Who is Hiram Abiff?

a reply to: Malocchio

Im gonna be honest, i did the journey on my own, do i know everything? No, My purpose for doing this was my own, i tried to ask masons several times about things and realized most of them did not know more than i did.. If you ask them for story, they will most likely give you one..

I took me almost a decade, and the hours put in, is insane.. But i came to the center of things.. Its the journey, not the destination and most of my finds are made by mistake, tragic enough.

If you ask a mason;" how?" He will explain. Ask him;" why?" and he is blind in faith like most people are.. Most of the things they do, i dont understand, but the thing is, we are primates being taught to be humans..

I had a reason for my journey, i wanted to understand my heritage cause it was wiped out.. Did i find it, yes i did..
The thousands of myths, the thousands of stories, the numerous mentors, discussions, books became compiled with a single finding..

Everyone of us, what we achieve in life, can be summed up on a single page at the end of it.. If the stories makes you believe you wrote a book, and makes you human, then the trade of replacing knowledge to become human is fair.. Their rituals are maybe complicated and weird, but easily explained by a human standpoint..

I just wanted to tell you the story about my journey before you take yours.. Cause its not something you will find in a book..

Check out this book. en.wikipedia.org... It tells the entire story of who the freemasons are and how they got started. It even explains in detail what all the secret rituals mean, and it's written by 2 33rd degree master masons. It also explains in detail who Hiram Abiff was and why he is important to free masonry.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Malocchio

Absolutely correct but remember when among a nest of vipers be as cunning as a viper but as harmless as a dove.

I read somewhere that passage could also translate;

" Be more wise than the Serpent and innocent as a dove."

It only slightly alters the sentence but changes the meaning."

I just thought you might find that interesting, not trying to one up yoy or anything.

a reply to: tikbalang

Once again you make all sorts of claims with out proof. I assume you expect us to go with blind faith in your supposed ability and knowledge? Do you not see the intellectual dishonesty in that?

a reply to: Malocchio

So "silly names" are a reason to mock? I am guessing the phrase "allegory" has no meaning to you?

a reply to: tikbalang

the things we teach and learn in freemasonry aren't anything you can't find elsewhere. The lessons come straight out of the Bible, with some added interpretation. What freemasonry offers is a different way to get the message to the man. If you found your answers, that's super. I hope everyone can learn from you and find things on their own. In fact, that's one of the lessons we learn, that you have to first want to look for answers in order to fully appreciate them.

If you really want to feel superior as you seem to, you can create your own order and proclaim yourself to be a 34th degree. Then you would be way above any mason in rank. Good luck with all that.

a reply to: Malocchio
Here's some info on Hiram Abiff: www.masonicdictionary.com...

Hiram Abiff and Hammurabi are two different characters.

Do they realize that Solomon is a play on Shalman-ezer and the god Shalmanu?

That's your theory to have.

a reply to: chr0naut
Our central myth surrounds the building of King Solomon's Temple, but correct, the earliest known records of Freemasonry come from England and then spread to Europe. Our rituals are based on the central myth, but it is not meant to be taken literally. It's meant to be used as an allegory and express lessons to the candidates and members.

a reply to: chr0naut
Burial Site of King Hiram: www.travelingtemplar.com/2013/10/burial-site-of-king-hiram.html

a reply to: Malocchio
Concerning the term “myth”, it is a popular notion that myth equates fiction. In reality, myths can be both fiction and non-fiction, but the origin of the use of myth is in oral traditions, which is the telling of stories and legends were passed down through the generations via storytellers. Written myths often came about centuries after an oral myth originated. The validity aside, oral myths did not stay consistent, but were used to help explain an event or philosophy to a largely illiterate people. To contrast rituals and myths, scholars like Edward Tylor, argues that ritual stems from and is secondary to myth; that myths give birth to rituals.

a reply to: LABTECH767
Freemasonry isn't a cult: www.abovetopsecret.com...

You don't go through a "fake resurrection" in Freemasonry.

Hiram Abiff is found in the Bible, and it is not used in the denial of anything. Freemasonry is not contrary nor against Christianity. Nor is there some "extremist Masonic group" doing all of that nonsense.

a reply to: Malocchio
Our rituals are not silly. Rituals are inherent to human nature. There are a number of categories of rituals such as social rituals, military rituals, celebratory rituals, worship rituals, funerary rituals, bardic rituals, and initiatic rituals. Freemasonry is filled with a variety of rituals, but the most notable is the initiatic or initiation rituals. Rituals remind us of what is important as well as providing a sense of stability and continuity in our lives; it educates us in the values of an organization, allows for knowledge to be passed from generation to generation unchanged, and binds the members together, not just in the Lodge, but across time and space. Masonic rituals attempt to impart values and lessons through symbolism

You take an obligation to keep your word, but you are never threatened with death. The penalties of our obligations are symbolic, figurative. If a Mason were to break his Obligation a trial would be convened and if found guilty he would be reprimanded, suspended, or expelled.

In regards to your cult comment, please see the link above or this one: www.travelingtemplar.com...

FYI, Worshipful is an Old English word meaning "venerable, respectful."

a reply to: scraedtosleep
It should be noted here that most anti-Masons and non-Masons hold a misguided belief at what constitutes authority in Freemasonry. Since the 18th century, many Masons have published works concerning Freemasonry, writing on various theories and subjects within Freemasonry. Anti-Masons would have others believe that everything a Mason writes is inherently accepted by all of Freemasonry. The problem here is that not everything written by a Mason has been factual, but as Freemasonry is a society dedicated to knowledge and free thought, Grand Lodges have not interfered with what an individual Mason writes. A Grand Lodge is the only entity within Freemasonry that has authority to speak on the symbols, rituals, history, and so on. Without receiving an endorsement from a Grand Lodge, a Masonic author is merely giving his opinion, he does not speak for all Freemasonry.

Also in regards to Knight and Lomas, they take a great deal of liberty with their theories and revising history.

The following is from Arturo de Hoyos, one of those 33rds everyone is obsessed with, as well as Grand Archivist and Grand Historian of the Supreme Council and Grand Archivist of the Grand College of Rites.

Masonic Sense and Non-Sense

This is a topic about which I’ve written before, but it cannot be overemphasized. The ‘mysterious origins’ and vast symbols of Freemasonry lend themselves to speculation, some valuable, most not so much. Some embrace the notion that the mere popularity of a Masonic author somehow makes him a scholar. Similarly, there’s a notion that Masonic authors who claim to offer ‘special insights’ into the meaning and/or purposes of Masonry, or who purport to reveal hidden traditions must be scholars. Finally there is a belief that any academic credentials legitimize Masonic ideas and/or publications. All these notions are mistaken.

Consider the book “The Hiram Key.” Its clever (but mistaken) theory was that the Hiramic legend was based on the disputed assassination of the ancient Egyptian Pharaoh Seqenenre Tao II. The authors used the language of the post-1813 English Masonic ritual to assert that the wounds on the mummy were accounted for in Masonic legends. They claimed the Hiram legend was an ancient Egyptian ‘oral tradition’ that passed down the millennia until it became part of Freemasonry, when it was converted into our present tradition (and in so doing so they ignored the old Noachite legend, which was the antecedent of the Hiramic legend).

Not only did the wounds not match up correctly, but their story actually contradicts the earliest Masonic rituals (such as Prichard’s “Masonry Dissected,” 1730), which would have represented an earlier -- and thus more accurate -- version of this so-called ‘oral tradition.’ But perhaps the most startling aspect of their theory is their claim that they somehow discovered an ancient legend (for which they never offer *any proof*), and which somehow eludes all professional Egyptologists worldwide. To date, 20 years after their book was written, not a single trained Egyptologist has embraced their theory. There’s absolutely zero evidence it is correct, and a mountain of evidence that it is wrong.

What can we learn from this? If you read something that offers the novel or sensational, it must fall to the Sagan standard: “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”

a reply to: KSigMason

I thought you guys taught your goons to behave?

a reply to: network dude

So you mean that everything in our world started existing from 1717? Or is the rituals you mean?
The New testament was written in the 4th century, the KJV much much later..
Anyone can learn it, just observe.. You dont need stories or rituals for it..

Is your "creator" an image in your head? With a story to it?

a reply to: Noinden

What i said, its your journey.. If it takes 25 years, and you still have not reached the goal.. I think you probably should let it go and enjoy the years you have left..

a reply to: tikbalang

See you are the one saying I have not reached the goal, based on no actual knowledge. Not me. You make baseless claims. You claim to have walked your own path, yet it appears to be a path based off of the dreams of Saul.

You clearly don't understand what the "mysteries" the Masons teach are about.

a reply to: Noinden

Well i did, i asked you to present anything but a story, or a reference to it.. You presented in other threads a poem about 6 or 7 times... I can quote the bible.. But its a story if i dont have a reference..

So i believe, i emphasize on the word i, you are part of a social club, like the boy scouts.. Nature is your thing..

Edit: Rituals? Its just hoohaaa, secrets.. Roslyn chapel is a great start..

a reply to: tikbalang
Have my goons been misbehavin'?!

a reply to: KSigMason

They often do, you need a leash..

a reply to: Noinden

The great thing about about journeying to the center of the earth.. You can start writing a tale without mishaps, without the subjective narrative from a walking talking primate.. Its universal, it has no subjective "truth" its just the scenery that changes..

a reply to: tikbalang

Lad, I think you do not understand Mystery based spirituality very well.

The Masons is a mystery path.
Paganism is a Mystery path.

You live in a revealed religion.

The difference is one teaches you to think for yourself (that would be Mystery religions) and the other tells you what to think (that would be your revealed religion).

If you followed any of the links, you would have learned more. If you had read any of the books, you would have leared more.

It is also clear you don't understand the Masons, the various pagan paths very well.

You came into ATS with your new persona (and you admit to having been removed from here before), demanding a list of all the 33rd degree masons. As if you were owed that.

You demanded me to explain my esoteric knowledge to you. As if you were owed that.

You demanded that I explain my spiritual path. As if you were owed that.

No one owes you a thing. You are in ATS under the law of *ghosti. You agreed to the terms and services when you signed up, each time you signed up You might wonder why you are removed. Perhaps you know why you are.

None the less, "Nature is your thing". Is a sign of ignorance. Just as the various demands you make of Masons, and others are.

Here is some more knowledge for you I hope your Gaulish is good

Ueuone drucorigin
Auios auiettos, auios auiei
Mantrat-io ulatin
Auios auiettos, auios auiei

Doaxte in bretannoi rigion
Auios auiettos, auios auiei
Belorigos argantios

Comanxte mercin rigos
Auios auiettos, auios auiei
Siraxta gabesse

Sin cecantont uidlui
Tre panpe aisson

a reply to: tikbalang

I think you will find all primates walk to some extent. Mind you you seem to think you are part equine. I wonder which end you are sometimes

There is no "universal" truth. IF you are certain. Illustrate it. You have not illustrated anything in any of your threads.

Also if you think a decade is all the time to spend on a life journey, then you are in for a shock the older you get.

a reply to: Noinden

Your the portrayed Dr. Druid not I, we live a short life, then we die.. Thats the end..

For you and me, this is the universal truth..

Wikipedia - Golden Ratio

The source to this, portrayed in buddhism..

a reply to: Noinden

You are still into stories, its not much i can do, i loved stories as a kid.. I hope you enjoy them as an adult.. There is no such thing as prophecy, self fulfilled, sure..

a reply to: tikbalang

Lad you have claimed on here to enjoy comics. They are stories.

Now on topic. Do you know what an allegory is? Because the story of Hiram Abiff is such a thing. Mystery religions teach mysteries (the secrets) via stories. It is the job of the seeker to discover them. You earn them, and value them.

Everything is a story to some extent.

Light is a wave, no wait it is a particle. No wait it is both. It is a story (a narrative) to help one understand that which is not apparent.

So yes I am "into" Nature. But that is my day job. As a scientist I explore the mysteries of nature (the observable universe). As a Pàganachd I explore the mysteries of my ancestors.

Thus the story of Hiram Abiff is a mytery for the low level Masons to discover a mystery. As someone who claims to know things, you know so very little, indeed nothing ....Jon Snow.