Brexit - ‘No deal’ planning is well under way, says Minister

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I must say I think thats quite a nieve view,

Do you think so ?

I would say it was more a case of then giving employment.

If every UK plant shut down in China tomorrow the workers would find new jobs in a month.

Now that is never going to happen but China is now the factory of the world, we need them more than they need us, doesn't matter how many factories we open we need their cheap labour and they know it. That is all they care about.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

we need them more than they need us

And that is exactly why we should be building better trade relations with them, without E.U. restrictions which tie our hands.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

we need them more than they need us

And that is exactly why we should be building better trade relations with them, without E.U. restrictions which tie our hands.

And I agree with you 100% the only slight issue however is that after Brexit it will take us years to negotiate that in the mist of what could amount to total economic collapse and as such it could be impossible to enter into a trade agreement with them.

Honestly if you can convince me that economically the UK will remain strong after Brexit, I would be 100% behind it.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

we need them more than they need us

And that is exactly why we should be building better trade relations with them, without E.U. restrictions which tie our hands.

And I agree with you 100% the only slight issue however is that after Brexit it will take us years to negotiate that in the mist of what could amount to total economic collapse and as such it could be impossible to enter into a trade agreement with them.

Honestly if you can convince me that economically the UK will remain strong after Brexit, I would be 100% behind it.

All i can say to you is " Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life "

No good worrying about what may or may not happen. We start with a blank sheet of paper.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Farmers here in the UK and in the EU take turns at producing certain goods at certain times, it also allows the land to recover. It's produce managment on a massive scale and it works. It keeps prices at a level where most can afford it

No disrespect, but you are you are ignorant of agriculture economics. Farming and fisheries are two areas the EU has royally fukked up. The Common Agricultural Policy has been instrumental in destroying the countryside in the UK and making some landowners very, very rich. Fishing communities - including in Scotland - have been impoverished by the need to keep fleets of foreign trawlers economic.

If there was a reason to leave the EU it would be to escape from the ludicrous CAP and CFP.

a reply to: Freeborn

"Rid ourselves of the twats in Brussels then let's go about doing the same with their counterparts here in the UK."

That might actually work, don't know about the legality of it all the same. I mean hanging all the politicians and their banker compadres from the lamposts is a crime right? Coz that's pretty much what it would take.

The main problem i have with Brexit aside from the lack of planning is what our government, now and to come, will get upto with regards to the rights of the British people.

This nation is already an Orwellian nightmare aka a totalitarian technocracy, god knows what "They" will make of the place given free rein(or more so) to do so?

originally posted by: alldaylong
The E.U. exports £280 billion of goods to The U.K. each year. There is no way they would wish to sacrifice that.

The EU is only a single entity for import duty purposes.

The "EU" doesn't have a unified spend on what its members export to the UK. That £280bn figure is the total for all the separate EU nations who export to the UK. I.e., it's not a real budgetary figure.

And even if it were a real budgetary figure, UK exports to the various mainland EU nations account for around 15 per cent of our trade. The exports of all EU nations to the UK represent around 3 per cent of all EU trade.

It appears that the EU leadership has not changed its view that they are the controllers of who should have access to the single market ,

and the controllers of nations in that process . They are clearly a massive scam .

Because it is companies often multinationals who are enjoying that access to the single market , not the UK per se .

It is companies and traders who use those 4 freedoms , the free movement of labour , goods, services and capital .

The EU is leaving THEM desperate for certainty, while its holds the UK govt over a barrel . The traders in the UK are kind of hostages to EU power , while it threatens the UK govt

IMO we dont need the EU to guarantee any freedoms , and WHY should the literal MOVEMENT of those fundamentals to economies be made UNFREE by the EU ?

What is this ? The 4 UN-freedoms now? Can't have one freedom without the other ? Our nations companies can't trade freely otherwise ? Who DO this EU think they are ?

Give em a no-deal . Are they going to enforce costs on movements ? Then we dont accept that and charge them back.

Also if they want free movement of capital and financial services from London .. which is not moving from here well then they better start thinking about it .

We do not need European Union to continue having those.. all 4.. freedoms . We don't need a federal superstate to have a successful economy here on the Islands , end of.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The only problem is that right now this is a very very real problem, right after the vote the pound tanked, I don't think its ever actually recovered, economicaly this is going to be a disaster when we finally pull it.

Right after the vote? ...you are actually being kind to the big investors, what actually happened was...for instance, March, April of 2016, nearly £100Billion Sterling alone, left the country pre-Brexit, likely never to be seen again, the actual figure for the whole of 2016 I lost count of, and 2017 is looking..not very good at all. Lost jobs are already on the cards...BAE is pulling 1000 jobs from the UK, new investment the same, Seimens cancelled new wind farms. Car firms are looking for special deals al la the Nissan kind...probably then at some taxpayers expense, Virgin has lost around a third of its value, that'll kill a deal of home investment in rail no doubt. On top of that, London is likely to lose around 10,000 jobs in banking alone, that will also include £Billions of investment, and that hasn't happened yet, but it will, there's no doubt about that either.
The really crazy thing is, the UK is nowhere near bringing itself into the 20th century yet, never mind the 21st with all the investment that did come back from the EU. Sad!
Oh! and there is that little matter of interest rates, and Carney is telling us now that they are about to go up, quite a bit actually.

I'll take the Frankfurt special any time soon.

And if we were asked the question do we either
1 . Give up our entire nation and our nationality to a new dominant superpower to facilitate a purely economic end called free movement (as governed by )


or
2. Offer millions of Europeans resident in the UK a new 2nd nationality , and welcome them permanently or indefinitely

then answer 2 has already been decided on . And it was the sensible option . We ddnt; need to ask Barnier if we could do that either . F em . No deal is the answer

originally posted by: GeneralMayhem


And if we were asked the question do we either
1 . Give up our entire nation and our nationality to a new dominant superpower to facilitate a purely economic end called free movement (as governed by )


or
2. Offer millions of Europeans resident in the UK a new 2nd nationality , and welcome them permanently or indefinitely

then answer 2 has already been decided on . And it was the sensible option . We ddnt; need to ask Barnier if we could do that either . F em . No deal is the answer

Answer one was always the case, didn't you know that? as for the emotive, "dominant superpower" ...all members of the EU participate in the decision making...didn't you know that?

a reply to: smurfy

I totally agree with your but what find quite funny is I wrote a response to a member saying he was not going far enough in his assessment of how catastrophic this would be and then you write a even more catastrophic vision than mine.

I think we can all agree that Brexit is going to destroy our economy.

Its just a shame more can't see it.

Its interesting you talk about the job losses in London, I have a friend who is a very senior banker in London with one of the biggest funds in the world. He was saying that their plan is going to be to basically move to Dublin. Dublin apparently could turn into the New London and Brexit could have the strange effect of boosting the Irish economy because it could make a lot of sense for a lot of the big banking firms to relocate there. Its in the same existing time zone, speaks English, is in the EU, has the expertise, it isn't too far for some of their existing staff to move to and so on.

time will tell I guess.

a reply to: andy06shake

As a friend of mine who used to grace these boards frequently used to say, 'We need a full system re-boot'.

The party political system is no longer fit for purpose and we have outdated electoral and parliamentary procedures that only serve to maintain and exploit the current system.

a reply to: Freeborn

Until someone comes up with a better one, I'll stick with what we've got thanks. A few alternatives were tried around the world during the 20th Century and the results weren't encouraging.

a reply to: smurfy

You mean , that in practise and principle all _ruling parties from within the nations of the EU participate in the decision making . Ruling parties which can be over-ruled at home in their own countries via this constitutional mechanism allowing policy to be set ad hoc by an indistiict minorty shielded from democracy or scrutiny.
Being what most people don't know or wont discuss is how each and every one of those ruling parties right across Europe are being over-ruled by the necessity of belonging to an EU umbrella group . Do you know, that there is one umbrella group which have gained control of policy , do you what they call themselves ?
Do you know why that Europe looks to Munker and Jerkel , Tarnier and Busk >

Well, if the price of some cozy trade deal is the UK only being free of the EU in name, then I am all for going the WTO route.

Hell, what s wrong with everyone? you all happy being well fed slaves that you are too scared to try freedom? Grow a spine.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Thing is, so many people are so brow beaten and dare I say brainwashed that they firmly accept and believe the myth that there are no other viable options other than those that we have at present.

Is it any wonder that a system that promotes mediocrity and the continuance of the status quo that people accept the easy option and are petrified of the unknown.

Our whole society reeks of blind acceptance, compliance and the fear of anything that may be deemed radical or controversial.

I remember the passion and intensity of my youth then I look around and despair at what I see all around me.

a reply to: Freeborn

As a friend of mine who used to grace these boards frequently used to say, 'We need a full system re-boot'.

Now that I can agree with!!

a reply to: Freeborn


Got to agree with you there. When I was a kid there were huge stars that inspired us, people like Joe Strummer and Johnny Rotten, eloquent, honest parliamentarians like Tony Benn.

Now all there is are Kardashians and weasels like Nick Clegg.



Mind you, as my fave song goes. At the end of the storm, there's a golden sky, and the sweet, silver song of the lark.

Dom't be too despondent.

a reply to: Freeborn

Its fair we should listen to them as well , becuase there are sensible minded people in RL who do not normally use words like 'catastrophe' off the cuff , who are using that and similar , a sense of foreboding anyway .
There is no apparent roadmap, its fair to give them that . IMO I think it became clear there was a definite roadmap when the referendum question belay such gravity in its implied impetus , ie 'out' . It simply cannot have been Cameron's 'mistake' . And latterly there are reasons (they are becoming clearer all the time) why it wouldnt have been