Who is Hiram Abiff?

a reply to: Bedlam


The Bible is hardly reliable as history and for truth neither are you so far.

Of course I won't hold it against you for thinking otherwise.

But it's far from reliable. Solomon never existed and neither did the 12 tribes or Jacob or any of his sons.

The Bible is a self fulfilling book. Meaning it's not hard to write pseudo history and backdate it to look like true history.

At all, and I Bible does it again and again.

a reply to: Malocchio

Missed it twice. You seem to be an extremely concrete thinker.

You are complaining about Hiram Abiff's lack of historical rigor:

"Wondering who he "was"...

None of the little play/ritual is in the Bible and neither is Hiram Abiff.

A myth with no historical value.

And that Hiram Abiff isn't a real Biblical character...

The Bible is hardly reliable as history...

So, I told you. You still don't get it. Here. Hiram Abiff in the ritual is as literally true as the Good Samaritan, and for the same purpose.

a reply to: Bedlam

Could those robbers and thieves be gypos? damnit!!!

a reply to: Bedlam

Aww.

I feel bad I must have made you feel bad because you're trying to insult me.

I have armadillo tough skin chief. Try that on someone it will work on, not me.

Your smugness just makes you look immature and childish so by all means:

Please keep it coming.

originally posted by: Bedlam
a reply to: Malocchio

Missed it twice.

You seem to be an extremely concrete thinker.

You are complaining about Hiram Abiff's lack of historical rigor:

"Wondering who he "was"...

None of the little play/ritual is in the Bible and neither is Hiram Abiff.

A myth with no historical value.

And that Hiram Abiff isn't a real Biblical character...

The Bible is hardly reliable as history...

So, I told you. You still don't get it. Here. Hiram Abiff in the ritual is as literally true as the Good Samaritan, and for the same purpose.

Neither are history buddy.

Do you know the difference between myth history?

originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Bedlam

Could those robbers and thieves be gypos? damnit!!!

No, it's a LIE! A LIE!!! There WASN'T a Good Samaritan! Jesus was a LIAR! A LIAR!!

(facepalm)

Carefully crafted parables are very useful for teaching metatruths. If you can insert a nice way of thinking about things into someone's emotional judgement, then it's way more efficient than providing them endless lists of facts that are contextually ambiguous.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Bedlam

Could those robbers and thieves be gypos? damnit!!!

No, it's a LIE! A LIE!!! There WASN'T a Good Samaritan! Jesus was a LIAR! A LIAR!!

(facepalm)

Carefully crafted parables are very useful for teaching metatruths. If you can insert a nice way of thinking about things into someone's emotional judgement, then it's way more efficient than providing them endless lists of facts that are contextually ambiguous.

Are you OK?

I am concerned about you.

originally posted by: Malocchio
Do you know the difference between myth history?

What is the purpose of mythos in a culture?

a reply to: Bedlam

I know the value of a good allegory and how to interpret them quite well.

I don't however try and make history out of parables, allegory and myth.

Because that is for fools.

originally posted by: Malocchio
Are you OK?

I am concerned about you.

Immune to sarcasm and truth both. Que lastima!

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Malocchio
Do you know the difference between myth history?

What is the purpose of mythos in a culture?

Why don't you enlighten us?


Sometimes it is to control the populace.

Others are for group pride.

Some are lies to cover up atrocities and the crimes of "powerful" people.

Hardly ever does it lead to anything productive and lots of times they get people killed.

originally posted by: Malocchio
I don't however try and make history out of parables, allegory and myth.

It's all you've been doing since the first post.

You're taking it as literal history, and bitching about it not being.

It's. A. Parable. A metatruth. A way of looking at things.

originally posted by: Malocchio

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Malocchio
Do you know the difference between myth history?

What is the purpose of mythos in a culture?

Why don't you enlighten us?

Your inability to grasp this point is why you're missing everything in your OP.

Don't look at it as being historic. What does the story tell you? What's it's purpose? Although grant you, outside the actual ritual and the explanations you get, it's probably harder to understand.

a reply to: Bedlam

Have a good day chief.

I am going to go read a book. Find a new percieved enemy to fail at agitating.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Malocchio
I don't however try and make history out of parables, allegory and myth.

It's all you've been doing since the first post.

Are you hallucinating?

That didn't happen.

You're taking it as literal history, and bitching about it not being.

It's. A. Parable. A metatruth. A way of looking at things.

originally posted by: Malocchio
Hardly ever does it lead to anything productive and lots of times they get people killed.

Yes, the deadly story of the Good Samaritan.

a reply to: Malocchio

Right my take on it is that patently silly cult's that actually serve not so silly purposed do not always have the answer, you do not need a blindfold to prove that you have not seen all or to be lain in a coffin to undergo a fake resurrection in order to be raised again and indeed Jesus himself spoke very strongly against such cult's in his word's about they whom claim to be jew's but are not and are the synagogue of satan (Vile - False - Accuser, Deciever and father of lies).

Hiram Abiff is by some claimed to be a secret name for the Widow's Son a blasphemous title given to the Virgin Miriam the Mother or Yeshua and also a denial of the Real father or Yeshua the Holy Ghost (the Stone the Builders Rejected - note this does not mean all free mason or other related group's and not all mason's are cult member's but in any group there are extremist's - abusing US taxpayer money to carry out masonic ceremonies on the moon during the Apollo mission, hiding ceremonial meaning in NASA regalia, Hiding the truth to make it there personal cult secret's are some of those Extremist's questionable and patently anti christian action's - the truth shall set you free so who are they trying to bind? and why do they not want you to be free or know the truth?).
By others it is simply a character both potentially based on a real personage from Old Testament time's and on an allegorical tale created to enshrine there ideal's (not all of which are bad by any estimate and indeed many are very laudable).

Do not take my meaning to be an attack upon masonry though as it is merely my opinion and in a free speech environment all opinion's can be changed if a compelling case for the opposite side is posited.

Still there is much you can freely find on the net including from some far more open and therefore probably honest masonic source's, there is little a secret society as well known as the mason's can still keep secret though sect's within sect's and cult's within cult's etc.
www.masonicdictionary.com...
www.masonicworld.com...

And for God's sake think, do not knock three time's unless you know what you are getting into.

a reply to: Malocchio

well, maybe i will read it! it's possible in a role or title as King, he had many acting and writing or keeping stories on his behalf and that is where the possibility between myth and truth collide...storytelling in both Islam and Judiasm as far as i have been told is a time honored tradition in many families...written or just spoken, the truth is in the teachings, IMHO...what we learn concerning actions as human beings in accordance to the word of God...OT/NT and other works, depending on ones faith...not to stray to far off topic! as the focus is Hiram Abi and i will study again this topic, sorry and thank you...
will read OP again...

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Malocchio

Right my take on it is that patently silly cult's that actually serve not so silly purposed do not always have the answer, you do not need a blindfold to prove that you have not seen all or to be lain in a coffin to undergo a fake resurrection in order to be raised again and indeed Jesus himself spoke very strongly against such cult's in his word's about they whom claim to be jew's but are not and are the synagogue of satan (Vile - False - Accuser, Deciever and father of lies).

Hiram Abiff is by some claimed to be a secret name for the Widow's Son a blasphemous title given to the Virgin Miriam the Mother or Yeshua and also a denial of the Real father or Yeshua the Holy Ghost (the Stone the Builders Rejected - note this does not mean all free mason or other related group's and not all mason's are cult member's but in any group there are extremist's - abusing US taxpayer money to carry out masonic ceremonies on the moon during the Apollo mission, hiding ceremonial meaning in NASA regalia, Hiding the truth to make it there personal cult secret's are some of those Extremist's questionable and patently anti christian action's - the truth shall set you free so who are they trying to bind? and why do they not want you to be free or know the truth?).
By others it is simply a character both potentially based on a real personage from Old Testament time's and on an allegorical tale created to enshrine there ideal's (not all of which are bad by any estimate and indeed many are very laudable).

Do not take my meaning to be an attack upon masonry though as it is merely my opinion and in a free speech environment all opinion's can be changed if a compelling case for the opposite side is posited.

Still there is much you can freely find on the net including from some far more open and therefore probably honest masonic source's, there is little a secret society as well known as the mason's can still keep secret though sect's within sect's and cult's within cult's etc.
www.masonicdictionary.com...
www.masonicworld.com...

And for God's sake think, do not knock three time's unless you know what you are getting into.

I have already knocked but only once.

The Spirit answered.

And I never had to dress up and do a silly ritual where I have to be sworn to secrecy on pain of death.

My free speech opinion is Mason's are as cult indoctrinated as Scientologists and Mormons.

Not something I want a part of. I really only want to share my theory that the fictitious Hiram Abiff is in the Bible Hammurabi (obvious, no?) and see if anyone else had noticed this... including Masons.

I have had people say it's just a myth and that it's historically accurate, maybe even from the same person though I can't be certain.

Grown men dressing up playing whorshipful Master and King Schlomo?

Not for me.

a reply to: Malocchio

Absolutely correct but remember when among a nest of vipers be as cunning as a viper but as harmless as a dove.