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Pulse Nightclub Shooter Spurned by Boyfriends, ‘Did it for Revenge’

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posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 01:27 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

So the PTB finally made up a story they thought might get some traction. I can't say I am surprised.

Cheers - Dave




posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 02:38 AM
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originally posted by: gps777
a reply to: daaskapital


The thing most people can`t grasp is that Muslims are to follow the Quran and Mohamad's example and teachings, so it has little to do with the "average Muslim" for what ever that is, but a Muslim is defined by what their books says.

Its like the same can be said for a Christian..."and you CALL yourself a Christian, Christ didn`t say or do that" type argument.

This video is titled "Top Ten Quran Verses for Understanding ISIS (the Islamic State) " but it has nothing to do with ISIS really because its just plain Islam you either follow the book and teachings or you don`t, take particular notice to #10 and how the Quran actually is to be interpreted when there are contradictions.



Thank you for your reply.

Unfortunately, the video you shared is biased and lacks a lot of context.

You and others may very well say that Muslims are required to follow the Quran and Muhammad's teachings, however the statement is extremely broad and neglects Islam's history of different interpretations, debates, laws and events. Even the particular verse you requested me to pay attention to, on abrogation, is heavily disputed within Islam:

www.answering-islam.org...

goo.gl...

It's like judging Christianity on the basis of secluded and violent verses, and the very extreme and violent militias in Africa. It's an absurd analysis of Christianity to people who know the religion or its history. Similarly, it is pretty absurd to critique Islam while ignoring much of its history.

edit on 22-6-2016 by daaskapital because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 03:48 AM
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a reply to: daaskapital


The history of Mohamad after he gained a small following in ten years was brutal from that point on.

read about this Islamic massacre backed by their own books.

The same happened in Lebanon to the Christians there in the 70`s as per Mohamad's example.

The whole ME was made up of Christian Jewish and pagan who were slaughtered in the way of Mohamad.

Sometimes people have fought back, crusades, taking back and giving safe passage to the Holy lands, but I`m not aware of what's going on in Africa and why.

I`m unfamiliar with these verses that could be violent that Christ spoke of.

But the Quran makes it clear, all non believers are Kafirs and to be slain, Jews and Christians or the people of the book are to be made Dhimmies only if they stop resisting, if not kill them. Then they are supposed to pay Jizya of half their income or be made to live in filth as in Pakistan today.

This is history of Islam
Why We Are Afraid, A 1400 Year Secret, by Dr Bill Warner


Its estimated that 590 million non-Muslims have been slaughtered by Muslims since 622 which doesn`t included Muslim vs Muslim and this doesn`t include the women/wives of the slaughtered men taken and raped as sex slaves or forced to marry as per their books and Mohamad's example.






edit on 22-6-2016 by gps777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 04:50 AM
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originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Boadicea
I wonder how many other ISIS supporters / potential terrorists are in fact closet gay alcoholic infidels?

Based on personal observations, you accidentally forgot the terms ... Pedo and goat f*cker ... belong to this list.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 04:55 AM
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When reading through the posts, there seem to be only two options.
One is that he was just an average, westernised muslim who was gay and mentally ill and did everything because of that, and the other one is that he was an isis supporter and a hardcore muslim and did all the murdering for that reason.

Those that are desperately wanting the terrorist sc&m to be a deranged gay, are so adamant about it because the very idea that there could be a violent muslim drives them nuts.

The other ones want him to have done this only for islam in order to show how dangerous islam really is.

Why can't it be both?

He was clearly a muslim, with a hardcore dad and he was clearly gay. I can't but help to think that had he grown up in a gay-accepting, non religious family and had he been able to be who he clearly was, he wouldn't have had so much stored up anger. He'd probably live with a boyfriend somewhere.
Instead he must have struggled against his religion and his 'strictly against gay' family his whole life. He was torn between two completely opposing life styles.

Others in similar situations take to suicide or break up from their families, but BECAUSE of islam he couldn't do this. Because of islam he must have felt like the worst of the worst unless he'd somehow 'make his sins go away'.
Well, he is promised forgiveness and paradise for doing away with infidels, plus he would look like a hero to his dad, instead of a 'disappointment' to the family.

I think the fact that he was a muslim has to be taken into consideration coupled with the fact that he was gay and it gave him a 'sort of way out' AND keep his face [in some warped religious people's mind].

In this case islam has helped to create this monster. How many others are in turmoil and live life between religious ideals and their true inner feelings?

So no, it cannot be ignored. All aspects have to be taken into consideration.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 05:12 AM
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a reply to: gps777

Yes, Islam has a violent history. So does every religion. That, i am not denying. That said, you are selecting specific examples and opinions of Islamic history, while ignoring others.

Muhammad had led wars, but he also had a good relationship with some religions like Christianity. A Christian king in modern-day Africa even harboured his people when they were being persecuted by polytheists, and he had made treaties with Christians, swearing to protect them.

Regarding the jizya, it was simply a tax applied to non-Muslims. It has had many interpretations and variants throughout history, although it generally only applied to sane and fit males. It excluded those who could not afford it, were physically or mentally ill, and those who were undertaking military service. Those who paid it did not have to fulfill certain obligations expected of Muslims.

Many of the quotes from the Quran were written during times of warfare, and applied to such. Other teachings applied during other periods and contexts.

These are things you have neglected to mention, and these are things which have been debated throughout Islam's history. In fact, i doubt you knew much of this, as you seem to be following a very linear line of thought.

For a long time, Muslims, Christians and Jews coexisted under Islamic states and lived relatively peacefully. There was also a time when the Muslim World was the centre of knowledge, and receptive to foreign ideas. No one would believe this by the way some of you talk about the religion.

You may call me an Islam apologist, but i'm not. I'm merely countering a frankly one-sided view of history. Anyone can point out the negative aspects of religion and history, but it does no one any good to half-arse it. If you're going to do it, do it right.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 05:29 AM
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a reply to: DanteGaland

Yes because them drafting up laws on gun control would have a hard time substituting the no-fly list to a list of gay's that are not allowed to buy guns . Trump might have a better chance of selling his fence if the story is true because of the Latino connection ...just sayin ..



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 05:29 AM
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This is similar to my original theory, which was one possibly supported by the information in this thread too on several levels.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 06:12 AM
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originally posted by: daaskapital



Yes, Islam has a violent history. So does every religion. That, i am not denying. That said, you are selecting specific examples and opinions of Islamic history, while ignoring others.


I`m quoting Islamic verses and who and what Mohamad did. He could have painted fluffy bunnies as a hobby in his spare time, that doesn`t discount the atrocities he has committed and taught.



Muhammad had led wars, but he also had a good relationship with some religions like Christianity. A Christian king in modern-day Africa even harboured his people when they were being persecuted by polytheists, and he had made treaties with Christians, swearing to protect them.

This is a bit confusing to me, Mohamad was in modern-day Africa?



Regarding the jizya, it was simply a tax applied to non-Muslims. It has had many interpretations and variants throughout history, although it generally only applied to sane and fit males. It excluded those who could not afford it, were physically or mentally ill, and those who were undertaking military service. Those who paid it did not have to fulfill certain obligations expected of Muslims.

Wrong. It was far from just a simple tax.


Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."


Not sure if your also aware but the Nazi`s in WW11 didn`t come up with the yellow star Jews were forced to wear, this came from Islam and was a type of receipt that they had paid their tax just to stay alive, which financed Islam.



Many of the quotes from the Quran were written during times of warfare, and applied to such. Other teachings applied during other periods and contexts.

Umm that's because it was mostly at war, killing and conquering would cease for a time after they had finished killing and conquering and the area taken over.



These are things you have neglected to mention, and these are things which have been debated throughout Islam's history. In fact, i doubt you knew much of this, as you seem to be following a very linear line of thought.


If what you believe of the religion isn`t inline with the Quran and history, then of coarse I will disagree. My line of thought on Mohamad as a false prophet by biblical standards of a prophet a murdering raping paedophile who his followers quote and emulate yes I agree I have linear line of thought.




You may call me an Islam apologist, but i'm not. I'm merely countering a frankly one-sided view of history. Anyone can point out the negative aspects of religion and history, but it does no one any good to half-arse it. If you're going to do it, do it right.


Good then, I look foreword to you posting more than "all religions have violent histories" and have a balanced view then on Islam.

Now care to show where Christ instructed any of his followers to do anything of the sort.


Indeed. Many Muslim terrorists do not have a history of high religious adherence. It makes one wonder how they can be used as legitimate examples of the average Muslim...

But really I was only responding to you and a couple of others who were scratching your heads on the above quote. Its like Jihadists also like to recruit from jails because a person who thinks that all their bad deeds will be wiped clean by dying a martyr taking out infidels lives for their god Allah and furthering the cause of Islam are people they use, same as the others that go out drinking etc before they go boom, it doesn`t matter what they get up to as they believe all will be forgive for their act.
edit on 22-6-2016 by gps777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 06:44 AM
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originally posted by: gps777
originally posted by: daaskapital

I`m quoting Islamic verses and who and what Mohamad did. He could have painted fluffy bunnies as a hobby in his spare time, that doesn`t discount the atrocities he has committed and taught.


You shared biased information without much context.

No one here denies the atrocities committed by Muhammad. You are selectively considering specific texts and historical events however.


This is a bit confusing to me, Mohamad was in modern-day Africa?


Let me clarify.

I meant that at the time of Muhammad, a Christian king from what is now modern-day Africa, protected Muhammad's people. I am specifically referring to Ashama ibn-Abjar, or King Negus of Abyssinnia, who protected and allowed followers of Muhammad to migrate to his lands.

Relations between Muslims and Christians were quite cordial during Muhammad's time.



Wrong. It was far from just a simple tax.


Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."


Not sure if your also aware but the Nazi`s in WW11 didn`t come up with the yellow star Jews were forced to wear, this came from Islam and was a type of receipt that they had paid their tax just to stay alive, which financed Islam.


As i said, the jizya has had many interpretations throughout history. Many times, those who paid jizya were exempt from the obligations expected of Muslims, like military service.



Umm that's because it was mostly at war, killing and conquering would cease for a time after they had finished killing and conquering and the area taken over.


Islam has had many periods of conflict and peace, just like every other religion. The Quran was authored over different periods of relations. You are selectively quoting specific texts written at specific times for specific audiences, rather than considering everything.



If what you believe of the religion isn`t inline with the Quran and history, then of coarse I will disagree. My line of thought on Mohamad as a false prophet by biblical standards of a prophet a murdering raping paedophile who his followers quote and emulate yes I agree I have linear line of thought.


You aren't considering the full history of the religion, and the many interpretations and debates over its time. As i said earlier, it's like looking at Christianity based on violent verses, violent history and extreme militias. It's illogical.

You wouldn't appreciate people casting aspersions on your character and your religion based on nutjobs who run around putting people on stakes and murdering innocents. Why are you so quick to fall in line and do so for 1.8 billion people?



Good then, I look foreword to you posting more than "all religions have violent histories" and have a balanced view then on Islam.

Now care to show where Christ instructed any of his followers to do anything of the sort.


I don't want to get into an argument of Christianity vs Islam. Both books have violent verses, and both books have been wielded to do good and evil.

I believe i have provided a balanced perspective of Islam based on my counterpoints to your arguments. Some of what you say is correct, yet that is also true for my words. Religion is neither peaceful or evil. It is what people make of it.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 06:46 AM
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So we're going to go along with the government and the media and their censorship of Islam's connection to this mass murder, his long history of open support for Islamic Terror and settle on third-hand information from somebody who may have not even actually known this guy? You all seemed most determined to stick your heads in the sand. It's disturbing.
edit on 22-6-2016 by TheBulk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 07:14 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Evidence keeps piling on that he was gay, from gay dating apps on his phone to witnesses claiming he was a club regular. Perhaps his so called alligence to IS was just a cover to keep the world from learning that he was a homosexual.
edit on 22-6-2016 by Swills because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 07:18 AM
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a reply to: Swills

So now the muslim community has another reason to protest against this type of violence and condemn the shooters actions?

When that happens please let me know; I have yet to see any muslim community leaders condemn any of this.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 07:20 AM
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originally posted by: IAMTAT
Then why did he kill women?


The ISIS allegiance was his COVER. An ISIS killer wouldn't just pick out men - they'd kill everyone. Remember, he was trying to HIDE the fact of his sexuality.


originally posted by: TheBulk
So we're going to go along with the government and the media and their censorship of Islam's connection to this mass murder, his long history of open support for Islamic Terror


A "long history of terror"? He read a few websites and listened to a few videos, but anyone who was trying to set up a COVER motivation would have done that much research to pull it off...



You all seemed most determined to stick your heads in the sand. It's disturbing.


And others seem determined to pin this on Islam... Disturbing, indeed.

Given all the information we have so far, it looks like this mass shooting was far more about his personal life, his sexuality, and the shame of his religion and family than terrorism.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 07:23 AM
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posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 07:32 AM
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a reply to: BoadiceaHold up, So the government refuses to call terrorist attacks terrorist attacks and shortly after that the FBI announces that they will edit the 911 calls and remove any references of ISIS that were made by the mass murderer and now that all that has been said and done all of a sudden this is pushed forward and we have to just forget about those records and that is was just a muslim who needed cuddles and hugs and now we just accept the story that comes out after all that?



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 07:35 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: mOjOm

Aw shucks -- thanks!

But thanks more for seeing it as the bombshell it really is -- with all its inherent inferences and implications. I couldn't believe how casually they just dropped it at the end. Sheesh!


Well, so far that is the most solid Motive I've heard yet. His ties to ISIS are weak at best. Hitting a gay nightclub seems pretty specific for one thing.



He was on record saying it himself, they even had to edit out all the praise to ISIS and Islamic references and prayers, and islam is not exactly cheering homosexuality on to put it lightly ,Pretty hard to call that weak evidence.


edit on America/ChicagovAmerica/ChicagoWed, 22 Jun 2016 07:36:07 -05001620166America/Chicago by everyone because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 07:44 AM
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I have no idea what Mr. Mateen felt, thought, believed or was attracted to.

However, in the process of accepting (or understanding) that one is attracted to one's own sex (and it's a process that is relatively easy for some and almost impossible for others) particularly if one is male, there is a certain issue that by accepting ones' preferences, one will become "less than" male ... not a "real" man.

There is a certain iconography in our culture of what it means to be a strong man. Do you remember all those "selfies" in which Mateen had on an NYPD shirt? Cops are strong. Cops are sexy.

Who do you think he was making those pictures for? or why?

The image he wanted to project of himself was of a strong man. The image he was terrified of was a weak or effeminate man. This would also have been strongly reinforced by his parent's cultures and from Islam in general.

The images he saw around him at the clubs were of other gay men. He would have been both attracted and repelled at the same time in this theory. After a while, that conflict became too much for him to bear.

Ultimately, in his mind, the solution was to destroy all those images ... both of the others and of himself.

EDIT: I hesitate to add this, as I'm aware of the ridicule that the term is going to prompt, but in the most real forensic sense of the word, something TRIGGERED Mateen. Some event, something happened. Perhaps his marriage was failing (again). Perhaps he found out that he had contracted HIV. Perhaps he was mistreated by a lover.

There was some event or happening that started a collapse of his personality. Something "broke" him.
edit on 22-6-2016 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 07:45 AM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Then why did he kill women?


The ISIS allegiance was his COVER. An ISIS killer wouldn't just pick out men - they'd kill everyone. Remember, he was trying to HIDE the fact of his sexuality.



A cover to what end? He did not need to give anyone any reason at any time for anything. It is not like he would expect to shoot up a nightclub, kill 50 people and walk out alive now is it? And ISIS would not target a gay club specifically you say ? Really? How would you know that so well exactly because all info and logic says otherwise. There is only one thing a Islamic extremist hates more then a infidel and that is a homosexual infidel. Killing 50 gay people instead of just 50 random people sounds like a very preferable idea for a Islamic extremist terrorist attack, There is no denying that.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 07:47 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
I have no idea what Mr. Mateen felt, thought, believed or was attracted to.



So it is Mr. Mateen now i see.
Do you want to kiss his bloody boots that he wore that night as well while you are at it?



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