Catholics are not Christian?

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: coomba98

God has given us freewill
That means God has stepped back from His position as sovereign to allow us choice, anything short of that would make us robots

Umm sorry whats the contexts of your argument?

Sorry bit pissy and time for dinner... DINNER!!!

Coomba98

originally posted by: coomba98
So you believe because you want to? Not because of logic and evidence?

My beliefs are completely separate from the spiritual teachings I can learn from the Bible.

They are mainly based on personal experience assessed through the prism of logic. I certainly do not believe because some book supposedly tells me I should.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFart

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: SpaceGoatFart
Now days some religions wrongly make people believe walking is all there is and "running" is not possible.

I believe that's mainly your perception of them.

Religions don't teach. Men do. If someone is giving an interpretation of some sacred books, its still his own interpretation. Not the one of everyone reading that book. Even among something as hierarchic as the Catholic Church, there is no shortage of different opinions and contradictory teachings.

You problem is more with some people than with some religions.

Ideas are written down and mean what they say. That people who say they are following a book do not follow all the ideas in the book and cannot follow all the ideas in the book since contradiction exists within those books is another story. Their experience is subjective how they have been influenced by the book and how they change because of that information. Some indoctrinates themselves and some incorporates only part and some learn questioning ideas. If the book is poison or nourishment depend on what ideas the book hold.

If a book was perfect nourishment even indoctrinating yourself fully without learning questioning would not make you dangerous since the ideas you are being told are benign.

originally posted by: luciferslight
Christians don't bow to the virgin Mary. They believe in the second coming of Christ. They believe in the rapture. They believe in love.

What you are actually describing is some protestant sects. Things like the rapture literally started to be taught in the 17th century by American puritans.

Futurism (the obsession with a future unraveling of Revelations) is quite modern and very specific to American protestants.

Most Christians focus simply on their daily life and how to live it to their best according to the teachings of Christ. Not living life in the hope of an hypothetical future rapture and judgement. That's just a unhealthy fixation.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFart

originally posted by: coomba98
So you believe because you want to? Not because of logic and evidence?

My beliefs are completely separate from the spiritual teachings I can learn from the Bible.

They are mainly based on personal experience assessed through the prism of logic. I certainly do not believe because some book supposedly tells me I should.

And that is the gift of faith.

If one pokes around here on ATS and reads my posts in other forums they would wonder why on earth I would support a position of faith. But like yourself, it is personal experience that has been tested through logic that leads me to accept that there are things in this life that cannot be explained and there is a higher power than us humans in this universe.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
Ideas are written down and mean what they say.

Then explain how the same book (Bible) can give such different interpretations as Catholicism, Cathars, Puritans, Orthodoxy, or even some crazy people obsessing about Obama being the antichrist?

The message of a book is subjective, not objective.

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: coomba98

The bible reads like a historical account. Infers its a historical account.

Kinda like cherry picking. This is real and this a moral.

Coomba98

Not really.....

The Song of Songs is not an historical account. The story of Jonah and the whale serves more purpose as an allegory than an actual event.

So it is full of both parables and literal history. The tricky part for the uninitiated is deciphering correctly which is which.

How do you come by this opinion? Of being both parables and literal history?

How do you know whats what?

Coomba98

The way to tell parables apart from actual events in the Bible is that parables don't have names of people. Think the parable of the prodigal son. A real event/story with have people's names and places listed in the story.

Is this opinion or fact?

Coomba98

In regards to the scriptures, it's a fact. Parables are impersonal, no names are given, it's an illustration.

a reply to: markosity1973

So what makes you have faith?

Coomba98

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: coomba98

The bible reads like a historical account. Infers its a historical account.

Kinda like cherry picking. This is real and this a moral.

Coomba98

Not really.....

The Song of Songs is not an historical account. The story of Jonah and the whale serves more purpose as an allegory than an actual event.

So it is full of both parables and literal history. The tricky part for the uninitiated is deciphering correctly which is which.

How do you come by this opinion? Of being both parables and literal history?

How do you know whats what?

Coomba98

The way to tell parables apart from actual events in the Bible is that parables don't have names of people. Think the parable of the prodigal son. A real event/story with have people's names and places listed in the story.

Is this opinion or fact?

Coomba98

In regards to the scriptures, it's a fact. Parables are impersonal, no names are given, it's an illustration.

So what makes you believe parables are morals/ impersonal/illustration? And not fact?

Coomba98

originally posted by: coomba98
a reply to: markosity1973

So what makes you have faith?

Coomba98

I believe he answered you already Personal experience.

originally posted by: coomba98
So what makes you believe parables are morals/ impersonal/illustration? And not fact?

Coomba98

What makes you think they could be fact?

You are correct, you do sound a bit pissy, strangely inquisitory and in need of a good dinner

a reply to: SpaceGoatFart

I was after elaboration. Not a statement.

Coomba98

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: coomba98

The bible reads like a historical account. Infers its a historical account.

Kinda like cherry picking. This is real and this a moral.

Coomba98

Not really.....

The Song of Songs is not an historical account. The story of Jonah and the whale serves more purpose as an allegory than an actual event.

So it is full of both parables and literal history. The tricky part for the uninitiated is deciphering correctly which is which.

How do you come by this opinion? Of being both parables and literal history?

How do you know whats what?

Coomba98

The way to tell parables apart from actual events in the Bible is that parables don't have names of people. Think the parable of the prodigal son. A real event/story with have people's names and places listed in the story.

Is this opinion or fact?

Coomba98

In regards to the scriptures, it's a fact. Parables are impersonal, no names are given, it's an illustration.

So what makes you believe parables are morals/ impersonal/illustration? And not fact?

Coomba98

Why do you ask when you have no interest in the answer.
You are just asking to be difficult and arrogant

So you don't believe, won't believe but act like you know everything already

Why not just say you don't believe it, won't believe anything anyone says and just let it go

Really, is there an answer you wil accept, what's your point, why ask?

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFart

originally posted by: coomba98
So what makes you believe parables are morals/ impersonal/illustration? And not fact?

Coomba98

What makes you think they could be fact?

You are correct, you do sound a bit pissy, strangely inquisitory and in need of a good dinner

It reads that way! You ever read the bible?

Are you more intoxicated than me? Your response seems that way. SpaceGoatFart....
(Yes i can be passive aggressive too)

Coomba98

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFart

originally posted by: coomba98
a reply to: SpaceGoatFart

Literally out loud or in their mind does not matter.

Not sure how to respond further as your response does not answer my quote you quoted.

If such things don't really matter, then it's not important to me to be able to determine what is parable and what is literal history.

I cannot tell because I wasn't there.

But it's not important to me if genesis is literal or not, since what matters with genesis is the spiritual message it teaches.

That answers your question.

So you believe because you want to? Not because of logic and evidence?

Coomba98

Is that hard to believe, the bible even tells Christians to believe despite it being silly, have faith when faith has almost dried up

Clearly you are coming from a place of no knowledge asking questions that are answered time and time again

Christians believe because they want to, despite it being illogical
Evidence, well that is something else, you can't understand because, your lack of knowledge

Some of the most intelligent people accept Christ

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: coomba98

The bible reads like a historical account. Infers its a historical account.

Kinda like cherry picking. This is real and this a moral.

Coomba98

Not really.....

The Song of Songs is not an historical account. The story of Jonah and the whale serves more purpose as an allegory than an actual event.

So it is full of both parables and literal history. The tricky part for the uninitiated is deciphering correctly which is which.

How do you come by this opinion? Of being both parables and literal history?

How do you know whats what?

Coomba98

The way to tell parables apart from actual events in the Bible is that parables don't have names of people. Think the parable of the prodigal son. A real event/story with have people's names and places listed in the story.

Is this opinion or fact?

Coomba98

In regards to the scriptures, it's a fact. Parables are impersonal, no names are given, it's an illustration.

So what makes you believe parables are morals/ impersonal/illustration? And not fact?

Coomba98

Why do you ask when you have no interest in the answer.
You are just asking to be difficult and arrogant

So you don't believe, won't believe but act like you know everything already

Why not just say you don't believe it, won't believe anything anyone says and just let it go

Really, is there an answer you wil accept, what's your point, why ask?

This is a response from someone who cannot put across their opinion in an intelligent way.

Why not just answer my question honestly??

If its blind faith so be it. I can understand that.

Coomba98

originally posted by: coomba98
a reply to: SpaceGoatFart

I was after elaboration. Not a statement.

Coomba98

I can't speak for him, but I can tell you that personal experience being personal, they are usually very difficult to convey.

Like if I tried to describe tastes or colors to someone who never experienced them.

Personally my experiences leading to faith was a slow and gradual process, piecing together various things I lived throughout my life. They don't prove that a God exists, but they seem to indicate that some form of consciousness greater than our individual ones do, and that we are connected to it. Whether it's the consciousness of humanity, of earth, of the universe, or God, or even an illusion from my perceptions I can't tell. But these possibilities put my own existence in perspective, and help me give meaning to life, and directions to my actions, just like a universal deity would.

a reply to: coomba98

Think you missed a post earlier

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFart

originally posted by: coomba98
a reply to: SpaceGoatFart

Literally out loud or in their mind does not matter.

Not sure how to respond further as your response does not answer my quote you quoted.

If such things don't really matter, then it's not important to me to be able to determine what is parable and what is literal history.

I cannot tell because I wasn't there.

But it's not important to me if genesis is literal or not, since what matters with genesis is the spiritual message it teaches.

That answers your question.

So you believe because you want to? Not because of logic and evidence?

Coomba98

Is that hard to believe, the bible even tells Christians to believe despite it being silly, have faith when faith has almost dried up

Clearly you are coming from a place of no knowledge asking questions that are answered time and time again

Christians believe because they want to, despite it being illogical
Evidence, well that is something else, you can't understand because, your lack of knowledge

Some of the most intelligent people accept Christ

Dont turn into Padawan...

If i have a lack of knowledge then educated me!!

Super simple stuff!

Coomba98

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: coomba98

Think you missed a post earlier

I was responding to your previous post before you did another.

I have just responded to said missed quote

Coomba98