So now flirting or asking a girl out is sexual harassment

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I get ya, perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
Yep the direct threat was my next performance evaluation, same as any seedy old male manager would make.
The others made 'implied' threats, but with all I knew performing in bed was a necessity for keeping my job, and I quickly realised I could effectively whore myself out to my own benefit.

Best of a bad situation kind of thing.
Every female manager I had was a predator...I just played the cards I was dealt, and yep a couple almost make me sick at the thought.

originally posted by: Kali74
There's not a person ever been born that hasn't faced being disliked or rejected at least once in their life based on who they appear to be. But I find it ludicrous that there's an actual major problem of white men being discriminated against, white men hold almost all the power in the west.

Guess what? What you and the others who starred your post — either in extreme support of your views or in protest to the anger they felt for me at the time — don't understand that from MY perspective and MOST other white males' perspective, your right to make that statement without fear of being automatically shut down or judged for doing so IS the difference you currently enjoy that they do not? (Remember, at this point we are discussing people who happen to be white, not the ones in power or control).

In regards to your last sentence, I really urge you to consider what I am saying:

1) Do you know that "white males" (in the West) are all in the positions of power? Even within the USA, do you know as in of April 2017, that mostly "white males" are in power and control over others?

2) You are basically arguing that until the white majority in power becomes more diverse (which you have not proven is true yet), any form of discrimination felt by people with white skin (who are not related to, benefactors of, or even friends or in league with those men in power you referred to) have no basis to even express their views or grievances because their association with the others mentioned is so probable and established. THEN you would understand the frustration of white males. Then you would not feel their perceived "persecution" is your role to comment on when you deny others this very same right.

3) Finally, if you still think I am making a mountain out of a mole-hill after reading the above 2 points, then please answer me this: do you think it is possible, even when the USA is under a black President (as it was until recently), if the hypothetical situation was revealed that a white person who was unjustly targeted, discriminated against and jailed or murdered by order of the president purely on racial hatred grounds, would that act THEN be considered a hate crime?

If you feel after reading the 3rd point that you still maintain your original position, I would argue you have forgotten the meanings of the words "unbiased", "fair", "reasonable", "persecution" "holding all the power" among others. Either way, I do hope you take this post at least somewhat seriously.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: MotherMayEye

I get ya, perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
Yep the direct threat was my next performance evaluation, same as any seedy old male manager would make.
The others made 'implied' threats, but with all I knew performing in bed was a necessity for keeping my job, and I quickly realised I could effectively whore myself out to my own benefit.

Best of a bad situation kind of thing.
Every female manager I had was a predator...I just played the cards I was dealt, and yep a couple almost make me sick at the thought.

I feel very differently about your situation hearing more. It is the epitome of quid pro quo sexual harassment.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Oh absolutely, the females with power were the predators, I just turned a situation around to my advantage.
Choice of lose a job or shag an old woman who repulses me but could swing the balance of power was a no brainer.
I even learned the female power structure and adapted accordingly to my advantage.
Gotta think fast with cougars.

a reply to: xstealth

As long as you don't grab there crotch and can handle rejection, should it come your way, i imagine there should not be an issue.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Oh absolutely, the females with power were the predators, I just turned a situation around to my advantage.
Choice of lose a job or shag an old woman who repulses me but could swing the balance of power was a no brainer.
I even learned the female power structure and adapted accordingly to my advantage.
Gotta think fast with cougars.

so you banged her?

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: MotherMayEye


The worst thing to happen to feminism is when it was hijacked by the Democratic party...a party that has proven, again & again, that it uses and abuses.

Dems did not Hijack Feminism. Dems were the only political party that aligned with feminists when Conservatives attacked it.

That is just the facts and history...Not a single advancement in women's equality where they GOP wasn't battling it.

That said..Dems sure exploit it, but that is politics and not specific to any party.

You sound like the Democratic Party are the owners of feminist causes.

Where were they, again, when Sarah Palin was called a c*nt, diva, Caribou Barbie by Democratic voters frothing at the mouth to get every misogynistic dig in? Oh, that's right...they were there saying, "She deserves it!!!!! And her DS child is a 'potato baby' and a prop!" She wasn't even allowed to take herself seriously.

Please link me to those Democrat outlets that said the same...

While you are looking...Here are some articles by Trumps Chief Strategist Outlet..

Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy
www.breitbart.com...

The Solution To Online ‘Harassment’ Is Simple: Women Should Log Off
www.breitbart.com...

There’s No Hiring Bias Against Women In Tech, They Just Suck At Interviews
www.breitbart.com...

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
You asked me to try out your method on all kinds of people and not in any specific situation:

[Dark Ghost's previous reply start] You don't "ask" people to stop doing something because you find it hurtful, offensive or awkward. You make them regret putting you in the position to demand they stop doing what they just did the first time it happens, as soon after it happens as you can. Don't give them the benefit of being able to even think about whether they can get away with doing it again. Stand up, be strong, be assertive, make them KNOW doing it again will have bad repercussions from them.

Try it on anyone you want. Try it on the most imposing, dominant, controlling, egocentric person in your life and see what happens. I guarantee you will benefit from the results.[Dark Ghost's previous reply end]

Do you think what I said above was broad enough in scope to encompass situations even considered to be covering sexual harassment (not to mention sexual assault or rape)? It seems pretty clear (even now) I am referring to a situation that where a first point of contentious contact has been made and it has not yet been established by both parties that what was said is problematic. Even the second paragraph has not moved from that situation described before.

Your suggestion was BROAD. And that is on you. I read it in a broad sense because I thought YOU meant it broadly.

Why is it on me? Why didn't you ask for clarification when you "read it in a broad sense because you thought" that's how it was being presented? Am I expected to be able to read your mind and know exactly how YOU would take what I said?

I didn't put words in your mouth, you didn't put clear or concise words in your mouth.

I didn't say you put words in my mouth, and now you are assuming (or willingly lying) that I did not put clear or concise words out when I expressed the advice (which was not even identified by you or me as a problem at the point of conversation you are referring to).

And I sure didn't misrepresent what I "felt you were arguing."

Read this reply and then go back to the one you were referring to at the time, be honest and try to challenge your own biases.

a reply to: veracity

Of course, I wanted to keep my job.
A couple do force a little sick in my mouth now at the thought 20 odd years later.
As a tactical move though I think I made the right choice for my career at the time.
There was no choice really, so I simply embraced the situation for my best advantage.

a reply to: grainofsand

ummm...congrats I guess but that sounds like a horrible situation to be in.

unless she was hot, was she?

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Hey DG, why dont you quit taking almost every single post personally and fighting with posters on this board (it wastes space and also ours and your time) and just add to the conversation?

a reply to: veracity

Nope, two in their late 50's and visually repulsive but they held the power so I performed and took the best I could out of a bad situation.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
This actually happened to someone I worked with a few years ago.

I won't say too much, put simply the story goes like this:

There was a building I worked in with a team of engineers, and one particular guy had a little crush on a cleaner lady who worked there. So one day we were at lunch, chatting among ourselves - it was common for people to approach us and ask for advice about technical issues due to the nature of our job.

So this lady was having some issues with an electrical appliance and asked us for advice, and this particular chap was being particularly helpful due to the fact that he found this lady quite attractive. He suggested that he could go to her house and diagnose and potentially repair the faulty equipment.

The woman acted kinda sheepish, she didn't say yes but she didn't exactly say no, either. I suppose the lack of a definite 'no' lead this chap to believe that it was potentially a 'yes' so he pushed the issue again, later. He wasn't aggressive or even overly flirtatious, he simply pursued her because she didn't give a definitive answer.

Lady in question simply blushed and side-stepped the issue again. Fast forward to the following morning when the man in question didn't appear for his shift. Myself and the rest of the team were a bit concerned so we asked our manager if he'd heard anything from him and were told to forget about him, that we wouldn't be seeing him again.

Really confused we pushed the issue wanting more information, but our manager got quite angry and told us in no uncertain terms to forget about it and that he wouldn't be back. We later found out that the man was actually escorted from the premises by another manager following claims of sexual harrassment.

The lady had gone to her manager and told her that she was being harassed by the man, but she never made it clear to him that she wasn't interested. Poor guy lost his job, I met him some time after and sort of broached the subject and he was visibly upset when I mentioned it.

I dropped it but he elaborated - the woman in question had alleged that he was pursuing her and that she was creeped out by his advances. I don't think he was overly pushy or aggressive in his approach, from what we saw it was mildly flirtatious but the solution was to not only fire the guy, but escort him from the premises like some seedy rapist.

This put me off chatting to women at work on a non-professional basis. I don't flirt with women at work, I wouldn't even ask one out for a drink. There used to be a time when it was common for people to meet a partner at work, it shouldn't be an issue but you can't be too careful nowadays.

All I'll say is this - if someone is trying to flirt with you or chat you up, be honest with them. Don't be rude or nasty, but if you're not interested then make it clear. Don't act all childish, blushing with embarassment, then go behind the poor chap/lady's back and cause a fuss, there's no need for it.

People used to do that - get to know people at work and often find a partner but the world has changed, everyone wants to claim victimhood. Scary times.

When I was a young first officer I saw a Captain who I was flying with use the cabin call button and ask the first class flight attendant for a glass of water.. 20 minutes later (in a 3 hour flight) still no water and absolutely nothing for the cockpit to drink or eat (about two hours into the flight total) the Captain finally got pissed and opened the cockpit door and in a rather loud voice told the female flight attendant he wanted the water now not after we land..!

She seemed very put off and said she was in her first class service...which was a load of crap she was sitting on he flight attendant jump seat.... Anyway, after landing and return to home base within a week the Captain had a sexual harassment suit filed with the company and the EEOC ...

Since I was present I got called in and had to write a report of what I had observed... The only thing that probably saved the Captain was this was the 4th time at our company she had accused a crew member of such an act... She was later fired when a review of her accusations of other crew members were reviewed in total.. She had worked for the company less than 2 years...... IMO good riddance and I hope her and Sara are happy ever after..

originally posted by: veracity
ummm...congrats I guess but that sounds like a horrible situation to be in.

unless she was hot, was she?

By asking if his boss was hot or not and making that factor the sole determiner of whether the situation was "horrible" or not for the member describing it, shows you STILL have a very biased and unhealthy view on this topic, which might actually be beyond your ability to recover from. Feel free to continue destroying your credibility, but don't play the victim when you are called out on it by others or when others stop taking anything you say on this topic seriously or worthy of consideration.

originally posted by: Taggart

originally posted by: xstealth
I feel bad for you single guys.

If you ask a girl out or flirt with one you can lose your job over it, ask Bill O'Reily.

Now Sean Hannity is being accused.

Debbie Schlussel said the married primetime anchor invited her back to his hotel in Detroit after the pair met at a book signing. After the conservative commentator turned down the father-of-two's advances, she claims she wasn't invited back on his show. Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

So the direction this is going you guys will be sued for catcalling or flirting with a woman.

I'm not going to comment on the ethics of a married man flirting with a girl since this is unproven, I want to point out the direction these allegations are going.

In my opinion sexual harassment should only be recognized in extreme cases, not when a man tries to pick you up. That's what men do. (not me, im married faithfully (in case my wife is reading)(i'm being honest though))

Workplace is a place to work, not flirt and pull women.
It's been like that in a lot of workplaces since at least the 90's.
This isn't new, I'm sure it's been like that in a corporation like FOX for at least that long too.
Employers also try stop that practice so if the two employees fall out it doesn't carry on in to the workplace.

Nonsense.
Many couples have met through work.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: MotherMayEye


The worst thing to happen to feminism is when it was hijacked by the Democratic party...a party that has proven, again & again, that it uses and abuses.

Dems did not Hijack Feminism. Dems were the only political party that aligned with feminists when Conservatives attacked it.

That is just the facts and history...Not a single advancement in women's equality where they GOP wasn't battling it.

That said..Dems sure exploit it, but that is politics and not specific to any party.

You sound like the Democratic Party are the owners of feminist causes.

Where were they, again, when Sarah Palin was called a c*nt, diva, Caribou Barbie by Democratic voters frothing at the mouth to get every misogynistic dig in? Oh, that's right...they were there saying, "She deserves it!!!!! And her DS child is a 'potato baby' and a prop!" She wasn't even allowed to take herself seriously.

Please link me to those Democrat outlets that said the same...

While you are looking...Here are some articles by Trumps Chief Strategist Outlet..

Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy
www.breitbart.com...

The Solution To Online ‘Harassment’ Is Simple: Women Should Log Off
www.breitbart.com...

There’s No Hiring Bias Against Women In Tech, They Just Suck At Interviews
www.breitbart.com...

I am not here to defend Trump or Breitbart. When have I ever, Indigo? When? I bet if you dig through my past comments, you'll even find me being very critical of both.

And I am not bound by the partisan deflection laws that members/voters of the Democratic and Republican parties are held hostage by.

Self-professed members of the Democratic party were utterly misogynistic about Hillary, Sarah Palin, AND cruel to Trig Palin, in 2008 -- a very vocal amount! If the party had any issue with it, they would have decried it and done all they could to weed that out of their party membership. But they did not. I was a member of that party, back then. I left the party, back then, for that very reason. AND I DIDN'T RUN INTO THE ARMS OF THE GOP! I WENT INDEPENDENT.

I am sure I could dredge up links to plenty of it, some are long gone...but you know as well as I do that it was severe and pervasive.

I don't care that the party leaders sat in silence while member-surrogates did the dirty work.

It's the same membership that is now pretending to give a sh*t about feminism. That same membership is GUILTY of being utter misogynistic pigs to Sarah Palin (and Hillary, too, btw). That is why the party sucks. It's members are partisan above all else and feminists when convenient...in a broad and very real way.

a reply to: UKTruth

Agreed.
Just coerced sex through seniority of status in the organisation is the problem.
Male or female bosses, too often people look at it as a solely male crime.
I've seen and experienced equal issues with female line managers.
We just don't admit women can be as exploitative as men.

originally posted by: veracity
Hey DG, why dont you quit taking almost every single post personally and fighting with posters on this board (it wastes space and also ours and your time) and just add to the conversation?

Pointing out the absurdity of the position of yourself and those of a similar mindset when it comes to this topic, does not mean or show I am taking every post personally. I'm sure ATS admins and everything else reading is grateful for your suggestion to urge me to post less frequently on this topic, but that doesn't mean I am fighting with "other" posters on this board.

I have repeatedly added to the conversation in other threads to do with the topic. The response is ALWAYS the same because people like you REFUSE to change their minds (not agree with me, but change their OWN warped thinking on this topic). How can ANY progress be made before the people with the actual problem recognise their own biases and inability to entertain other views which might challenge their current mindset on this topic?

So either I shut up and don't participate AT ALL and allow others to continue to peddle their BS which is actually making gender relations worse, OR I can try reason in order to find a compromise. If you mind my participation in this thread annoying or bothersome, go report me and see what happens. Why not collude with all your feminist buddies to do a mass report so that the spotlight is REALLY on me? That way if nothing happens and your request is denied, you can be assured you did at least try to prevent my further participation from this thread.

Since my participation with you in this thread ALONE (from when I first replied to you, up to this very last reply of yours) has led me to believe terrible things about your character and purpose for being here, I WILL continue to participate in this thread but will REFRAIN from talking with YOU any further.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Ok, suffice it to say I was responding to what I believed you had meant. I didn't know I was incorrect in my interpretation and didn't think I needed to ask for clarification. BTW, I am the one who posted that Debbie Schlussel said her claims did not amount to sexual harassment in any legal sense.

Got it?

There is no reason to continue, now, so drop it!!!

(Three exclamation points should end this.)

originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: xstealth
So now flirting or asking a girl out is sexual harassment

That is irrational.
Under certain conditions, certain circumstances, it has ALWAYS been sexual harassment!
Like our Crotch-grabber in Chief!
When one is in a position of power, like the various old white men accused (with aps to Bill Cosby, but there's lots more powerful whites in the good old boys club), and they use that intimidating power to get away with acting like a thugs...

Versus going up to any woman in public, not job related, and politely asking her out.. you know, 'manners'?

Are you still going to defend the pu$$$y grabbers, or do you understand the difference?

One problem is the number of Women who appreciate the attention from the wealthy and powerful.

The first thing that came to mind upon reading your comment is that there are 'children' that are precocious and flirty.
The adult is supposed to know better and not pursue the child's flirtations.
While in a position of 'power' (obviously very attractive to many women), a 'man' ('mensch') has 'ethics' preventing him from 'using and abusing' others.
A healthy, sane man...
Unfortunately, generally, healthy, sane men do not need to be wealthy and 'powerful'.
Personal relationships are often an ugly little game of who is using who for what.
And when the cops are called, it is the man who is dragged away!

In many cases, they pursue the guy but they can still sue over "unwanted" attention regardless of whether THEy flirt with him or lead him on.

Two simple words, meaning so much; 'unwanted attention'. A very nebulous and dangerous concept unless exactly, clearly defined!

Every case is going to be different, but in my opinion saying adults especially young attractive Men and Women working together all day and saying there will not be or can't romance develop is silly.

One cannot legislate against Nature!
Putting people together for lengthy times naturally will involve their humanity and nature.
Rules/laws can limit certain overt behaviors, as needed, but they cannot interfere when that certain 'chemistry' is perceived.
If everyone were 'healthy', we would be treating each other in/with Love!
All forms of health; mental, emotional, physical, spiritual... are based on the ability to Love, unconditionally.
From Love is 'ethics';
"Don't do to others what you don't want done to you!"
Thus preventing 'use and abuse', appearing like 'respect', like 'honor'.
Laws are for those with no ethics!
An ethical person has an internal censor of his behavior, not having to hump every available leg!