jobs loses as well to compound the problem.

dp

Someone on here said of Farmers when i mentioned they will no longer get subsidies,.." oh well, they will need to work harder"...

Is from sun up to sundown not hard enough for you. I know many farmers and they work incredible hours and incredibly hard, I've never known one to take a holiday. The idea of subsidies is not to give farmers a free hand out, but so they dont over produce and we end up with mountains of grain, dairy etc with every farmer across europe cutting each others throat selling it off as cheap as.

Farmers here in the UK and in the EU take turns at producing certain goods at certain times, it also allows the land to recover. It's produce managment on a massive scale and it works. It keeps prices at a level where most can afford it.

Take away UK Farmers susidies and they will have to up production and prices massively and hope we buy or just give up altogether.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: fusiondoe

originally posted by: Staycurious
I'm not going to pretend I have a lot of knowledge about how leaving the eu should or will happen, what I notice is how the people of Great Britain are getting upset about not having the safety net of eu rules eu trade & being a member of the club, yes we should be very concerned about how this will pan out, but how on earth did we get to the point that we are worried about so much because we will no longer belong to the club, people are panicking because the eu is so controlling why are we so desperate to stay under their power? I think of all the memes that were being posted around after the Brexit vote of pictures of milkman still delivering the milk through bombed streets during the war. & that really was the British attitude of keep calm and carry on. What would those people think of us now. Imagine if we could transport past generations right from those scenes of those pictures to right now, where they would hear us worrying how we can't cope without the eu membership & we're so worried about how negotiations with the Germans are going & how our government is not making negotiations nice & simple & easy. What do you think they would think ? I think they'd have a stroke. we have somehow lost that part of us & while the eu Union has been fantastic for a lot, we have got to a point where we literally worry about being in the big wide world without being part of it Great Britain is scared we can't be great without the rest of Europe. Like I said before I wont pretend to know a great amount about how this is going to play out or even how we should play it out. I just believe that a lot of the fear and the dread in this country about leaving should cause us to pause & think, how on earth did we go from those pictures of drinking cups of tea amongst the ruins of the blitz with a stiff upper lip to being so terrified of the consequences of being a free independent Great Britain.

This^^^^^ best comment I’ve seen in a long time!

My grandparents and many others who fought in the war must be turning in their graves

Yeah, Lets all just get the tetley on and union flags out as we gather round the old piano for a chorus of knees up matha bran. Ahh...Feel better already.

Lol PG Tips my friend... in fact, tea leaves and a tea pot. tea bags are too modern

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: fusiondoe

originally posted by: Staycurious
I'm not going to pretend I have a lot of knowledge about how leaving the eu should or will happen, what I notice is how the people of Great Britain are getting upset about not having the safety net of eu rules eu trade & being a member of the club, yes we should be very concerned about how this will pan out, but how on earth did we get to the point that we are worried about so much because we will no longer belong to the club, people are panicking because the eu is so controlling why are we so desperate to stay under their power? I think of all the memes that were being posted around after the Brexit vote of pictures of milkman still delivering the milk through bombed streets during the war. & that really was the British attitude of keep calm and carry on. What would those people think of us now. Imagine if we could transport past generations right from those scenes of those pictures to right now, where they would hear us worrying how we can't cope without the eu membership & we're so worried about how negotiations with the Germans are going & how our government is not making negotiations nice & simple & easy. What do you think they would think ? I think they'd have a stroke. we have somehow lost that part of us & while the eu Union has been fantastic for a lot, we have got to a point where we literally worry about being in the big wide world without being part of it Great Britain is scared we can't be great without the rest of Europe. Like I said before I wont pretend to know a great amount about how this is going to play out or even how we should play it out. I just believe that a lot of the fear and the dread in this country about leaving should cause us to pause & think, how on earth did we go from those pictures of drinking cups of tea amongst the ruins of the blitz with a stiff upper lip to being so terrified of the consequences of being a free independent Great Britain.

This^^^^^ best comment I’ve seen in a long time!

My grandparents and many others who fought in the war must be turning in their graves

Yeah, Lets all just get the tetley on and union flags out as we gather round the old piano for a chorus of knees up matha bran. Ahh...Feel better already.

Lol PG Tips my friend... in fact, tea leaves and a tea pot. tea bags are too modern

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Labour, Tories, Lib Dems etc, etc - all pissing in the same pot.
None of them want Brexit and all want to ignore the British people's wishes.

All they want is to maintain the status quo and their place at the trough.

Out of touch?
Of course they are, and that's exactly how they want it to stay - they believe they have a right to govern, control and exploit.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: Soloprotocol

They export £280 billion of goods here because we need it

Really ?

So it's only E.U. countries that produce Pharmaceuticals, cars, food exports, etc.

Have you not already noticed how much we already import from China ?

Get real.

And you do realise how complex a trade deal is to sort out, its not like you phone up and and have a nice little chat about it over a cup of tea then sign a few papers a couple of months later.

Trade deals can take years to negotiate.

Also after Brexit, if the UK economy is going to tank, which it looks like it very well could do, then the big International players are not going to be banging on our door for a deal. They only want a deal with a economically prosperous state.

Also they won't really even be able to make any kind of deals before Brexit is finalised because they won't know how we look as a economy independent from the EU and how our trade deal with the EU could impact on any other potential trade deals.

So even after Brexit it will take us years, not months, to arrange new trade partnerships.

the whole thing is a mess!

I 100% agree that getting some of our sovereignty back and cutting the red-tape of the EU is a good thing, as taking back control of our own boarders.

However the reality is that unless you can ensure our economy remains strong and stable none of that really matters.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Take away UK Farmers susidies and they will have to up production and prices massively and hope we buy or just give up altogether.

I'm hopeful that an alternative system will be arranged direct from UK Treasury instead of a third party giving British taxes back.
It would be political suicide to ruin the agricultural industry, so if 'they' did I guess the SNP and Labour parties would get in power and save our farms.
More drama doom porn.

a reply to: Freeborn

If I could give you multiple stars...I would have...hear hear!

Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Someone on here said of Farmers when i mentioned they will no longer get subsidies,.." oh well, they will need to work harder"...

Yeah, that was me I think.

It was said slightly tongue in cheek and more for dramatic effect than accuracy - I should know better.

Farmers work very hard - not sure about never having an holiday, one I know is currently in Thailand and Cambodia with some mates of mine, never appealed to me.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Our real " Friends " are countries such as Japan, China, India and to some extent The U.S.

They have invested in The U.K. by putting manufacturing plants here.

In the main, E.U. countries have taken them away.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Our real " Friends " are countries such as Japan, China, India and to some extent The U.S.

They have invested in The U.K. by putting manufacturing plants here.

In the main, E.U. countries have taken them away.

I must say I think thats quite a nieve view, just saying that they are our friends so will help us out, this isn't like moving house where you rope a few mates in to help you move things about. Neither does it negate any of the points I made above they all still stand.

Also for a lot of those trading partners you mention if it came down to a choice between a deal with the UK or a post Brexit EU, the would pick the EU every time because its just a bigger treading partner. It took years for the entire EU to establish a trade deal with Japan for example and that is Japan trying to deal with a market of half a billion people vs the much smaller UK market, Obama said that it would take about 10 years for the UK to finalise a trade deal with the US.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I must say I think thats quite a nieve view,

Do you think so ?

I would say it was more a case of then giving employment.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: Soloprotocol

They export £280 billion of goods here because we need it

Really ?

So it's only E.U. countries that produce Pharmaceuticals, cars, food exports, etc.

Have you not already noticed how much we already import from China ?

Get real.

Exactly, if euro countries don't want to access our market others are waiting to profit from thier folly. At this point I'm more than happy for that. No goodwill remains.