Pulse Nightclub Shooter Spurned by Boyfriends, ‘Did it for Revenge’

originally posted by: Gryphon66
I have no idea what Mr. Mateen felt, thought, believed or was attracted to.

However, in the process of accepting (or understanding) that one is attracted to one's own sex (and it's a process that is relatively easy for some and almost impossible for others) particularly if one is male, there is a certain issue that by accepting ones' preferences, one will become "less than" male ... not a "real" man.

There is a certain iconography in our culture of what it means to be a strong man. Do you remember all those "selfies" in which Mateen had on an NYPD shirt? Cops are strong. Cops are sexy.

Who do you think he was making those pictures for? or why?

The image he wanted to project of himself was of a strong man. The image he was terrified of was a weak or effeminate man. This would also have been strongly reinforced by his parent's cultures and from Islam in general.

The images he saw around him at the clubs were of other gay men. He would have been both attracted and repelled at the same time in this theory. After a while, that conflict became too much for him to bear.

Ultimately, in his mind, the solution was to destroy all those images ... both of the others and of himself.

EDIT: I hesitate to add this, as I'm aware of the ridicule that the term is going to prompt, but in the most real forensic sense of the word, something TRIGGERED Mateen. Some event, something happened. Perhaps his marriage was failing (again). Perhaps he found out that he had contracted HIV. Perhaps he was mistreated by a lover.

There was some event or happening that started a collapse of his personality. Something "broke" him.

Thank you for sharing this. I couldn't even bring myself to chop it up to respond... so I just have to quote in its entirety. And that's okay, because this bears repeating!

I have gotten the feeling that he was a tortured man; you have explained much better than I why and how that could be.

I also felt that something triggered him -- but I used the word "snapped," and I like your word much better. It seems to me that finding out he might have gotten AIDS could do that. Perhaps even feeling like AIDS would be the ultimate divine punishment, and therefore jihad was the path of redemption. I don't know of course, but it all fits in my head.

a reply to: everyone

Killing 50 gay people instead of just 50 random people sounds like a very preferable idea for a Islamic extremist terrorist attack...

Especially when one is gay and has caught the "gay disease" and knows it will bring shame and dishonor to his family... and especially his father who is running for president of an Islamic nation...

a reply to: Boadicea

again, I ask where is the supporting evidence that this animal was gay?

a reply to: everyone

So it is Mr. Mateen now i see.
Do you want to kiss his bloody boots that he wore that night as well while you are at it?

Really? That's all you got??? How freaking pathetic.

This poster shared his profound thoughts and insights into the killer's possible/probable frame of mind and motivations, and all you can do is take objection to the use of a harmless title that means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things?

Wow.

a reply to: Boadicea

I appreciate your thoughtful response!

Here's the thing. None of us know exactly what or why Mateen did what he did. Nothing about this situation, however, rings true on the "ISIS sleeper cell member" narrative. It just doesn't. I certainly have no reason to excuse Muslim extremists, and I am certainly aware that they do exist.

It is important, and I agree with my friends on the Right about this, to call terrorism out for what it is. I probably differ from many of them when I say it's just as important to do with DOMESTIC terrorism, but still, let's find agreement where we can.

I will say it like this and maybe it will make sense. Yes, I'm very, VERY aware of the many human rights violations across the world that are endemic in some Muslim countries. I'm aware of what the hard line religious say. I'm aware, painfully, that there are some who would want to toss me off a building because of who I am. But those people are not limited to "Islamic terrorists" but also include Russian Orthodox gangs that regularly beat LGBT in the streets of Moscow, American pastors (and it's not limited to one or two) who regularly call for the death's of gay folks.

But then I hear, at the same time, that concerns about "oppression" and "hate crimes" are all just made up by the gay community.

As you can see here. It's not just concern that terrorists are going to go unnoticed ... but that LGBT folks are trying, somehow, to unfairly "make it about us "

a reply to: SM2

I think this new narrative is a crock full of s*&^ to push people away from the ISIS terrorist story and push the whole "religion of peace" BS.

Fair enough.

And I think you're willfully ignoring anything and everything that indicates it is MORE than just religious extremism... and in the process, are ignoring the profound implications going forward of others using/exploiting jihad for personal issues.

It's not an either/or situation... it can be both.

originally posted by: onequestion
What about the previous FBI investigations

You want us to believe the reason he was investigated had nothing to do with his motives for the shootings

Since you didn't bother to address your comment to anyone in particular, I will assume it's for the OP -- me -- and respond...

I don't "want" or even expect you to believe anything. I brought forth further information for discussion. Information which you seem to reject out of hand because it doesn't fit your preconceived notions.

Yes, the FBI investigated him... and found nothing of importance. He had not committed any known terrorist act at the time of the investigation, although I'm quite sure if he had wanted to he not only could have, but would have.

So what changed? What made him commit this act at this time? Can you categorically deny that his private life had anything to do with this decision? Of course you can't. None of us can.

originally posted by: SM2
a reply to: Gryphon66

Show me where he claimed he was aligned with Al-Qaeda and Hammas. The transcripts only say ISIS . The onyl place i have seen the other links is here mostly by people wanting to paint this guy as a heart broken confused gay man not that the Islamic terrorist that he truly was.

Here's one of many:

Security Firm Moved Mateen After Al Qaeda Boast, But Didn't Fire Him

Is your Google broken???

a reply to: Boadicea

ok then, fair enough, I believe what I stated I believe. That does not mean, that I can not change that belief with further evidence. I have asked multiple times in this thread...where is the evidence and eyewitness accounts that show the orginal muslim terrorist angle is not the motivation? where is the evidence that this animal was gay and was out for vengence? i have seen nothing substantial about that. just a gay app on his phone, which could have been used for scouting out targets and someone asserting he was gay. The majority of the information that we know points in a different direction. If it was all about being an angry gay guy that wanted revenge for HIV (which actually sounds borderline ridiculous in the context of what happened) why did he recon Disney ? Just because they have some gay pride stuff occasionally? If this is all the evidence there is, then it really is grasping at straws to deflect. If there is more, then we should look at it and discuss it.

I mean really, lets go with the most likely here.. A muslim man, described as being devout by people who knew him. Described as prone to violent outbursts by those who knew him, reported to verbally support radical islam by co workers and others. Under investigation by the fbi on numerous occasions. From a nutbar family, look at his father. Ex wife claimed he was violent and agreed with radical islam, claims he was doing it for ISIS, ISIS announced it would happen three days prior to then claimed responsibility. Or, some dude says "hey he was gay and got HIV" look heere he has a gay app, he must be gay and thats why he did it. I mean afterall, it is pretty hard to convince people to ban guns or enact more gun laws when they are watching ISIS fighters Jihad on thier friends and loved ones. It's much easier to accomplish that if he is just some confused gay guy that hates other gays and did it because they were gay.

However, if there is more evidence then an app and 1 random person saying "hey, he was gay" then ok, lets look at it.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: SM2
a reply to: Gryphon66

Show me where he claimed he was aligned with Al-Qaeda and Hammas. The transcripts only say ISIS . The onyl place i have seen the other links is here mostly by people wanting to paint this guy as a heart broken confused gay man not that the Islamic terrorist that he truly was.

Here's one of many:

Security Firm Moved Mateen After Al Qaeda Boast, But Didn't Fire Him

Is your Google broken???

Fair enough, I had not seen that. At the end of the day though, his boasts of Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda were years ago, maybe when he finally took the step to radicalize officially he went with ISIS.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Walt Disney Co. is a participating partner behind Family Outfest, a week-long event for gay, lesbian and transgender families set for this summer.

Family Outfest is set to take place in Orlando, home to popular family attractions including the iconic Disney World, Epcot, Sea World and Universal Studios, during the first week of July.

Thank you for adding this -- and saving me the trouble. I was sure I had heard something about this and was going to look it up if (when) I had replied to all the comments.

If I remember correctly, Disney was also one of the first corporations to extend employee benefits to same sex partners -- long before others jumped on board.

It occurs to me that if he was really working with ISIS, the target may have been Disney, but he went rogue for his own vengeful purposes. What are they gonna do to him when he's dead and gone? And he may have figured that ISIS would get over it since the death and mayham was the real goal anyway.

a reply to: Gryphon66

My issue is the MSM pushing a 'gay revenge' narrative to sway the minds of, to be honest, simple people with a herd mentality. Part of my post was sarcastic based on the fact that being a gay shooter in the case of Elliot Rodgers caused the government to not talk about a gun ban but how hard it is on gays in the US. However, a Muslim who followed extremist views does the same thing and it becomes a 'gun control' issue.

I think the wife is guilty also as well as the brother. Signed over his house a few months earlier. At no time has anyone in the 'family' said he was gay or had tendencies. Is it out of pride, not sure, but this was not a revenge on a threesome gone bad. You do shoot 100 people screaming Allah Ackbar to 'cover up' your threesome. I mean, do you not agree that is beyond extreme?

originally posted by: maybee
Haven't read all the posts but I'm wondering if HIV/AIDS would be present, post-mortum ? Would he have been tested during the autopsy or would it even still be present.

I wondered the same!

He has already been buried apparently, and without an autopsy performed. I would assume because the cause of death is already known.

I believe the HIV virus would show up post-mortem with proper testing, but I'm not sure if that would be checked.

a reply to: SM2

Now,comes the the spin to make it PC and politically expedient .the politicians need to alter the backdrop so they can accomplish their agenda, so now he is no longer a terrorist, but an angry gay minority man that had aids/hiv and was so distraught he had to get vengeance against all the people in the gay bar.

We knew the spin was coming... that's just par for the course. What I don't understand is why you believe this is the "spin" from government... and why you feel the need to separate the issues. Nor do I understand why you think the govt would prefer to deny jihad over angry homosexual. It seems both would go against the Obama White House's preferred narrative.

But, again, it's not an either/or situation. It can be both.

originally posted by: SM2
a reply to: Boadicea

is there actually any evidence that he was in fact gay?

I haven't seen any pics of him in compromising situations and I don't expect to... not sure what more you want or expect.

...or we can chose to believe he is scorned gay dude that got infected with HIV and did all this get even with the guy that infected him. Which leaves out the rest of the evidence such as disney and the FBI investigations, his violent attitude towards other in the past, like his ex wife.

Or we can understand that this isn't an either/or situation... that it can be both.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Gryphon66

My issue is the MSM pushing a 'gay revenge' narrative to sway the minds of, to be honest, simple people with a herd mentality. Part of my post was sarcastic based on the fact that being a gay shooter in the case of Elliot Rodgers caused the government to not talk about a gun ban but how hard it is on gays in the US. However, a Muslim who followed extremist views does the same thing and it becomes a 'gun control' issue.

I think the wife is guilty also as well as the brother. Signed over his house a few months earlier. At no time has anyone in the 'family' said he was gay or had tendencies. Is it out of pride, not sure, but this was not a revenge on a threesome gone bad. You do shoot 100 people screaming Allah Ackbar to 'cover up' your threesome. I mean, do you not agree that is beyond extreme?

The "MSM" is reporting on the "gay lover's" disclosures, the same way it has reported on all the other information, the terrorist angle, etc. etc.

And there's an easy explanation for that. At this point in time, the American media is a consumer product, and sometimes, consumers or "simple honest people with a herd mentality" on the Right are swayed by their own versions of the MSM as well.

And while we're being honest, you're expressing your opinion. You're pretending you have knowledge that you don't have. You have no information as to the veracity of the claim of the lover. You have your belief. And to be fair, you have some evidence, but the "evidence" for RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORIST(TM) grows smaller every day and therefore, again, just in all honesty, it doesn't fit your own political narrative as well, if this horrible tragedy is a hate crime rather than international terrorism.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: maybee
Haven't read all the posts but I'm wondering if HIV/AIDS would be present, post-mortum ? Would he have been tested during the autopsy or would it even still be present.

I wondered the same!

He has already been buried apparently, and without an autopsy performed. I would assume because the cause of death is already known.

I believe the HIV virus would show up post-mortem with proper testing, but I'm not sure if that would be checked.

I'm shocked there was no autopsy/toxicology if for no other reason than to test for drug use and any medical conditions that could have triggered this shooting.

Charles Whitman (who shot 49, killed 16, from the University of Texas clock tower) had a brain tumor that the Connelly Commission theorized might have triggered that shooting. We should always be seriously looking at the physiology of mass-shooters for clues on how to possibly prevent them -- especially in this case where motive is not clear.

originally posted by: SM2
a reply to: Boadicea

what information makes you think this? I am seriously asking, not trying to flame you. I want to know. I saw the maker of the gay hook up app could not confirm it was indeed his account. Are there any eyewitnesses close to him that can support the theory?

My original comment that you are responding to:

I definitely agree. I think Islam was more of his father's religion, not his. He only used Islam (and Islamic terrorism) as an excuse/justification for his personal revenge, and in the process, making his father and faith feel that he had redeemed himself.

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, because the question of whether or not he was gay is separate from whether or not he was a pious Muslim. So forgive me if I miss your point, but...

Loads of people have come out of the woodwork -- from childhood schoolmates to Pulse patrons -- stating that he was gay. Maybe they're all just lying liars... maybe the govt got them all to say it... maybe the mass murderer had a Doppleganger... anything is possible. But Occam's Razor says that where there's smoke there's fire.

As for the religion aspect, devout Muslims are not gay... the gunman was born into the religion; not converted. So it would seem that he was not a devout Muslim like his father.

a reply to: Gryphon66

how is evidence that he was a radical islamic terrorist growing smaller?

the 911 call has not been debunked
the fbi investigation were real
none of the people speaking of him has been debunked at least to my knowledge.
the reports that he was a devout muslim that prayed several times a day has not been debunked

noneof the evidence that it was islamic terrorism has been debunked. The presence of one person saying he was gay guy still in the closet and the presence of an app on his phone does not change any of that. they can both be easily explained away. It seems that the hate crime angle is more suited for a political agenda. like i said you are not going to convince anyone to give up their guns in the face of ISIS attacking American soil, but you can pull the heart strings of people by claiming it as a hate crime against gay people

a reply to: Boadicea

I was asking what evidence do you have that he was gay. Thats pretty simple. Where is it? what is the basis of your argument that he was gay?