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Gender roles and the effects of shifting these roles on modern day society.

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posted on May, 31 2016 @ 09:20 AM
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originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad
. . . fanatical feminists . . .


BTW, how many fanatical feminists do you know today?


A majority of them. Feminists in today's society (as in the current generation) has taken a GOOD thing and ran with it. When we needed feminism, it helped to heal our society. We have some of the best laws in the world when it comes to protecting women's rights.


Can you name one, and explain how she has negatively affected today's society.

This is coming off like a school term paper.




posted on May, 31 2016 @ 09:36 AM
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a reply to: Annee




People like Chanty Binx, for example are hurting society. They cannot control their tempers long enough and refuse to listen to reason or evidence.
edit on 31-5-2016 by SomeDumbBroad because: Link was broken



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 09:45 AM
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originally posted by: SaturnFX

I find the genital discussion, when discussing trans people, part of the subject, not the full subject, but when discussing the person, and the discussion of the person is their activism in the trans community..its pretty relevant to discuss.


Why?

They are a person. They are not their body parts.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 09:48 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SaturnFX

I find the genital discussion, when discussing trans people, part of the subject, not the full subject, but when discussing the person, and the discussion of the person is their activism in the trans community..its pretty relevant to discuss.


Why?

They are a person. They are not their body parts.



So are boys and girls not born with different sexual genitalia? I'm confused... I'm pretty sure we have different genetic makeup t determine our sex as human beings.

In addition to that, humans are human, YES.... but look at the different medical problems each gender has. Women are more prone to autoimmune disease, for example.... does someone choosing to "identify" with another gender change that genetic predisposition?
edit on 31-5-2016 by SomeDumbBroad because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 09:48 AM
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a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

umm... I went to college in TX in the 80's because I was kind of sick of being shuffled into the restaurant/fast food industies.. told that I wasn't "qualified" for any office jobs even though I did alot of office type work as a library aide. so I went to college, got an associates degree in data procession thinking that I'd be at least able to get something outside of the restaurant area...which I hated. well, I started out applying for accounting clerks, ect and when I was still being told that I wasn't qualified I went applying for factory positions, which didn't work out either... my husband finally clued me in, as long as there was so many men out of work, the companies would take those men over the women, because well, the men had families to support, the women had men supporting families.. so I decided to increase the family size instead. really only wanted one child, but ended up with three.

and settled down to be a full time mom, since obviously that was what was expected of me from the texan society. I reentered the labor market when the kids were old enough to be in school for the most part and learned about the screen printing business. I watched men get hired, doing the same danged job that I was doing as a stand in till they hired someone for a higher wage than I was getting, screw the company over, and leave...just to be back at that job again standing too many times. not only could I do that job more efficiently than them, but I could run most of the machines, had one of the best attendance records even if I was limping around the shop at the end and was usually one of the last ones out of the shop because I also know quite a bit about the shipping aspect of it....

there is no way anyone is going to tell me that there isn't a wage gap or a bias towards women in the workforce. my experience just doesn't jive with it.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 09:52 AM
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originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

So are boys and girls not born with different sexual genitalia? I'm confused... I'm pretty sure we have different genetic makeup t determine our sex as human beings.


Are you saying that who we are should be determined predominantly by genitalia? Genitalia governs sex, nothing more.


originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad
does someone choosing to "identify" with another gender change that genetic predisposition?

Since when has genetic disposition been a relevant factor?
edit on 31-5-2016 by ReprobateRaccoon because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 09:57 AM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

umm... I went to college in TX in the 80's because I was kind of sick of being shuffled into the restaurant/fast food industies.. told that I wasn't "qualified" for any office jobs even though I did alot of office type work as a library aide. so I went to college, got an associates degree in data procession thinking that I'd be at least able to get something outside of the restaurant area...which I hated. well, I started out applying for accounting clerks, ect and when I was still being told that I wasn't qualified I went applying for factory positions, which didn't work out either... my husband finally clued me in, as long as there was so many men out of work, the companies would take those men over the women, because well, the men had families to support, the women had men supporting families.. so I decided to increase the family size instead. really only wanted one child, but ended up with three.

and settled down to be a full time mom, since obviously that was what was expected of me from the texan society. I reentered the labor market when the kids were old enough to be in school for the most part and learned about the screen printing business. I watched men get hired, doing the same danged job that I was doing as a stand in till they hired someone for a higher wage than I was getting, screw the company over, and leave...just to be back at that job again standing too many times. not only could I do that job more efficiently than them, but I could run most of the machines, had one of the best attendance records even if I was limping around the shop at the end and was usually one of the last ones out of the shop because I also know quite a bit about the shipping aspect of it....

there is no way anyone is going to tell me that there isn't a wage gap or a bias towards women in the workforce. my experience just doesn't jive with it.




in the 80 women still had to fight for the right to be accepted into the same workplaces as men. You have this wonderful thing called Affirmative action behind you now. ( NWLC Website ). Women have every advantage and are even being hired at a faster rate than men because employers are too afraid of getting sued. I understand your frustration in your generations time period and I am not undermining that there was a certain oppression then, but if that kind of bias still existed, please explain to me how I came work in a Welding factory (as a welder) when I actually applied for a secretarial position?




posted on May, 31 2016 @ 10:00 AM
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originally posted by: ReprobateRaccoon

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

So are boys and girls not born with different sexual genitalia? I'm confused... I'm pretty sure we have different genetic makeup t determine our sex as human beings.


Are you saying that who we are should be determined predominantly by genitalia? Genitalia governs sex, nothing more.


Not at all, I am saying we are predetermined by genetics which decipher our genitalia in general cases (not including hermaphrodites).



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 10:00 AM
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double post
edit on 31-5-2016 by SomeDumbBroad because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 10:02 AM
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Since when has genetic disposition been a relevant factor?



This is the point in the conversation where I stare slack jawed at my screen because you just asked if science is a relevant factor.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 10:15 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SaturnFX

I find the genital discussion, when discussing trans people, part of the subject, not the full subject, but when discussing the person, and the discussion of the person is their activism in the trans community..its pretty relevant to discuss.


Why?

They are a person. They are not their body parts.

...the subject is the body parts.
When you are discussing trans issues, you are discussing body parts
If I am discussing baseball, I imagine some discussion of baseball is gonna come up...you know..when discussing baseball.
how is this confusing to anyone.

If I was sharing a recipe that initially came from a trans person, I wouldn't be bringing up anything like that, as its not part of the discussion, or any other subject..but when we are discussing transitioning, it is bound to come up in order to understand the perspective of the person talking
in this case, Blaires genitals on or off would perhaps be indicative of the subject on transitioning and the perspectives therefore pushed forward.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 10:40 AM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
there is no way anyone is going to tell me that there isn't a wage gap or a bias towards women in the workforce. my experience just doesn't jive with it.



aka, it snowed a lot last year at my house, therefore global warming is a lie.

Your story, of which I am skeptical about in the first place, matters little. The wage gap myth is fully debunked by every analytical team that researched it.

Consider what you are saying:
"I think we should pay women less, and hire just men anyhow because muahahahaha".

Companies pinch pennies, and I guarantee you that if you qualified for the positions, you would be hired in..but either you weren't qualified, or you were disliked as a individual. Companies build teams, and if you were disruptive, rude, etc..then yeah, they tend to overlook for someone they feel will fit the company better.

myths of 3rd wave feminism
pay gap vs earnings gap

1963 equal pay act made it illegal to pay different though. the person you should be most angry at is your husband telling you to give up, that your gender mattered


In saying all that, this is the 80s you are discussing..there could have very well been some upper managment pensioners that seen women as loose cannons that would just get trained up then quit to go become a housewife or something. That was then, I dont know, its a very specific and bitter story you are discussing about 35 years ago, too many factors, but there is probably something you are missing..either way, ancient history. today such things dont happen...and if they did, they would be all over the news and used in Hillary's stump speeches as an example.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 11:01 AM
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originally posted by: SaturnFX

Consider what you are saying:
"I think we should pay women less, and hire just men anyhow because muahahahaha".

Companies pinch pennies, and I guarantee you that if you qualified for the positions, you would be hired in..but either you weren't qualified, or you were disliked as a individual. Companies build teams, and if you were disruptive, rude, etc..then yeah, they tend to overlook for someone they feel will fit the company better.



THIS. If women were really being paid less than men, wouldn't any reasonable employer fire all the men and hire only women?

It's called an economical wage gap not some evil conspiracy to keep women unemployed. On average, women choose lesser paying jobs in healthcare fields, serving and teaching. On average women take more paid time off and sick days. On average women work less over time. On average, women take more leave time than men when having a new baby. Women make choices but that does not mean they are being held down.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 11:12 AM
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originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

People like Chanty Binx, for example are hurting society. They cannot control their tempers long enough and refuse to listen to reason or evidence.


There are extremists in everything. I wouldn't listen to extremists on any subject.

People who follow extremists are themselves extremists.

You have any normal, intelligent, educated feminist you object to?


edit on 31-5-2016 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 11:18 AM
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originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

This is the point in the conversation where I stare slack jawed at my screen because you just asked if science is a relevant factor.


When you meet someone, what decides how you treat them? Do you demand to see their birth certificate to decide on what pronouns to use, or do you treat them as you do any other person? Their genetics, i.e. "science," doesn't matter to me. I don't care what they look like. I don't care what their sex designation was 30 years ago. I care about how they treat others today, because I'm dealing with them as they are today.

If you require private medical "facts" to determine how to treat others, you're the risk, not them.

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

THIS. If women were really being paid less than men, wouldn't any reasonable employer fire all the men and hire only women?

It's called an economical wage gap not some evil conspiracy to keep women unemployed. On average, women choose lesser paying jobs in healthcare fields, serving and teaching. On average women take more paid time off and sick days. On average women work less over time. On average, women take more leave time than men when having a new baby. Women make choices but that does not mean they are being held down.


You seem extremely hostile and out of touch with many women. Do you have a copy of your medical records around to prove your genetics?
edit on 31-5-2016 by ReprobateRaccoon because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 11:22 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

People like Chanty Binx, for example are hurting society. They cannot control their tempers long enough and refuse to listen to reason or evidence.


There are extremists in everything. I wouldn't listen to extremists on any subject.

People who follow extremists are themselves extremists.

You have any normal, intelligent, educated feminist you object to?



The problem is with extremists, you are 100% correct. The sad part is the extremists are the ones who get attention and they are making their voices heard where as people like Christina Hoff Sommers (A feminist I completely admire and enjoy listening to) are being brushed aside and pained as evil and bigoted when they are, in fact, the opposite.

I am currenlt reading a book by Miss Hoff Sommers titled "Who Stole Feminism" where she discusses the things like perceived wage gap and how the feminist community can take blatantly false allegations and turn them into mantras.

Most notably the Anorexia crisis that notable feminist Naomi Wolf touched on in her book "The Beauty Myth".




Thanks to her debut book, Wolf obtained instantaneous fame all over the world. She traveled, gave lectures, took part in discussions, and appeared on television. Her book was a best seller. In the public debate the anorexia statistics in her chapter “Hunger” were frequently talked about. The eating disorder figures were dramatically high: according to Wolf (1990), 20% of American female students suffered from anorexia and 60% from bulimia. Only small minority had no eating disorder! Her mortality figure—150,000 deaths from anorexia each year in the U.S.—caught the most attention in the media……. In 1994, professor in philosophy Christina Hoff Sommers—not an eating disorder expert—responded in her book Who Stole Feminism? (Sommers, 1994). She tracked down the mortality figure to the source. Wolf had cited a book by Brumberg, who had referred to a newsletter of the American Anorexia and Bulimia Association (AABA). Brumberg misquoted this newsletter, however: The AABA had referred to 150,000 sufferers (not fatalities) from anorexia nervosa.


Article written about the two books


Women who "mishear" and make up statistics as part of persuing their agenda within the feminist community, not just "extremists" are also harmful. Feminism should be about equality for all, not just equality for women.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: ReprobateRaccoon

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

This is the point in the conversation where I stare slack jawed at my screen because you just asked if science is a relevant factor.


When you meet someone, what decides how you treat them? Do you demand to see their birth certificate to decide on what pronouns to use, or do you treat them as you do any other person? Their genetics, i.e. "science," doesn't matter to me. I don't care what they look like. I don't care what their sex designation was 30 years ago. I care about how they treat others today, because I'm dealing with them as they are today.

If you require private medical "facts" to determine how to treat others, you're the risk, not them.

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

THIS. If women were really being paid less than men, wouldn't any reasonable employer fire all the men and hire only women?

It's called an economical wage gap not some evil conspiracy to keep women unemployed. On average, women choose lesser paying jobs in healthcare fields, serving and teaching. On average women take more paid time off and sick days. On average women work less over time. On average, women take more leave time than men when having a new baby. Women make choices but that does not mean they are being held down.


You seem extremely hostile and out of touch with many women. Do you have a copy of your medical records around to prove your genetics?



Calling me hostile when I have valid proof is a severe stretch. (Note the point in the conversation is now turning to underhanded insults instead of viable information, for those watching at home).

As far as having medical records, I can most certainly contact the VA for the exams on my pelvic bones when I broke my lower IPR if that is what you wish. You can study me anthropology style and determine whether I am male or female based on my bone structure...which is also science.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 11:29 AM
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I don't understand why cultural gender roles are part of the same conversation as transgender?



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 11:29 AM
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originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad


.... does someone choosing to "identify" with another gender change that genetic predisposition?


Just to clear up this misconception: a transgender person doesn't "choose" to identify with another gender. Someone doesn't "choose" to have gender dysphoria. You don't choose your gender identity any more than you choose your sexual orientation.

That is all - carry on.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 11:35 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

Choosing to inject your body with hormones is a choice.

Also, as someone with BDD (Body Dysmorphic Disorder) I am well aware of just how a dysmorphia works. I have had to live with it my entire life. So explain to me why Body Dysmorphic disorder and Gender Dysmorphic disorder are treated differently.

Mine is being treated with medication and treated as a disease where as the other is hailed as a societal martyr. In what world does that make viable sense to anyone?
edit on 31-5-2016 by SomeDumbBroad because: (no reason given)




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