Catholics are not Christian?

a reply to: coomba98

God murdering thousand... i cannot see this as love.

The only error I see is in thinking God is only love. He is also righteous, holy and just. He is extremely patient and not willing anyone turn away from Him toward wickedness. But His patience isn't eternal, there comes a point where He judges the wickedness of people. Take the Canaanites for example, their society was one of the most wicked history has recorded, yet God gave them over 400 years to repent and turn away from their sins before He judged them and had the Israelites wipe them out.

a reply to: chr0naut

Well the bible is not the truth it is a 3rd hand report edited till it nearly has next to nothing to do with the original anymore, that's not prove of anything.

Aren't we all gods children? Isn't Jesus more or less a symbol for how you could be if you find god in your heart?
That's why he is part of the trinity.

a reply to: markosity1973

Its really easy to see my point, if you do some comparative research on those religions, search for similarities.

And i you happen to enjoy reading the bible, you will get more from it.

I am recovering from surgery, so my energy levels are pretty low, but the info is easily found.

Happy hunting

originally posted by: coomba98
The Agape. Definition:
unconditional love that transcends, that serves regardless of circumstances. Regarding Gods Agape of man and mans Agape for God.

Even that is a human definition, what somebody has come up with.
If God is love, then his love is defined by what he does.
Just as a hint, acting in love for someone does not always, even in human terms, involve giving them everything they want.

The word "murder", incidentally, is emotively inaccurate.
In Biblical terms, God is the source and owner of life. It is his property, that is the important point.
Murder is defined as the act of stealing his property, without his permission.
So it is not logically possible for God to be guilty of murder, any more than it is possible for a man to steal from his own orchard. It is his property, he is entitled to take it whenever he likes.
In fact, in principle, he is the ultimate cause of death in general, when he takes back to himself the life he gave in the first place.
As I observed in my "Death and the God of life" thread;

There is a paradox here. The God who is the source of Life is also, necessarily, the final cause of Death, because it takes place whenever he withdraws the life which he has given (as he is entitled to do).

a reply to: NOTurTypical

And this is unconditional love? Mass murder?

The only 'murder' that is considered just is:

1. Euthanasia.
2. Mercy due to mortal wounds. (kind of a euthanasia)

The Job story proves Gods Agape towards mankind.

Coomba98

originally posted by: Lucidparadox

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: Lucidparadox

That couldn't be further from the truth.

Catholics are taught ton have a personal connection and relationship with Christ.

Where did you hear that we do not have direct access? Lol

Yup.....

The main difference between Catholicism and the true protestant faiths is that they are like "Jesus - lite" versions of Salvation. They fastidiously hold on to the belief that you can only talk to Jesus and God.

The older Coptic, Catholic and even Angilcan (episcopalian) faiths however all believe in the communion of Saints. i.e. Jesus has helpers. So while the holy trinity are always number one, we have loads of folks in heaven to go bug God for the odd favour when we need it

Correct.. if I'm not mistaken thats the main difference between Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Catholic.. is thst Roman Catholics believe in the communion of Saints and the ability to call on their help.. whereas eastern Orthodox is strictly the trinity (but recognizes saints lives as great examples)

Hi, the differences between the two branches are not as you state - it is something that's probably not covered too much as part of theology to the best of my knowledge, but it is quite an interesting subject. There's quite an interesting article on the subject in the link below.

www.catholic.com...

It's a little difficult to summarise as the article covers a lot of historical and theological background from both sides, but key areas that caused the division include the amended definition of the Trinity by the Roman Church, and whether the Pop has primacy of honour (Eastern Orthodox opinion at the time) or primacy of authority (Roman Church opinion).

Quite a good read, worth a few minutes of your time if you are interested.

a reply to: DISRAELI

So what your saying is that human's cannot perceive Gods agape?

Even you?

Coomba98

originally posted by: coomba98
a reply to: DISRAELI

Wow never heard of the four loves. Interesting indeed.

Will have to read up on that.

But before i do
(ignorant response given i still need to read up).

How can Gods love be unconditional when he hates us as much as he supposedly loves us?

There are many passeges in the bible where Gods absolutly pissed at us and murders thousands at a time... like Moses and the 10 commandments as one example.

Ever heard of the Wrath of God?

..... or ...... Day of the Lord?

Unconditional love.... i think not.

Why send someone you love to Hell for an eternity of pain and torture?

If ive got this wrong happy to be educated.

Coomba98


Edit...

So if God is love or Agape as said in John 4:8

'Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.'

So 'Hatred' comes from love? Evil comes from love? Wrath comes from love... the Agape love that is.

Gods love is unconditional, it comes down to your choice
You choose not to acknowledge Him
The offer is good, you just say no, I don't want you, leave me alone

Gods just doing as you have asked
You are just playing word games

a reply to: coomba98
That is why the most important human quality described in the Bible is trust.
We need that to cover the shortfall of knowledge.

a reply to: Akragon

It is as they say an Idea that is itself ANTI CHRISTIAN, not catholicism but the idea that because other christian's do not share the idea's owners own denomination that they are not therefore christian.

Here is my take, some have pointed out that Catholic's are some of the worst christians which is actually a pile of unmentionable's considering the thread's vein so I shall not add star's and hashtag's to say what I think of that as we all have imagination's here.

Actually the truth is there are GODD and BAD christian's in every single denomination and guess what the majority by far and way of ALL denomination's are BAD christian's (I should know as I see myself as one).

Here is my take on it, the history of all denomination's is a history of small, petty little men making themselves into big men on stage or in front of a pew or whatever that have filled there own pocket's and lived like princes on the donation's which are supposed to be going to the church and then being REDISTRIBUTED to the poorest members of the congregation based on what they need - check the history of the church on that it is all in the new testament that is HOW the church is supposed to be run like a Commune or even a Kibbutz (in fact a Kibbutz is almost identical sharing all they have in material and labour for the common good of the body of Christ except in a kibbutz it is more about the community since mostly they are not christian's but the church early history show's that it is actually a very early Judeo Christian idea).

It is about NOT judging others and yes we have all heard them in all denomination's, angry priests or preachers whom say this or that about another denomination or religion.

When Jesus said "Judge not or I Shall judge you" ("Judge not lest ye be judged") what part of that did they not get, all of it apparently.

Anyway my thought for the day.

a reply to: DISRAELI

No word games just trying to understand.

Like i said in the previous post:

So what your saying is that human's cannot perceive Gods agape?

Even you?

Coomba98

a reply to: solve

Ahh, I get what you mean now.

There are similarities between the two because Islam ripped off elements of Christianity. Mohammed even said JC was a great prophet (but not as great as him) He also said that Jesus never died upon the cross. Which is kind of ironic because in the earlier stages of his great prophet journey, he tried to present himself as the second coming of Christ to the Christians among other things. He failed several times at being a holy man before he stumbled on the divine revelation idea.

Read this link below and you will understand what I mean

www.hope-of-israel.org...

PS I hope you recover quickly

a reply to: coomba98
I don't claim to be more than human.
In the Bible, God is communicating to us as much as we are capable of understanding, and we do the best we can with what we've been given.
Full understanding, not possible.
Partial understanding is available if we are willing to look for it. Those who don't even want to understand won't get any understanding at all.

a reply to: DISRAELI

So your saying you cannot perceive Gods agape?

Yes or no.

And no, God is not communicating as much as capable. See the OT!!

The big guy talks directly and legibly in the vocal sense. Look at Noah!! Clear and concise instructions. Or Soloman with building instructions. To list a few.

Coomba98

a reply to: coomba98
What exactly are you looking for?
If you can't see an answer to your question in what I've already said, that's your problem, not mine.

a reply to: Akragon

I'm not Catholic, but I don't understand this one.

I think the Catholic Church has its challenges with certain things theologically, but at its root, it still believes in Christ and as far as I'm concerned, that is what it takes to be Christian.

Scripture makes it clear that at the end all the churches in existence will pretty much have their challenges as will all Christians. For some, this will be a bar to their knowing Christ, truly knowing Him, but others will overcome. I see nothing that says Catholics are especially incapable of overcoming.

So they are Christian.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
But that mysticism is not in the forefront and from my point of view not known to the Christians as a whole.

Children have to learn to walk before learning to run.

Religions are for the masses (and as such, imperfect, materialistic and tainted by politics), they are introduction class, the spirituality 101, and since they depend on humans as teachers, the quality of their teachings will vary greatly depending on the quality of the mentors.


But when you eventually learn your way to the inner connection you have with the divine, then you don't depend as much from others to deepen your experience and understanding of spirituality. You them become both the student and the teacher. To you as to others. The framework and guidance of religions, which served mainly as an introduction to these mysteries, become obsolete. You can get rid of the training wheels. Yet not forgetting you are still part of the same experience, sharing moments through these religions which as the name implies (religare) serve as bonding agents.

originally posted by: coomba98
The big guy talks directly and legibly in the vocal sense. Look at Noah!! Clear and concise instructions. Or Soloman with building instructions. To list a few.

Not every Christians consider all of the Bible to be literally true. Actually most believe it's full of symbolism and poetic figures.

What matters most to you? The accuracy of the testimony of the Bible, or the significance of its message?

originally posted by: ketsuko
I'm not Catholic, but I don't understand this one.

It's really easy though. Anti-Catholicism has been a major political theme in Protestant countries after the Reformation.

en.wikipedia.org...


It's a cultural thing.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: coomba98
What exactly are you looking for?
If you can't see an answer to your question in what I've already said, that's your problem, not mine.

Im looking for your understanding.

The problem lies with you unable to explain properly.
(Dont take that as a negative)

If you cant explain properly than would that not be on you?

Coomba98