Catholics are not Christian?

originally posted by: coomba98

It reads that way! You ever read the bible?

Yeah and parables very much read like fairy tales. Like they have a nice morale to the story and everything, and involve sometimes crazy or supernatural events.


They read very much not like facts. Just like the little red hood or the sleeping beauty

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFart

originally posted by: coomba98

It reads that way! You ever read the bible?

Yeah and parables very much read like fairy tales. Like they have a nice morale to the story and everything, and involve sometimes crazy or supernatural events.


They read very much not like facts. Just like the little red hood or the sleeping beauty

How do you know which is which?? When God is beyond facts. Like genisis. Is this a parable? Revalation?

Coomba98

Coomba98

Ok time for sleep.

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFart

originally posted by: coomba98

It reads that way! You ever read the bible?

Yeah and parables very much read like fairy tales. Like they have a nice morale to the story and everything, and involve sometimes crazy or supernatural events.


They read very much not like facts. Just like the little red hood or the sleeping beauty

How do you know which is which??

Coomba98

I already told you I don't really care what in the Bible is literal or not because it doesn't matter to me, the bible being a book of spiritual teachings.


Why don't you try for a minute to accept what we are trying to share with you (even if you disagree) instead of being needlessly inquisitory?

What's the point of all your questions if you ignore our previous responses? It feels like you just want to have the last word

originally posted by: coomba98
Ok time for sleep.

Probably a sound decision

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFart

originally posted by: coomba98
a reply to: SpaceGoatFart

Literally out loud or in their mind does not matter.

Not sure how to respond further as your response does not answer my quote you quoted.

If such things don't really matter, then it's not important to me to be able to determine what is parable and what is literal history.

I cannot tell because I wasn't there.

But it's not important to me if genesis is literal or not, since what matters with genesis is the spiritual message it teaches.

That answers your question.

So you believe because you want to? Not because of logic and evidence?

Coomba98

Is that hard to believe, the bible even tells Christians to believe despite it being silly, have faith when faith has almost dried up

Clearly you are coming from a place of no knowledge asking questions that are answered time and time again

Christians believe because they want to, despite it being illogical
Evidence, well that is something else, you can't understand because, your lack of knowledge

Some of the most intelligent people accept Christ

Dont turn into Padawan...

If i have a lack of knowledge then educated me!!

Super simple stuff!

Coomba98

But you are not asking because you are interested, it's just arguing for the sake
You are not interested in answers, just arguments

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFart

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFart

originally posted by: coomba98

It reads that way! You ever read the bible?

Yeah and parables very much read like fairy tales. Like they have a nice morale to the story and everything, and involve sometimes crazy or supernatural events.


They read very much not like facts. Just like the little red hood or the sleeping beauty

How do you know which is which??

Coomba98

I already told you I don't really care what in the Bible is literal or not because it doesn't matter to me, the bible being a book of spiritual teachings.


Why don't you try for a minute to accept what we are trying to share with you (even if you disagree) instead of being needlessly inquisitory?

What's the point of all your questions if you ignore our previous responses? It feels like you just want to have the last word

originally posted by: coomba98
Ok time for sleep.

Probably a sound decision

Because what you say is illogical!!

I ask you to educate me and what do i get?

Go on re-read the responses and my responses and so on.

I dont ignore... i say im pissy and people use that as an argument. Ive had 4 bourbons... 4!!!.

Pissy not pissed.

And its 11.33pm in Australia and i have work at 8.45am tomorrow. So yeah sleep time.

If you want to argue negatively then grow a brain and be more intelligent for christs sake!! Otherwise you look stupid.

Nice how you say i want the last word when you respond that way AFTER i said i was going to sleep.

Talk about strawman tactics.

So why not educate me correctly?

Coomba98

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFart

originally posted by: coomba98
a reply to: SpaceGoatFart

Literally out loud or in their mind does not matter.

Not sure how to respond further as your response does not answer my quote you quoted.

If such things don't really matter, then it's not important to me to be able to determine what is parable and what is literal history.

I cannot tell because I wasn't there.

But it's not important to me if genesis is literal or not, since what matters with genesis is the spiritual message it teaches.

That answers your question.

So you believe because you want to? Not because of logic and evidence?

Coomba98

Is that hard to believe, the bible even tells Christians to believe despite it being silly, have faith when faith has almost dried up

Clearly you are coming from a place of no knowledge asking questions that are answered time and time again

Christians believe because they want to, despite it being illogical
Evidence, well that is something else, you can't understand because, your lack of knowledge

Some of the most intelligent people accept Christ

Dont turn into Padawan...

If i have a lack of knowledge then educated me!!

Super simple stuff!

Coomba98

But you are not asking because you are interested, it's just arguing for the sake
You are not interested in answers, just arguments

No im interested. Your just not putting up a good argument so you turn to strawman tactics.

Kinda like Padawan does.

Coomba98

Now you are just being insulting. I'll attribute that to the alcohol you've been drinking

Have a good night. I hope you'll be in a better mood and more inclined to read what people write to answer your questions tomorrow

This is insane, and I have never heard such a thing. They have the crucifix everywhere, and they aren't Christians?
The whole point of Christianity is to accept Jesus. Which they wholeheartedly do. To say otherwise is idiocy.

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFart

originally posted by: coomba98
a reply to: SpaceGoatFart

Literally out loud or in their mind does not matter.

Not sure how to respond further as your response does not answer my quote you quoted.

If such things don't really matter, then it's not important to me to be able to determine what is parable and what is literal history.

I cannot tell because I wasn't there.

But it's not important to me if genesis is literal or not, since what matters with genesis is the spiritual message it teaches.

That answers your question.

So you believe because you want to? Not because of logic and evidence?

Coomba98

Is that hard to believe, the bible even tells Christians to believe despite it being silly, have faith when faith has almost dried up

Clearly you are coming from a place of no knowledge asking questions that are answered time and time again

Christians believe because they want to, despite it being illogical
Evidence, well that is something else, you can't understand because, your lack of knowledge

Some of the most intelligent people accept Christ

Dont turn into Padawan...

If i have a lack of knowledge then educated me!!

Super simple stuff!

Coomba98

But you are not asking because you are interested, it's just arguing for the sake
You are not interested in answers, just arguments

No im interested. Your just not putting up a good argument so you turn to strawman tactics.

Kinda like Padawan does.

Coomba98

Oddly Coombs you are being the so called padawan

The insult is blunted because you are asking the questions, playing the role of student
I am guessing the padawan is a title for student?

Just a student who is being deliberately obtuse

Understand there is no argument, I am questioning your sincerity
I don't care for your games

a reply to: Akragon

It started with Protestant Reformation of 16th century. In order to show enough of a deviation from the Reformer's ideas of the "truth" and put themselves into the position of "restoring the faith" as opposed to "changing the faith" it was necessary to claim "they've gone so far as to no longer be Christian".

Then there was the Radical Reformation, the idea that reforming a bad thing wasn't good enough. The idea of going back to the drawing board of New Testament Christianity with living apostles and prophets giving the Holy Spirit message and determining who marries who, and how long the oven should be preheated etc.

Then the Puritans with their idea that the Church was full of idolatry leading to great iconoclastic(vandalistic destruction) efforts.

It has been a U.S. political idea that Roman Catholics can't be trusted to be all American since they have honorary citizenship in a foreign state ie Vatican. JFK had to pretty much swear up and down that he wouldn't take orders from Vatican for purposes of public policy.

Fast forward to 1970s Jesus Movement. That's when the Pentecostal movement of turn of the century got a dose of steroids and became a new Radical Reformation, with claims that Papacy was full of Paganism, therefore not Christian. Dispensationalist inerrancy of Scripture, glorification of Zionism as fulfillment of prophecy. Massive shift of political landscape. Large sums of money available to push a political agenda from American pulpits and TV networks.

So the radical "priority of OT prophecy" people call Catholics Pagan innovators without realizing that the so-called Babylonian "evil" is already present in the Old Testament also, yet better disguised.

The core doctrines are the same:
1) The people have default damned status.
2) The Grace of the God is necessary to change status of people to saved.
3) That Grace is made manifest and mediated through the death of the Christ Jesus.
4) The Church is composed of the people who through the spoken word, baptism, and Lords Supper(Eucharist) are joined together and remain together as one "in the Lord".

So, there you go.

originally posted by: Aedaeum
a reply to: markosity1973

Again, I don't believe that either. Christ gave us an example of how to pray: "Our Father in heaven...". Praying to "Jesus" is not what he wanted and in my opinion a dire misrepresentation to why he came in the first place. Anyone who prays outside of how he told us to pray, should be questioning why they would pray any other way. I'm sure that's not going to be a popular opinion with most Christians.

I can see your point and I would say you are 100% correct UNTIL Christ rose from the dead and ascended to heaven to sit next to the father and not across the table or at the other end of the table.

How do you get to God? Through the Son.......

Who will be judging you in the afterlife? The son.....

Who or better yet what did the Apostle John and other apostles call Jesus? Christ, the anointed one, only begotten son, and of course God!

Christ will be your judge ...... just like for me and everyone else......Jews, Muslims, Hindu's....etc....

Hey, Akragon....

Catholics are totally Christians. They have rituals because it makes the 'mystical experience' more profound when there are soaring ceilings, resonating choirs, stained glass, incense, bells.....all that stuff.

It is absolutely CHRISTIANITY. It simply incorporated many of the more 'mystical' styles of deity-worship. Also - because no one but the priests were allowed to read the Bible, it was all completely dictatorial......

still is, with the Pope being in charge and all. But Christianity it is.

And Pope Francis actually represents and speaks out for the causes that Jesus wanted anyway ---- in terms of social care, tolerance, evolving spirituality, etc. He really is a breath of fresh air.

but yes - Catholics are Christians.
And Pope Francis is a TRUE CHRISTIAN in spirit, grace, and presentation.

He is right up there with the Dalai Lama.

Roman Catholicism hasn't always been that way, and we all know the past atrocities - ancient to recent. But I honestly think he's the sort of "Bernie Sanders" equivalent.....a benevolent sage.

a reply to: tigertatzen

I don't fear repercussions at all.

I do not adhere to rituals, crosses, priests, or pastors. My relationship with God is mine alone. There is no one on this Earth who is a representative of my Father, just man fiddling about with his own ignorance. I do not trust ANY man for ANY thing.

At what point was I judging any person? I said ritual (specifically a "Hail Mary") was vain repetition, which it is.

It's hilarious that you think I'm judging people, when in fact I'm judging a religion.

Nope, I don't believe going to church makes you anything but a church go-er. It does not make you righteous. You assume a lot of things about Christians, even though the only factor that can be assumed is belief in Christ.

The "tools" you mention that supposedly get you "closer" to God were invented by man and have no place in ones relationship with God.

The only one, if you are a christian, who knows what's in your heart is your god.

Now you're just confusing me, cause you're agreeing with me, yet you worded your whole post as an attack on what I said, but ultimately agree with the sentiments I laid out in my post. Our relationship with our Father is always about the heart and never did I say otherwise. If we're talking about our personal relationship with God, that's between you and Him, but when it comes to religion, the versus between Catholicism and Christianity, there are some notable divergences.

I want to add that I don't believe in a "one true religion" because there is no such thing. We do not have all the truth, all we have as an abbreviation of it in the scriptures. Christianity has just as many flaws as Catholicism. The topic of the OP is to assert that a Catholic is a Christian and I do not agree. None of the judgments I made have anything to do with the people, only the religion.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Christ died before the foundation of the Earth. God has not changed, only man has.

a reply to: chr0naut

This is why we end our prayers with "...in Christs name..."

That passage does not give anyone permission to suddenly pray: "Dear Jesus..."

That being said, we all have our own interpretations and I'm not going to tell anyone that praying "Dear Jesus" means their prayers won't be answered because that's simply not true. In my own spiritual life I want to be as accurate as possible with my prayers and how I address my Father. The name "Jesus" is also a blasphemous name, which is why I don't use it either, but again, using it does not mean you worship another God like some will tell you.

Our Father is very loving, considerate, and understanding. He knows our needs before we know them. He acts accordingly. He wants for all of us.

What about the Orthodox ?, they come from the Byzantine Empire in fact they are from Emperor Constantine times

I dont want to get off topic..

But what frustrates me.. (even though I am a non-practicing catholic) is that people who aren't religious in this country and arent educated on religion associate the word "catholic" with all of those extremist protestant churches like Westboro etc..

I then always have to explain to them how the Catholic Church has actually become.. comparatively quite Liberal.

I detailed my Catholic schooling and upbringing earlier in the thread... that being said, my personal beliefs often conflict with that of the "Official" doctrine as I am pro-choice amongst a few other beliefs the church doesnt necessarily carry. I have been happy to see the Catholic church move in a more socially liberal direction, it has actually reeled me back to a few Masses because of it. The priesthood is getting younger and more modern.

originally posted by: coomba98
a reply to: chr0naut

This is different. Going by that belief everything in the universe is God. Even you are a part of God.

Yeshi prays to his father many times. Begs him when he finds out his going to die.

Schizophrenic?

Coomba98

I would have thought that He did all that for our benefit. As an example.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: chr0naut

Well the bible is not the truth it is a 3rd hand report edited till it nearly has next to nothing to do with the original anymore, that's not prove of anything.

Aren't we all gods children? Isn't Jesus more or less a symbol for how you could be if you find god in your heart?
That's why he is part of the trinity.

Do you have any proof that the Bible has been edited and fundamentally changed in its content?

To me it would seem that once the source texts were 'out there' in many hands, that fundamental change to the content would be obvious to all and would leave a 'paper trail'.

No Jesus isn't a prophet or wise teacher. We already had enough of those. He is the unique and "only begotten" son of God, as suggested in the earliest Hebrew text (Job) and reinforced all through the Bible.

It is likely that every instance of God 'appearing' to someone in the Bible, that it is actually Jesus Christ who was appearing. The very name YHWH pictographically, in proto Hebrew, means "behold the nail, behold the hand". If you analyze the actual texts, you will see how likely this is.

The Gospel of John clearly identifies that Jesus was God and the Creator of all. You'd have to ignore a lot of content of the Bible to suggest that Jesus was not God.

When Jesus became incarnate he accepted the limitations of being a human. That is why he wasn't an omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent spirit being at that time.

Perhaps Jesus is also not at present a deity like He once was, but instead is a glorified human, as alluded to througout the New Testament where it describes Him as the firstborn of many brothers and describes Christians as adopted sons & daughters of God. I can only go on what He has revealed in scripture, He was God, He became human, and He now sits on a throne in heaven at the right hand of the Father.