Brexit - ‘No deal’ planning is well under way, says Minister

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Cheer up. It's not all that bad. Breaking the shackles of a remote, undemocratic and unaccountable union is a good thing, no?

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: fusiondoe

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Denoli
They just want our money, we don't need Europe.

# them .

Do you have any idea how much the EU bounces back into the UK's economy. All those new built houses and industrial estates that say ''In partnership with the EU' are gone, Farmers subsidies are gone. Free movement withing the EU is gone, Free health care within the EU is gone, and do you really expect the rest of the EU to bend over backwards to pass on information on terrorism to the UK after this.....Jesus wept.

Just a question, are you a labour or Lib Dem voter? I can just tell you have that ‘give me’ attitude. Do you work for the council? Or on the tube by any chance? I bet your a member of the union.

Yay... No more EU signs on housing estates
Yay... No more free movement thank god
We got by without subsidies many years ago, we will again
Oh dear looks like we will have to pay like the rest of the world does, a small sacrifice in my opinion, you can’t have it all.
Yes they will, because terrorism is often linked to their countries also, terrorism is a worldwide problem and without all intelligence services working together it will never be dealt with

What a terrible disgrace that we will have to pay for things now like the rest of the world.

Next

Pay for things like the rest of the world?, We've been paying through the nose for as long as i can remember more than the rest of the world for everything. We have some of the worst pensions in the world and for the 5th richest country in the world it is a #ing disgrace, just have a look at the retirement age for those of us who dont have a nice public sector job.

As for your union question,

Well what have the Unions ever done for us eh..Well apart from the 40 hour week, the health and safety, ppe, the legal age to start work, No kids up chimney's, 5 day week, 5/6 weeks holiday a year, maternity leave with pay, bereavement leave with pay, lunch breaks, protection from discrimination and harrassement in the work place.. etc etc...# all.

What about the constant striking years ago and the strikes now on the tube etc that stop people like myself getting to work.

What, 50k plus a year is not enough, now they only want a 4 day week... Do me a favour

The unions were a great thing ONCE, the unions now are nothing but money grabbers who hold us all to ransom because the ‘teas too cold’ and force out organisations like Uber because it’s cheaper then they are. And please don’t give me a load of tosh about ‘safety’ etc, for those of us that live in London, we know the truth.

a reply to: fusiondoe

All this fear mongering about the UK’s impending extinction if we take a no deal approach is such rubbish. EU countries such as Germany rely on exporting to us a lot more then we do importing to them. Also there is a big world outside Europe. Like I said, maybe a few years of hardship but we will be ok in the end. I am sure people forget that once upon a time we wasn’t in the EU and we functioned perfectly fine.

Please! start making that wonderful Sheffield steel again that so many of us tool lovers look for. A good set of old Marples chisels are gold to many of us. Go to just about any woodworkers forum and I'll guarantee you'll see many lamenting the loss of Sheffield tool steel.
Everything seems to be cheapass "made in China" steel now, the quality has suffered and I just won't buy them. We love the old Stanley and Record planes that, unlike modern hand planes, don't weigh so much that just picking them up is a workout, much less trying use them all day.

Crank up your factories Britain.
I can guarantee there are many of us, all over the world, who are sick of the cheap crap we've been seeing for years or tools so expensive the average hobbyist either can't afford them or has to save for a year to get them. I would by far
[ and I'm not alone ] much rather buy "Made in England" than "Made in China".

I think we the British people deserve a another vote on the final deal.

If those who support Brexit are so sure of it they should have no problem with this.

However I really do think that given how serious this is, how it will impact on the future of our country we should have a final referendum to finalise the whole thing, seems like too much of a big deal to leave to one vote. Which I think a lot of people saw as a bit of a protest vote against the establishment at the time rather than a clear Brexit vote.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I voted to leave.

The reason. The E.U. has become a monster. If it was as intended, a trading partnership, i would have voted to stay.

However, since The U.K. has decided to leave, we have seen the antics of E.U. officials and there complete attitude of totalitarianism.

I now know i made the right choice.

originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Cheer up. It's not all that bad. Breaking the shackles of a remote, undemocratic and unaccountable union is a good thing, no?

You mean the undemocratic EU for which we all hold elections for every 4 years because it is literally democratic and accountable to the voters, despite most Leave voters not understanding that the EU is a democratically elected body?

You see, this is why a lot of Remain voters feel that Leave voters don't understand the EU, y'all keep saying it's 'undemocratic and unaccountable' when actually it is democratic and accountable.

Y'all might not have ever bothered voting for your MEP, but I assure you, we elect them to represent us.


Y'all also keep saying it keeps the UK in 'shackles', without being able to provide a single example of the sort of evil 'shackle' the EU has imposed on us, apart from the things Boris Johnson completely made up.


We used to have the dirtiest beaches in Europe. The EU forced us to stop dumping raw sewage into the oceans. Our beaches suddenly got clean and healthy. Ohnoes, the evil EU!

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I voted to leave.

The reason. The E.U. has become a monster. If it was as intended, a trading partnership, i would have voted to stay.

However, since The U.K. has decided to leave, we have seen the antics of E.U. officials and there complete attitude of totalitarianism.

I now know i made the right choice.

And that is totally fine

My only argument would be that if you are so sure about Brexit being the right way forward, do you not also think that its only right that as a country we get a say in that final deal.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

All those new built houses and industrial estates that say ''In partnership with the EU' are gone,

I have yet to see any of those signs in England....one or two in Scotland and Wales but none in England - that in itself my friend speaks volumes.

Farmers subsidies are gone.

Yeah, they'll have to work for a living and we'll have to buy more of our own produce - not necessarily a bad thing.

Free movement withing the EU is gone,

So what?
Again, not necessarily a bad thing.

Free health care within the EU is gone,

Travel insurance - most of us take it out anyway when we travel abroad, doesn't really cost much.

and do you really expect the rest of the EU to bend over backwards to pass on information on terrorism to the UK after this.....

Yes I do - we are still part of NATO, we are still on the same side in the 'fight against terrorism' and we are still part of the human race.
Beside which, our intelligence services are up there with the best in the world - I suspect the rest of Europe would like us to share our intelligence with them, quid pro quo.

Jesus wept.

It seems to me that the EU are acting like spiteful spurned lovers.
And the UK's politicians and power brokers are doing everything possible to do nothing at all to facilitate Brexit.

It's a complete farce.

Like most people who voted for Brexit I'm 100% in favour of a Free Trade agreement.

I'm sick to death of being portrayed as some sort of ill informed, right wing, nationalist retard - I'm anti-EU not anti-European and I just wish someone would knock some not so common sense into the heads of all those involved in the 'negotiations' and actually do something so that we can get on with trying to make the best of things.

Oh, and for the record; I'm 100% in agreement with you about Unions - some people should do a little of historical research.
Since the Unions were screwed over the working mans lot has got worse in this country, that is a an undeniable fact.

a reply to: Freeborn

And to pick up on your point about the Unions being screwed over and the working mans lot getting worse.

One of the things that worries me a lot as a Remainer is all that EU workers rights legislation that exists, none of which the Tories have promised to maintain and protect.

They could have said no it's fine, we're keeping all this. But they've been mysteriously quiet. Which makes me think they are going to use Brexit to strip UK workers of all of their EU protections.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: audubon
OK, so the Government has completely failed to put forward any proposals at all for a Brexit deal;

On the contrary, the UK has put forward a number of proposals across a range of topic areas... These are all publicly available should you care to look... Papers

The problem is we don't actually know whet the EU want. Every UK proposal is dismissed as "not good enough" or "no quite there", but no-one actually knows what the EU want out of this. Oh, we know the EU want to extract a colossal punitive "fine" from the UK, but that's about it.

I think the EU want their cake, and they want to eat it. They may be sad to see the UK leaving, but they are not making an amicable divorce easy. In fact, the evidence is that they are just turning up at the meetings and not negotiating at all.

The EU wants to make this as painful as possible, and to an outside observer it's pretty obvious. This is an ugly divorce, and I'm glad to see the UK's leaders are planning accordingly. In the end, I think a clean break is going to have be the way this goes. The UK is going to have to simply declare that beginning as of Jan. 1st, 2018 (or whatever dates makes sense), the UK is no longer a part of the EU, and will not recognize any EU directives as having any legal weight. Goodbye.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I think we the British people deserve a another vote on the final deal.

Exactly why do the British people 'deserve' to vote again? - the mandate for Brexit was pretty clear cut.

If those who support Brexit are so sure of it they should have no problem with this.

Why?

If the result had been to remain within the EU can you honestly, hand on heart, say you would support a second referendum just to make sure?
Of course you wouldn't, so where's the difference?

However I really do think that given how serious this is, how it will impact on the future of our country we should have a final referendum to finalise the whole thing, seems like too much of a big deal to leave to one vote.

Why?
Did we have two votes back in 1975?

Which I think a lot of people saw as a bit of a protest vote against the establishment at the time rather than a clear Brexit vote.

So, you assume to think that you know what the electorate were thinking when they were voting?
That's a dangerous path you are going down my friend and is close to the dismissive arrogance displayed by all the Eurocrats and their dutiful minions.

I, like many others, voted for Brexit for one simple reason - Sovereignty.
I have no desire for political union with any other nation besides those that comprise The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
The ultimate authority has to be the legally elected Assemblies within that Union.

I wasn't misinformed, ill advised or exercising some imaginary protest vote. I expressed my Right to Self-Determination and now I want it implementing.

We have discussed and debated many topics over the years here on ATS and you are a member whose opinion I respect enormously, unfortunately I think you are way off the mark on this occasion.

a reply to: Painterz

One of the things that worries me a lot as a Remainer is all that EU workers rights legislation that exists, none of which the Tories have promised to maintain and protect.

Well let's vote them out at the next General Election!

Which makes me think they are going to use Brexit to strip UK workers of all of their EU protections.

From the moment Thatcher was elected Prime Minister the rights that our fathers and grandfathers gained for us have been systematically stripped from us.
It has nothing to do whatsoever with the EU, they didn't get us those rights, British men and women got us them.
And it is up to British men and women to take them back!

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

Hallelujah!

At last someone see's it - it's pretty simple really isn't it.

a reply to: fusiondoe

It's the future hardship for your children you should be concerned about.

A whole generation of people are going to be forced to live in abject poverty and under the totalitarian rule of Tory scum down to this Brexit fiasco.

Poor people and the working-class will be the ones that suffer the most.

God help the people of our nation because the current political establishment don't give a rats arse about anything other than profit and control.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I voted to leave.

The reason. The E.U. has become a monster. If it was as intended, a trading partnership, i would have voted to stay.

However, since The U.K. has decided to leave, we have seen the antics of E.U. officials and there complete attitude of totalitarianism.

I now know i made the right choice.

And that is totally fine

My only argument would be that if you are so sure about Brexit being the right way forward, do you not also think that its only right that as a country we get a say in that final deal.

Yes, I agree. We should keep having referendums until the remainers get their way, at which point, it should be clear that the UK has made up it's mind (even if it takes 10 attempts to get the right result) and we should honour that result.

/sarc

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I voted to leave.

The reason. The E.U. has become a monster. If it was as intended, a trading partnership, i would have voted to stay.

However, since The U.K. has decided to leave, we have seen the antics of E.U. officials and there complete attitude of totalitarianism.

I now know i made the right choice.

If you had any doubt at all, what happening in Catalonia should put that to rest.

Catalonia: we want independence from Spain!
Spain: Send in the tanks! Lock up the separatists!
EU: Whistles loudly while pointedly looking in the opposite direction.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: fusiondoe

It's the future hardship for your children you should be concerned about.

A whole generation of people are going to be forced to live in abject poverty and under the totalitarian rule of Tory scum down to this Brexit fiasco.

Poor people and the working-class will be the ones that suffer the most.

God help the people of our nation because the current political establishment don't give a rats arse about anything other than profit and control.

As much as I see your concern. It’s very easy to vote Tory out at the next GE... I wouldn’t be surprised if that doesn’t happen any way

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I voted to leave.

The reason. The E.U. has become a monster. If it was as intended, a trading partnership, i would have voted to stay.

However, since The U.K. has decided to leave, we have seen the antics of E.U. officials and there complete attitude of totalitarianism.

I now know i made the right choice.

If you had any doubt at all, what happening in Catalonia should put that to rest.

Catalonia: we want independence from Spain!
Spain: Send in the tanks! Lock up the separatists!
EU: Whistles loudly while pointedly looking in the opposite direction.

This ^ was just about to bring this up!

originally posted by: Dem0nc1eaner

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I voted to leave.

The reason. The E.U. has become a monster. If it was as intended, a trading partnership, i would have voted to stay.

However, since The U.K. has decided to leave, we have seen the antics of E.U. officials and there complete attitude of totalitarianism.

I now know i made the right choice.

And that is totally fine

My only argument would be that if you are so sure about Brexit being the right way forward, do you not also think that its only right that as a country we get a say in that final deal.

Yes, I agree. We should keep having referendums until the remainers get their way, at which point, it should be clear that the UK has made up it's mind (even if it takes 10 attempts to get the right result) and we should honour that result.

/sarc

Its been stated many times already by TM. No deal is better than a bad deal! And in my view this is the way it will go. And thats just fine!

a reply to: fusiondoe

I'm Scottish buddy in the grand scheme of things, general election wise, our vote counts for very little just down to the disproportionate population numbers really.

But it won't matter who gets in next because the damage will have been done by then as the Westminster Tory bastards responsible for this Brexit debacle are perfectly aware.

a reply to: Painterz

One of the things that worries me a lot as a Remainer is all that EU workers rights legislation that exists, none of which the Tories have promised to maintain and protect.

Worry ye not , we are protected.

“The Conservatives will guarantee all rights that workers currently enjoy as we leave the European Union,” May will say Monday while visiting a training facility in the south of the U.K., according to excerpts from her speech released early to the press. “I said I would use Brexit to extend the protections and rights that workers enjoy, and our manifesto will deliver exactly that,” she will add.

In its election manifesto, due to come out this week, the Tories will set out a range of measures such as giving workers the right to request training to prepare them for the jobs of the future and new protections for workers in the gig economy, such as those working for ride hailing and food delivery platforms, the party said in a statement.
www.politico.eu...

The EU is trying to play hardball over Brexit and seem to believe they hold all the cards , they don't and planning for a No deal is a way of showing we will walk away if we don't get a fair deal.