Pulse Nightclub Shooter Spurned by Boyfriends, ‘Did it for Revenge’

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Gryphon66

What I have is 'inside' information. This is an active investigation. I was 'advised' by people in LE to not attend anything in an open soft target area till after the 4th in Orlando or the Tampa area. I guess that is why the 'spurned lover' angle to me seems ludicrous. The level of security at parks is off the chain and reinforced by local and state LEO's.

This is also not a political narrative either.

Inside information that you, of course, can't share or substantiate. I understand.

Perhaps time will tell.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I hope it is nothing but please check your U2U.

a reply to: matafuchs

"Being" gay is not forbidden in Islam. The act of sodomy, be it between two males, or between male and female, is forbidden.

a reply to: Boadicea

I thought some thing like this might be the case. However I thought the shooter might have been a secert gay and seen his partner with a different person and then flipped out. Also the whole thing about claiming to be ISIS in the 911 call seems like it was more for shock value then anything else. I mean what real terrorists calls 911 and makes claims?

a reply to: SM2

Actually, I do understand what you're saying, I'm just not agreeing with you. That's the difference.

Who is not telling the truth? Empty question at this point. You don't know and neither do I.

I'm not suggesting a "narrative" ... I'm participating in a thread that is discussing real evidence that supports a different or at least supplementary explanation besides RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM(TM) which is what you, many others here, the Right Wing media as well as presumptive nominee Donald J. Trump is pushing. You don't understand why Trump gets brought into it when you've been accusing me for pages now about being POLITICAL? LOL. That's just ... rich.

As is your apparently poor memory of what you're trying to argue:

originally posted by: SM2
a reply to: Gryphon66
*snipped*

The presence of one person saying he was gay guy still in the closet and the presence of an app on his phone does not change any of that. they can both be easily explained away. It seems that the hate crime angle is more suited for a political agenda. like i said you are not going to convince anyone to give up their guns in the face of ISIS attacking American soil, but you can pull the heart strings of people by claiming it as a hate crime against gay people

Nope, you've not tried to deny anything about the fact that LGBT folks were targeted here. You just say that no one can prove he was gay, not the gay apps on his phone, not any of the personal testimony that counters your claims ... and not only that you tip your hand. You aren't trying to review the facts ... you're DESPERATELY trying to EASILY EXPLAIN IT AWAY.

You're a hypocrite of the first order, whining about making this political while you intimate that the deaths and critical injuries of 100 LGBT Americans is irrelevant beside someone threatening your gun collection.

You're looking at it with an "open mind" while you're busy trying to "EASILY EXPLAIN THE EVIDENCE AWAY."

We're done.

a reply to: sHuRuLuNi

Being gay is not forbidden because Islamic scholars believe all people to be heterosexual so in affect, they do not believe in it. You are correct. However, it is considered deviant behavior by the rules of the Quran so it is not allowed and shunned. Death is only opposed by militants but in Saudi you can do time or be beaten. Not just sodomy. It is the attraction of another male and/or female based on gender. The Islamic story is based, if I remember correctly, on Sodom and Gomorrah.

originally posted by: sHuRuLuNi
a reply to: matafuchs

"Being" gay is not forbidden in Islam. The act of sodomy, be it between two males, or between male and female, is forbidden.

Yeah, but I think to most Religious Fundamentalists they may as well be the same thing. Sodomy is anal or oral sex which is pretty much assumed to be happening in any romantic relationship. I'm sure they'd have no problem including hand jobs in there too if they really needed to add it to the list.

So unless you're a devout virgin homosexual, you'll be a target.

originally posted by: sHuRuLuNi
a reply to: matafuchs

"Being" gay is not forbidden in Islam. The act of sodomy, be it between two males, or between male and female, is forbidden.

It's not forbidden in Christianity either. In Christianity, man is considered a "sinner", and he is "allowed" to sin.

The only real problem between Christians and Gays is that Christians want to call something a "sin", implicating it is "bad", and Gays want to call those same things "good".

So, it's really about "language."

Gays want to change the meaning of the language that people have been using for thousands of years to distinguish between "good" and "evil", and to "reverse" the meanings of the terms we use in everyday dialog.

So, it's not really about the "actions" of gays at all, that most of the disagreements are about.

I will say this, while we're all doing our regular bits of passionately defending our positions, beliefs and arguments:

Everyone needs to do the most to remain safe at all times, no matter where you are, because whether it's terrorists, mass-murderers, militias, eco-warriors, or whatever ... there are those folks in society who can and will do us harm.

Especially if you're anywhere in these areas that have been indicated to be "under threat" (Florida, et. al. )... just ... be safe, keep your eyes and ears open.

And in the final analysis, remember that we're all Americans, first and foremost. Look out for each other.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

And in the final analysis, remember that we're all Americans, first and foremost.

Actually, we are not.

originally posted by: sHuRuLuNi

originally posted by: Gryphon66

And in the final analysis, remember that we're all Americans, first and foremost.

Actually, we are not.

Really?

Care to explain?

Okay, I have to award myself a great big "DUUUH" ... I'm very very mistaken. All ATSers are not Americans.

I was thinking of the people that may be in the areas that have been listed as possibly under terrorist threat (Florida, etc.)

But your point is well taken.

Let's all look out after each other as members of Humanity!

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: sHuRuLuNi

originally posted by: Gryphon66

And in the final analysis, remember that we're all Americans, first and foremost.

Actually, we are not.

Really?

Care to explain?

Well, I am Albanian

And I am sure there are many ATS members who aren't American either.

originally posted by: sHuRuLuNi

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: sHuRuLuNi

originally posted by: Gryphon66

And in the final analysis, remember that we're all Americans, first and foremost.

Actually, we are not.

Really?

Care to explain?

Well, I am Albanian

And I am sure there are many ATS members who aren't American either.

Yes. You have my apology. See above.

I was referring to folks who are currently in possible threat zones, but even then, your point is well taken.

a reply to: Gryphon66

no i am not saying gay folks were not targeted, that is obvious. I am saying that I do not think he himself was gay. I am saying that the PTB can more easily sway people if they push the he was gay and he was taking revenge on other gay people for giving him HIV angle . That is what I am saying. To my recollection, i never mentioned you being of any political leaning, nor have i stated mine, which to be honest, is libertarian. Saying that an app and one dude plus a rumor of him having HIV can be easily explained away, well that it true. those are not facts, if this were in court, none of that would be admissible. They are unsubstantiated rumor and here say. A third party account from his ex wife's current fiancee is not really the benchmark for credibility. I am far from claiming that the poor folks that were killed or injured is irrelevant, quite the opposite actually. You really need to stop putting words in peoples mouths. I think this a horrible heinous act perpetrated by an animal that deserved to be put down.

originally posted by: SM2
I think this a horrible heinous act perpetrated by an animal that deserved to be put down.

The second he decided to kill Americans for whatever reason, I absolutely agree with you.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
A "long history of terror"? He read a few websites and listened to a few videos, but anyone who was trying to set up a COVER motivation would have done that much research to pull it off...

I said a long history of support of terror......IT just goes to show how you guys constantly manipulate words as a tool of deflection.

And others seem determined to pin this on Islam... Disturbing, indeed.

Gee I wonder if it's because a Muslim who attended a radical mosque and pledged intelligence to an Islamic extremist terrorist group and was carrying out what is ordering in the Quran has anything to do with it?

Naaa, it's Trump's fault!

Given all the information we have so far, it looks like this mass shooting was far more about his personal life, his sexuality, and the shame of his religion and family than terrorism.

No, that's just what you're manufacturing now after we already have audio of him pledging his alligence to ISIS, but which the public cannot hear because your government is censoring it, so that people like you are free to make up your own story.

a reply to: Gryphon66

well at least on that we can agree.

originally posted by: defiythelie
a reply to: Boadicea

I thought some thing like this might be the case. However I thought the shooter might have been a secert gay and seen his partner with a different person and then flipped out. Also the whole thing about claiming to be ISIS in the 911 call seems like it was more for shock value then anything else. I mean what real terrorists calls 911 and makes claims?

After the claims about him being gay came out, I started thinking along this lines too. So many possible scenarios that could have been playing out. I also wondered if someone was about to out him and he chose to go out on his own terms.

I always got the feeling that invoking "ISIS" on the 911 call was more about bravado... trying to seem bigger and badder than he really was. I've even wondered if ISIS had actually passed him over for another terrorist act and he wanted "to show them" that he was really up to the job. I don't know.

a reply to: Annee

No, I don't think everything has come out yet either and it's a cautionary tale with multiple warnings;

1) THIS is why gay people have fought for equality over the years. Marrying a woman AND sleeping with men behind her back is very wrong. He should have been able to be open and honest about who he is and live that life. He also may have given her HIV too if he actually had it, which is criminal because given the culture, she would have had little say in marrying him and was just a chattel really.

2) Religious pressure to conform to heterosexuality is dangerous because

3) Radical Islam and Christianity it must be added infects people's brains then causes all logic and rational thinking to go out the window.

I hope that people can learn from this.

I speculated as much days ago.. He was also bullied by the snickering sewing circles at Pulse. This has less to do with religion and more to do with a mentally imbalanced LGBT member. The LGBT think they are immune from the human condition and they do play like they are "above it all."

The truth is, this guy was bullied and humiliated by his peers at Pulse and Religion was the excuse he used. Deep down we all know why he did what he did. When I say we, I mean everyone including the LGBT even if they deny it..

He decided if they wouldn't love him, they wouldn't love anyone.