Who is Hiram Abiff?

a reply to: Malocchio

I believe stories has a message

originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Malocchio

I believe stories has a message

Me too. I am a staunch allegorist.

I would not enjoy the stories if I interpreted them as historical and reality.

And I love finding hidden meaning where others fail to see them.

a reply to: peppycat

www.christian-restoration.com...

Do Master Masons really believe in Resurrection ?
not just some metaphor because they don't really understand it
if Hiram was physically Resurrected
does it take Divinity away from Christs Resurrection ?
if Resurrection can be achieved by all and it can

Hiram Abiff has been raised from the dead

who placed within the Temple a stone bearing the Name of God.

What Hiram wouldn't give up ?

Temple a stone bearing the Name of God.

the little things
what stone ?
shiny black ?

Hiram Abiff has been raised from the dead. However, he soon leaves the legend, for he has been ushered into a more glorious existence.

so really not dead ?
Hsien ?

Solomon rasing the dead
a little powder
a little prayer

is this whole thing about a mineral ?

originally posted by: kibric
if Hiram was physically Resurrected

He was not. In the Master Mason degree he is dead and is not resurrected. The degree is about fidelity and not about the physical resurrection of anyone.

a reply to: kibric

Ressurection is a metaphor in the manner of born again (the ''virgin birth").

One thing masons aren't is uneducated.

They may believe in ressurection, but in the true meaning and not the forced literal one.

I believe they are born anew once the blindfold is removed.

originally posted by: Malocchio


One thing masons aren't is uneducated.

originally posted by: Malocchio


I know admittedly very little about Freemasonry

Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

A second winner! WHodathunkit.

a reply to: kibric

i gather the resurrection or cycle of death into life, (having pagan roots)?, is a reacurring story and i wonder how many ties it has into reincarnation stories from the Eastern religions of Asia/India..
i don't have a clue what Masons believe...as far as i know they are carpenter peeps that study esoteric stuff...
Nothing takes away the Divinity of Christ on the cross , his death and resurrection...IMHO.
Suffering and then life after death into a better existance is very ancient...so no, not dead...
something many wish for (abteer stae of existing/being)...unless you find joy in the present moment as is..instead of believing that suffering is permanent...(many beliefs on this concerning the mind)
the stone could of been tekitite, black tourmaline, jet, obsidian...who knows?
a mineral may have been used in purification of temple ...i have no clue...and don't think the story is about a mineral...
the powder could have been asofotedia for all i know or eggshell...?

a reply to: network dude

So...

You think because I know little about Masonry that I can't be aware that they are educated men?

Who is the ''winner"?

a reply to: tikbalang

Self proclaimed? No I earn a good salary as one. Like I said, if you follow the hints I've dropped in our conversations, you'd know exactly who I am My Linked in would show where I work, and have worked. You are not smart enough however to find me.

You attack any mystery religion (say Masons in this thread) but can't cope with your revealed religion being questioned.

So the fact remains, do you understand what an allegory is?

a reply to: Noinden

I dont care who you are, why do you think i would care about who you are when you present stories?
And the worst part, not even your own stories.. I mentioned before that you "believe" to much... But cant even get out of the rabbit hole..

a reply to: tikbalang

I don't think you understand how the human mind works neighbor. These stories (allegories) are how humanity tends to learn. The passing on of information via these stories is an age old tool. You are an admitted Christian, and if you think you are not believing a story, you are clearly mistaken. The funny thing here, is that the majority of Masons, are fellow Christians.

You make a bunch of accusations about people, then can't back them up. Do you think these lies of yours are anything but stories?

a reply to: Noinden

Top of page number 6

a reply to: Malocchio I believe stories has a message

You aint doing anything of it, you are just repeating a story..

There are allegories in, art, symbols, songs, music, architecture, night time stories, mythologies even history ... But all you can achieve to do is say;" Check out my prophecy!"

Which lies? You have to present the facts.. You make claims.. I accused you of being a con-artist who walks around as a "false prophet"

a reply to: tikbalang

That post of yours contradicts every post where you say "those are just stories". You have done that line every other post, when you can't actually gain any traction through trolling me.

Now as to the rest.

(i) I posted the prophesy of An Morrigan, as an example of something in a thread on Druids. The Tuatha de Dannan, are important to a portion of the Celtic Speaking people. QED the fact you don't understand why, is why you will not understand those questions you asked, when they are answered to you.
(ii) I did not present the prophesy in any way shape or form, as mine, and informed you, that in that mythic cycle it had been fulfilled. You miss again the allegory inside that story.
(iii) You have repeatedly posted lies about me, my intentions, masons, Druids, pagans, etc. You have been challenged, not just by me.
(iv) You have not demonstrated knowledge in any area, rather when someone knowledgeable posts, you call them liars, cult leaders, etc. It is no wonder you have been banned from ATS numerous times. It is as if you only wish to troll, rather than deny ignorance.
(v) I've repeatedly posted information as hyperlinks in replies to you. It is not my fault you can't click on them, or refuse to do so.

So I return to the fact, you can't understand the allegory of Hiram Abiff and thus by extension the Masons. How is that list of 33rd degree Masons going? You can't understand what a 3rd degree one learns, I dread to think what you would make of senior members.

a reply to: Noinden

I have quite a few 33rd degree masons, thank you! Have no interest in below 33rd degree members..

The Allegory of Hiram? Do share since it seems you know it, does it include your prophecy?
No, i understand the allegory of the cycle, i even know how to make it visible to the naked eye.. Do you, or do you just copy it since you seem to have a real thing for repeating others work? I dont care for stories, im not sure if that information got out of my 55 posts about i dont care for stories?

a reply to: tikbalang

Do you understand how masonry works, by that very statement. You don't care about stories, or facts. This is abundantly clear.

When you understand the egalitarian nature of the Masons, come back to me

a reply to: Noinden

Ill quote a freemason;" Without all the Hoohaaa ! "

Since you didnt know the answer to my questions, it means you dont know.. But you would like to think you knew.. But you dont, so you repeat a prophecy or i see it as a story to make it seem credible..

In the end, you dont know..

a reply to: tikbalang

No it means, I am not going to answer you. there is a difference. I am not at your beck and call. When you answer the questions I and others have posed you, to confirm you know your arse from your elbows (on many subjects). Then we talk

Until then, you simply prove to many of us, you are not here, to deny ignorance, but rather perpetuate it.

a reply to: Noinden

wow, just wow.. Good luck with that rhetoric

Your a tragic individual Dr. Druid

a reply to: tikbalang

Once more you dodge the opportunity to show you are a knowledgeable individual. You've demonstrated thus far that you are clueless (Ignorant) in:

Masons (no matter the degree)
Sigils
The history of the Celtic People
Paganism (old and new)
Global Warming

Surely you are actually able to show knowledge in one or two areas?

Come now, you claim you know about the allegory of Hiram Abiff. Show that you are not telling lies

a reply to: Noinden
Here is Hiram Abiff for you Wikipedia
Somehow you fail to realize the world does not have the same interest as you, The first lodge adopted Arthurian tales, ill link it for you.. King Arthur..

Do i know a thing or two about masons, i do..
Sigils and seals.. also i do..
History of Celtic People... Couldnt give a s### and why do you as a NZ?
Paganism ... ?? I live in Scandinavia..In case you missed that part..


Hope you find what you are searching for Druid...