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Who is Hiram Abiff?

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posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: tikbalang

For someone who someone who claims to be a Marvel fan you seem to be missing an obvious joke neighbour.

For someone who claims to have completed their journey, you are missing something important. There is no proof that the Golden Ration is indeed univeral. Plato is not infalliable. Nor is he a Buddhist
You are too hung up on your Universal laws that you "chailleann na foraoise le haghaidh na crainn"




posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:11 PM
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originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: tikbalang

Lad you have claimed on here to enjoy comics. They are stories.

Now on topic. Do you know what an allegory is? Because the story of Hiram Abiff is such a thing. Mystery religions teach mysteries (the secrets) via stories. It is the job of the seeker to discover them. You earn them, and value them.

Everything is a story to some extent.

Light is a wave, no wait it is a particle. No wait it is both. It is a story (a narrative) to help one understand that which is not apparent.

So yes I am "into" Nature. But that is my day job. As a scientist I explore the mysteries of nature (the observable universe). As a Pàganachd I explore the mysteries of my ancestors.

Thus the story of Hiram Abiff is a mytery for the low level Masons to discover a mystery. As someone who claims to know things, you know so very little, indeed nothing ....Jon Snow.


Exactly, so why are you so off point when it comes to fact? You even learned this when you studied, why? You only go into things and say, how.. Why did someone make a spear from the ashtree? What was the allegory? Why did Arthur lift Excalibur from the stone? Why was Jesus Speared? What are the allegories??????

You cant be this blind and still call yourself Dr. Druid?



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: tikbalang

For someone who someone who claims to be a Marvel fan you seem to be missing an obvious joke neighbour.

For someone who claims to have completed their journey, you are missing something important. There is no proof that the Golden Ration is indeed univeral. Plato is not infalliable. Nor is he a Buddhist
You are too hung up on your Universal laws that you "chailleann na foraoise le haghaidh na crainn"



So why does it work on planet earth? Magic? I know you are into Druid stuff.. Maybe Aliens made the pyramids with spaceships?
You think Bards writes books nowadays ?
edit on 20161013 by tikbalang because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: Noinden

When having a chat with you makes me more convinced the reason why we have the law of moses,
Kingship and a religious institutions..



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: tikbalang

Again, you do not understand logic very well. You accuse me being "off point" when "it comes to fact". Yet you have not demonstrated it.

Your mythic refererences are a tad odd lad. Authurian legends are not inherently pre-Christian Celtic speaking peoples myths. They contain fragments of them. Thus Excalibur is probably Claíomh Solais.

I'm not going to comment on Jesus, he's not one of my gods of worship, and I don't see him as having been real
Not my place.

Illustrate your accusations, or be labeled untruthful.

Níl Tada Níos Measa Na Bód Ina Seasamh



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: tikbalang

Prove that Moses was a real person. Otherwise he, and those laws are just a story
You would not base your life on just a story would you? I mean are you part of a social club like the girl scouts or something?



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: tikbalang

It does not always work here lad, because it is not universal in nature.

You don't know what role the Bard had



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:27 PM
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a reply to: Noinden

You present stories, thats what you do.. If you believe in a prophecy, that is up to you.. I dont.. Instead i try to learn as much as possible, why things are as they are..



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:33 PM
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a reply to: tikbalang

Again I've not said my views on the Prophesy of the Morrigan (also I told you it was fulfilled in the mythic cycle.). I posted it as an example of the cultural aspects of the pre-Christian Celtic speaking peoples beliefs.

I investigate why things are the way they are each and every day. I'm a scientist. One who is published If you had followed the trail of clues, you'dve worked out who I was.



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:35 PM
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a reply to: Noinden




Prove that Moses was a real person. Otherwise he, and those laws are just a story You would not base your life on just a story would you? I mean are you part of a social club like the girl scouts or something?


He was based on a warlord named Sargon, Sargon - Wikipedia



It does not always work here lad, because it is not universal in nature.

You don't know what role the Bard had


It doesnt always work? wow... You built your own house?

A bard was a professional story teller Bard - Wikipedia

I actually dont believe you have a education.. i sincerely dont..



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: tikbalang

Again I've not said my views on the Prophesy of the Morrigan (also I told you it was fulfilled in the mythic cycle.). I posted it as an example of the cultural aspects of the pre-Christian Celtic speaking peoples beliefs.

I investigate why things are the way they are each and every day. I'm a scientist. One who is published If you had followed the trail of clues, you'dve worked out who I was.


Oooh you are a self-proclaimed scientist.. David Icke is also a self- proclaimed scientist he believes the moon is hollow..



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: network dude

So you mean that everything in our world started existing from 1717? Or is the rituals you mean?
The New testament was written in the 4th century, the KJV much much later..
Anyone can learn it, just observe.. You dont need stories or rituals for it..

Is your "creator" an image in your head? With a story to it?


You sound like you just want to win pinhead of the year, so while you have my vote, it's clear you can't deal with a normal conversation. Enjoy your new account.



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:47 PM
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a reply to: network dude



I will take the grandprize !

Presennt me facts, and i will listen.. Give me a story and i will pinhead



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:47 PM
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a reply to: tikbalang

Do you use Wikipedia as your only source? Out of curiosity?

Just as with the allegory of Hiram Abiff, it appears you don't understand cultural meanings of many things.
The bard was more than a story teller in the Celtic speaking peoples
Try some of the primary souces in your Wikipedia.

You've yet to discuss Hiram Abiff, and how he applies to the third degree Masons. Do you not understand allegories? Do all your spiritual things need to be revealed to you?



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: Noinden

In here, i do..

I had a friendly chat with bedlam, it was kinda of a joke.. Why i dont think you understand the allegory, is cause i know you believe in stories..
but im sure you referenced it to a prophecy in morrigan, its not spiritual, it becomes spiritual when you dont understand..
Neil DeGrasse calls it the perimeter of ignorance or rational ignorance, his essay is called perimeter of ignorance.. You make a conclusion based on your own life experience which has nothing to do with the real world..
the allegory is there so you can find the "little secret behind it ", if not, it makes you a better person..

Rational Ignorance - Wikipedia

If not you can always study; analytic geometry, descriptive geometry and linear algebra at the local junior college, you'll get it all without the mystic hooha, and more! Bedlam told me this in another thread..
edit on 20161013 by tikbalang because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: Noinden

Here is Hirams Gang sign; before the right tools were invented..



posted on Oct, 14 2016 @ 12:46 AM
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a reply to: tikbalang

You have just described every thing to do in ATS! In non of your threads or replies to threads have you described that your own experiences! Rather you insist we believe you.

You do not understand how the masons work.



posted on Oct, 14 2016 @ 01:52 AM
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a reply to: Noinden

I think it is up to everyone to try to find it for themselves, if you cant find it, it means you werent worthy.. Its a fantastic story, once you truly understand it.. But instead of going after my subjective view on things, i had people explaining the differences, i truly believe that humans should never be let free from the chains of society..

But you cant present stories as facts without a reference of reality to it, and most of all if you lack the knowledge for it, ask someone who has.. In here there are hundreds who has a real education in engineering, history, physics, the list goes on.. Can i with my own experience say to these people "You are wrong cause i read this prophecy?" No, they will skip the whole story part, and lay it out;" This is real and it works, cause.........."

Sure Bedlam is a Freemason and i dont agree on things, but he is a physicist. If you ask me to trust a man who believes in a story;" No! " I will believe in someone who can be logical not ignorant cause he lacks the mind and education..

Abiff, worked with Solomon, do you think just reading about Solomon and his greatness will make you understand? No you have to dig in fields you never thought you would..

Do i understand how the masons work and their rituals or the druid society even marriage in a Christian Church, ? No, and to be honest i dont understand half the rituals we do on x-mas or where i live our pagan tradition Midsummers Eve. But i understand why? The rituals are of cultural nature, a human invention, like stories.. You can make whatever you want with it..

The real world is out there, either you see it or you believe in stories..



posted on Oct, 14 2016 @ 03:33 AM
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originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Noinden

I think it is up to everyone to try to find it for themselves, if you cant find it, it means you werent worthy.. Its a fantastic story, once you truly understand it.. But instead of going after my subjective view on things, i had people explaining the differences, i truly believe that humans should never be let free from the chains of society..


What is the meaning of this statement?

It seems as though you are saying people are unworthy to be unchained from society.

I live in society and am unchained.

Does that bother you?



But you cant present stories as facts without a reference of reality to it, and most of all if you lack the knowledge for it, ask someone who has.. In here there are hundreds who has a real education in engineering, history, physics, the list goes on.. Can i with my own experience say to these people "You are wrong cause i read this prophecy?" No, they will skip the whole story part, and lay it out;" This is real and it works, cause.........."

Sure Bedlam is a Freemason and i dont agree on things, but he is a physicist. If you ask me to trust a man who believes in a story;" No! " I will believe in someone who can be logical not ignorant cause he lacks the mind and education..

Abiff, worked with Solomon, do you think just reading about Solomon and his greatness will make you understand? No you have to dig in fields you never thought you would..


You just said ''you can't present stories as facts without a reference of reality to it."

Then proceed to recite the myths as history.

Solomon is a mythical figure, not historical and same goes for Abi(ff). No reality to either except for the people they are based on. Shalmonezer and Hammurabi.



Do i understand how the masons work and their rituals or the druid society even marriage in a Christian Church, ? No, and to be honest i dont understand half the rituals we do on x-mas or where i live our pagan tradition Midsummers Eve. But i understand why? The rituals are of cultural nature, a human invention, like stories.. You can make whatever you want with it..

The real world is out there, either you see it or you believe in stories..


Do you believe in stories?



posted on Oct, 14 2016 @ 03:41 AM
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originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Malocchio

So "silly names" are a reason to mock? I am guessing the phrase "allegory" has no meaning to you?


Mock? No.

Make fun of because it's humorous? Yes.

It's in good fun.

There are many things I could make fun of ''free" masons for. The aprons for instance or the dress up games played during rituals.

The fact that they willingly call other men ''worshipful (whatever that means) master."

All good men are free (Philo).

So no need to join a cultlike fraternity with secret rituals to be good OR better. No need to submit to oaths.



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