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Gender roles and the effects of shifting these roles on modern day society.

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posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:00 PM
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a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

Not only that but because in part of the efforts of feminists and their insistence on equality, society has been re-organized in such a way that even if I wanted to stay at home and play the role of mother, either my husband has to be almost supernaturally successful or we have to rely on government subsidy to support that even with just one kid.

The days of being able to simply have one bread-winner are gone.

And there is a stigma if you announce yourself as a stay at home. People either pity you or think you are being selfish or lazy unless you run in certain circles.




posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:01 PM
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originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad
If we are to be "breaking down societal norms" then what would they transition to?

Enter Dakota...


So, can I like both of them?

Each for who they are.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:04 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SomeDumbBroad



And there is a stigma if you announce yourself as a stay at home. People either pity you or think you are being selfish or lazy unless you run in certain circles.


I have heard of that before and it is just sad. There should be no stigma with wanting to raise your children. That should be the reason you have them...to instill in them a wealth of knowledge and help them develop into capable human beings.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:05 PM
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originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad
a reply to: onequestion

YES! And people who want us to accept their notion of the new norm but not the facts that prevail. As male and female everything about us is different. Our bone structure, our genetic makeup... everything. We all have estrogen and testosterone inside of us and we all have a different balance of those chemicals but that does not change the genetic makeup we are born with.


You may want to review some of these articles?

BU researchers find biological basis for transgender identity

Is There Something Unique about the Transgender Brain?

Transgender: Evidence on the biological nature of gender identity


Taking the entire breadth of the findings uncovered by my research, it appears that there is more than sufficient evidence that transgender persons either have a serious hormonal-based birth defect, have been exposed to exogenous chemicals which have impacted their gender development in the womb, have a genetic karyotype which differs from the general population, or via some other process have a brain structure which is different than would be indicated by their chromosomes. While no single study presents proof beyond any shadow of a doubt or with metaphysical certainty, taken together they do present a preponderance of evidence such that one can say with confidence that transgender individuals have a congenital gene-based difference from cissexual individuals. Link


What were you trying to say about "genetics"?


When we try to change that forcibly it becomes an issue. Why do you think that there is a rise in suicide among the transgender population? Because it is acceptable (as it should be) to allow them to make the transition fully, not just play dress up. When they have foreign chemicals invading their bodies, there are obvious emotional and mental consequences.


Whoa!

How about you do some research into this before you present things as fact that are simply your opinion based inadequate understating of the issues that manage to turn your discussion of gender into yet another anti-trans diatribe.

The Truth About Transgender Suicide

Mental Health of Transgender Children Who Are Supported in Their Identities

RESULTS: Transgender children showed no elevations in depression and slightly elevated anxiety relative to population averages. They did not differ from the control groups on depression symptoms and had only marginally higher anxiety symptoms.



general population rates for suicidality are around 1.6% in the United States. Then they note that suicidality rates for post-SRS transsexual people are about 4.1%. They then claim that since this is “hundreds of percent higher” that surgery does not work.

But let’s talk about the reality. What is that reality? It is that the pre-op/non-op suicidality rate for transsexuals is 41%!!!

Yep, that’s right. Pre-op rates of suicidality for transsexuals are 1000% higher than post-op rates


You may want to download the PDF with analysis of this data?
Suicide Attempts Among Transgender and Gender Non-Conforming Adults

Still not enough? Here are some links to a few articles and a link to a page with 180 research papers from 2014 and newer:

Other references: List A

Myths About Transition Regrets

Largest Study to Date: Transgender Hormone Treatment Safe

Hormone therapy in transgender adults is safe with provider supervision; A review of hormone therapy sequelae for transgender individuals

Being transgender in a transphobic society leads to moments of sheer desperation


It's very basic logic that is being blatantly ignored by the liberalist community.


Seems when you start off with faulty logic that doesn't match the facts, you might want to take a closer look at who is blatantly ignoring what.


I agree wholeheartedly with what you say about the trans population. They recognize gender roles and want to conform to those roles which is why the third-wave feminist "solidarity" with their cause makes no sense to me. If we are to be "breaking down societal norms" then what would they transition to?


Might want to get your "feminism waves" sorted out? "Third-wave" and the TERF brigade are somewhat passé as it is the fourth-wave that takes up the cause of all women whether cis or trans.

If your avatar is you, you certainly seem to be stereotypically reinforcing traditional gender roles with your presentation, dress, hair, cosmetics etc. You certainly seem to conform to the roles your third-wavers decry as misogynistic, belittling and oppressive. Don't go insinuating that "trans populations" are co-opting a particular gender role that you yourself are married to unless you want to subject yourself to the same limiting criticisms.

Here's another relevant video from Blaire White. I might suggest if you are going to bring transgender people into a discussion, it is best not to generalize, not paint everyone into the same box and work to have a better understanding of these issues before presenting subjective opinions as matter of fact statements. Your posts on this subject may not be the rally cry garnering the support and admiration of those with anti-trans sentiment around here but on the other hand, if you better understood what you were talking about, you wouldn't have folks like me calling you on your misconceptions.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:10 PM
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a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

The funny thing is that I'm completely inclined to agree with you. I have recently remarked that women, in a grossly general sense, are better suited for stay-home parenting (not to say that men shouldn't play a big part in day-to-day parenting, as well). For all I know, there's a biochemical explanation for it. The big footnote here, which I think you've touched upon in this thread, is that biology isn't the only thing that shapes us.

My personal tides may be changing soon, however. My wife has been itching to get out of the workforce and I have been itching to get back in.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:23 PM
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a reply to: Freija

Anxiety and Depression in Transgender




The purpose of the current study was to examine facilitative and avoidant coping as mediators between distress and transition status, social support, and loss. Method: A total of 351 transgender individuals (n = 226 transgender women and n = 125 transgender men) participated in this study. Participants completed measures on transgender identity, family history of mental health concerns, perceptions of loss, coping, depression, and anxiety. Results: The rates of depressive symptoms (51.4% for transgender women; 48.3% for transgender men) and anxiety (40.4% for transgender women; 47.5% for transgender men) within the current study far surpass the rates of those for the general population. Structural equation modeling (SEM) was used to analyze the data—2 separate models were hypothesized, based on reports of anxiety or depression. The SEM results suggest that the processes for transgender women and transgender men are primarily similar for depression and anxiety; avoidant coping served as a mediator between transition status and both distress variables. Social support was directly related to distress variables, as well as indirectly related through avoidant coping. Conclusion: Results suggest the need for practitioners to focus on interventions that reduce avoidant coping strategies, while simultaneously increasing social support, in order to improve mental health for transgender individuals. Individuals who are in the beginning stages of their transition will use different coping strategies than those who are in later stages; interventions should be adjusted on the basis of the transition status of transgender clients. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2014 APA, all rights reserved)



Transgender and Depression



Depression is the leading mental health issue faced by transgender persons. However, unless a client or reader's depression has progressed to crisis proportions it is the subject I am least likely to receive questions about. Depression is also the leading mental health issue faced by those who do not have a transgender-identity. With this knowledge it should be clearly understood that when transgender persons are depressed, it does not mean that having a transgender-identity or fulfilling one's cross-dressing needs is pathological, mentally disordered or medically diseased.


Transgender more likely to develop depression




'Minority stress theory' proposes that the health disparities among sexual minorities can be explained to a large extent by stressors induced by a hostile and homophobic culture, which often results in a lifetime of harassment, maltreatment, discrimination and victimization and may ultimately impact access to care. Underlying the concept of minority stress are assumptions that stressors are unique (not experienced by other populations), chronic (related to social and cultural structures) and socially-based (embedded within institutions and structures as well as processes).



Third Wave Feminism according to the Encyclopedia Brittanica




The third wave of feminism emerged in the mid-1990s. It was led by so-called Generation Xers who, born in the 1960s and ’70s in the developed world, came of age in a media-saturated and culturally and economically diverse milieu. Although they benefitted significantly from the legal rights and protections that had been obtained by first- and second-wave feminists, they also critiqued the positions and what they felt was unfinished work of second-wave feminism.


These are just a few articles an excerpts available.

As far as your claims:




If your avatar is you, you certainly seem to be stereotypically reinforcing traditional gender roles with your presentation, dress, hair, cosmetics etc. You certainly seem to conform to the roles your third-wavers decry as misogynistic, belittling and oppressive. Don't go insinuating that "trans populations" are co-opting a particular gender role that you yourself are married to unless you want to subject yourself to the same limiting criticisms.


The topic is about gender roles throughout history and how they have effects on the population today...And by creating "new" genders it creates the same stress of taking out our gender roles.

You know, when everyone had a place and was important, before everyone became self centered and special snowflakes.
edit on 30-5-2016 by SomeDumbBroad because: Missed a letter in my quote



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:27 PM
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a reply to: MiddleInitial

Best of luck to you whatever you decide to do!



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:27 PM
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edit on 30-5-2016 by SomeDumbBroad because: double post



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:33 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad
If we are to be "breaking down societal norms" then what would they transition to?

Enter Dakota...


So, can I like both of them?

Each for who they are.

You are free to like whoever you want

Each for who they are
...
but only 1 of them even knows what they are


Personally I dont like people who tell me to go f myself if I dont see them as a walrus or whatever they decide they want to pretend to be. I can accept trans. sure. I can accept eccentric..they make the world a fun place. I dont accept fem/fer/zim/zir/bim/bir made up bs. we are a sexually dimorphic species with some gray area, some crossovers..we aren't all the things all at once.

Dakota may be a swell guy in person..but chances are probably not..he sounds like the guy that would be correcting you every time you say almost everything and demanding your mentality is inherently aggressive because you speak in traditional gender norm ideals.
..
But sure. enjoy. just showing a contrast between a trans woman, and a "gender terrorist"...one being happy, logical, thoughtful, and the other being just a ball of frustration and anger wrapped up in a safety pin.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:35 PM
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originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad
If we are to be "breaking down societal norms" then what would they transition to?

Enter Dakota...


So, can I like both of them?

Each for who they are.

You are free to like whoever you want

Each for who they are
...
but only 1 of them even knows what they are


Personally I dont like people who tell me to go f myself if I dont see them as a walrus or whatever they decide they want to pretend to be. I can accept trans. sure. I can accept eccentric..they make the world a fun place. I dont accept fem/fer/zim/zir/bim/bir made up bs. we are a sexually dimorphic species with some gray area, some crossovers..we aren't all the things all at once.

Dakota may be a swell guy in person..but chances are probably not..he sounds like the guy that would be correcting you every time you say almost everything and demanding your mentality is inherently aggressive because you speak in traditional gender norm ideals.
..
But sure. enjoy. just showing a contrast between a trans woman, and a "gender terrorist"...one being happy, logical, thoughtful, and the other being just a ball of frustration and anger wrapped up in a safety pin.



Well put



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:36 PM
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originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

The topic is about gender roles throughout history and how they have effects on the population today...And by creating "new" genders it creates the same stress of taking out our gender roles.

You know, when everyone had a place and was important, before everyone became self centered and special snowflakes.


Did you live in the 50s when roles were still pretty much defined?

I did. It sucked.

People were like robots. Each doing their duty for their gender assignments.

Lots of "I wish I could do that" - - "I can't because my role is . . . "



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:43 PM
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a reply to: Annee

And then there was a justified cause for concern.

In modern day society, there are myths spun up by fanatical feminists that simply aren't true in order to perpetuate that there is some intangible problem that needs fixing.

We are lucky to live in a time where we have freedoms and rights and laws to protect us... the problem lies when 1) feminists seek to destroy "gender norms" as if they are something completely fictitious (they are not) and 2) blatant statistic data, economical peer studies and facts are presented but all everyone wants to do is shout louder and undermine the people who are working towards a true equality, not just " i am being oppressed, waaaaaaah listen to me."



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:46 PM
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a reply to: SomeDumbBroad
Maybe you read the things you linked from your quick Google search but I think you failed to recognize or understand the sources of these measurable levels of depression and anxiety. Being transgender is hard. Duh.

Because "transgender" is a nebulous umbrella term encompassing many multi-faceted things, you may want to consider that TRANSgender people aren't the ones "creating new genders" and I think if you looked more closely or had any actual experience with transgender people, you would find that most fit quite nicely into your comfortable binary and traditional roles.

It seems the ones so damn worried that the sky is falling are the ones suffering from snowflakeism? How about we stop tossing pejorative labels around and just try to all get along?



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:47 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
Did you live in the 50s when roles were still pretty much defined?

I did. It sucked.

You are discussing society norms, which I agree is lame overall. the women as default thought of as the maid while the man is meant to be the hard worker. women must learn to be pleasant and non opinionated, men to be not interested in almost anything women are interested in, etc.
Those aren't gender norms, those are societal norms from a relic era of women suppression.
The 50s adults were raised by parents that got their ideas from pre-womans liberation movements.

Dont confuse the two though, todays discussion on gender norms, smashing gender ideas is not the same argument. Trans people are the most at odds with these gender fluid / gender is just a society construct types. Society norms may be. gender is not.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:49 PM
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originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad
If we are to be "breaking down societal norms" then what would they transition to?

Enter Dakota...


So, can I like both of them?

Each for who they are.

You are free to like whoever you want

Each for who they are
...
but only 1 of them even knows what they are


Personally I dont like people who tell me to go f myself if I dont see them as a walrus or whatever they decide they want to pretend to be. I can accept trans. sure. I can accept eccentric..they make the world a fun place. I dont accept fem/fer/zim/zir/bim/bir made up bs. we are a sexually dimorphic species with some gray area, some crossovers..we aren't all the things all at once.

Dakota may be a swell guy in person..but chances are probably not..he sounds like the guy that would be correcting you every time you say almost everything and demanding your mentality is inherently aggressive because you speak in traditional gender norm ideals.
..
But sure. enjoy. just showing a contrast between a trans woman, and a "gender terrorist"...one being happy, logical, thoughtful, and the other being just a ball of frustration and anger wrapped up in a safety pin.


Not bad.

But, I do think you have a pre preferred preference. A society acceptability. Most people do.

I've learned over the years "people are their heart" - - its all about how they interact and treat me. It's often surprising who is the better friend.

I've been frustrated with people not wanting to accept me, and I'm pretty straight.

He could turn out to be a complete jerk - - or the best friend ever.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:52 PM
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originally posted by: Freija
you may want to consider that TRANSgender people aren't the ones "creating new genders" and I think if you looked more closely or had any actual experience with transgender people, you would find that most fit quite nicely into your comfortable binary and traditional roles.

This is the common confusion. I think the whole new gender I am a man, will look like a man, will act like a gay man, but demand to be called a octopus are not to be taken seriously..they are just trolls wanting to rage against the machine somehow and be special and complicated.

I know in my teens / early 20s I was seeking out new ways to seem mysterious. I even came - - that close to calling myself a vampire pagan and demanding people take me seriously..luckily the anne rice fetish wore off before I went full lestat and sharpened my teeth.

This is just the latest incarnation of that...and they are, perhaps unwittingly, making a mockery out of actual trans people.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:54 PM
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a reply to: SaturnFX

Pretty gay for Blaire. IDGAF.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:56 PM
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a reply to: SaturnFX

I think yet another Blaire White video addresses what you are talking about.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 11:58 PM
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originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad
a reply to: Annee

And then there was a justified cause for concern.

In modern day society, there are myths spun up by fanatical feminists that simply aren't true in order to perpetuate that there is some intangible problem that needs fixing.

We are lucky to live in a time where we have freedoms and rights and laws to protect us... the problem lies when 1) feminists seek to destroy "gender norms" as if they are something completely fictitious (they are not) and 2) blatant statistic data, economical peer studies and facts are presented but all everyone wants to do is shout louder and undermine the people who are working towards a true equality, not just " i am being oppressed, waaaaaaah listen to me."


Well, that's way to clinical for me. I prefer real life.

I think about the history of the Playboy Centerfold and how she's changed over 60+ years.

We evolve, needs, likes, desires, even preference in female form changes.

I'm not into "Once Was", I'm into evolving in what will work today, for tomorrow.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 12:00 AM
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originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad
. . . fanatical feminists . . .


BTW, how many fanatical feminists do you know today?




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