Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

a reply to: Reverbs

Muse is just so good. I had a very intense relationship with both absolution and origin of symmetry. They are so theatrical and intense, I love that.

a reply to: Serdgiam

that was a personal anecdote about me.

I meant my own humanity.

I know what poisons it and enhances it, because it is me.

Believing that I am gabriel doesn't provide me with any more than believing I am Reverbs.

but it does take away..

that's all I meant.

but I didn't even mean I was human.. You ahve to be careful with my words. But that's why it's good that we are in a polite longform discussion so things can be amended and seen better. "The News" on TV is a joke by comparison to the amount of detailed information we can exchange through our own energy systems here.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Reverbs

Muse is just so good. I had a very intense relationship with both absolution and origin of symmetry. They are so theatrical and intense, I love that.

YES!

a reply to: Reverbs

I love the fact in this cafe you can never go off-topic. We're just chatting so, how tf does he know? The one writing those lyrics? He definitely seems to know a little bit about the "wonders of being alive awake". We're splintered in so many fractions it's safe to say we don't know anything.
But it's there. I don't even feel obliged to say it's intelligent but it's there. Whom are your thoughts talking to? Is it a recorded algorithm feedback? Because your thoughts reflect the reality, there are patterns.

a reply to: Peeple

it does sometimes seem like you are entering codes into a computer (analogy) by every action you take, and that intelligent computer is deciding what algorithms to use to spit back out more things..

IS it functional? It feels like a function.. BUT...




I just have a love for love that will never die. Maybe that's why I feel I can't be beat.. My story IS being written. People can change that story but already the effects are infecting other stories.. I am proud of that beyond all else. Even without souls or immortality My changes are entered into the mix forever..

a reply to: UniFinity

Yes mindfullness until it all pours out of the ears instead of the mouth same way it came in... mindfullness is simply finding an anchor something you always pull the mind back too or whatever it is having thoughts... like stretching taffy throw it around the post and pull it out over and over until it surrenders and leaves.

it isn't your friend it isn't anyone's friend look at all the suffering and confusion it has brought... don't identify with it beat the hell out of it make it your bitch and well eventually poof gone. The collective consciousness then fills in this is what I meant by guest and host... twos company energy and body three is a crowd... the self thinking that either is actually their possession to hold onto.

When energies come in the form as there remains awareness, you can see what that intent it by how that energy feels you can do this as much as you want too because so many people are always out of their minds elsewhere in mindlessness instead of mindfulness...

until the actual fruit just drops no matter what you do having had stream entry it means it is something enevitiable like dominoes set in motion of course you can mash the acelerator pedal or the brakes but eventually you're just there no longer subject to subjectivity just an observer to it... it will feel like you then become the taffy around the post being pulled out and thats ok always be honest in all you do as intent builds karma self deciet only fools one person.

This place, this abode.. this cafe..

it's the best discussion I've ever been a part of.

I am so grateful to all of you for being a part.

I don't think I could find enough gold to ever be worth the gold of information sharing and cooperation I find here.


Some days you guys make me glow all day and through the next and through the next..


THIS is what I stand for. THIS is my game.
Open discourse. Open exploration. Cooperation to a common goal.
and in the meantime, sharing is caring.
I love that you guys care.

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: Reverbs

The words we use will likely always be fingers pointing at the moon.

always..

silent shared experience IS the moon, but otherwise we are distancing ourselves to form a relation to the moon that is "out there" so language is awesome but it has drawbacks.

a reply to: Reverbs

I think we all need to be careful about others words.

Maybe the reason it takes away is the approach, or sticking with the poison context, the dose. If we see it as poison, it will rise to meet those expectations.

In other words, there is no reason not to be both reverbs and Gabriel. In doing so, we can start to become something greater than either premise, if approached properly with the appropriate "dose."

So, instead of discarding all of it, we can learn how to incorporate it into something greater, Rebriel or Gabverbs. Then, incorporating that with even further aspects of who we are. Bob comes along, and then we can become Bobrebrial or Gabverbob.

The trouble comes in when we stick with one of the things, or completely avoid one of the things. In the former, we limit ourselves to a single brick, or building block, and in the latter we can end up with a hole in the structure that could lead to collapse.

In other words, if even a part of me has an inkling of "Gabrielism," then it can be beneficial to actively and consciously aggregate that into the rest of who I am. If not, it can work as a poison that we aren't even aware of that can fester until it bursts, where it will balance itself out by full inundation into that single brick (meaning, its likely to have experienced a phase where the identity of "Gabriel" became a major focus, usually not with the best results).

Through that, we turn the poison into an antidote and use something that can take away and instead use it as a building block to build something more stable than the single piece.

We tend to view ourselves as this single monolithic thing, when we are an aggregate of many different pieces. Its much more difficult to give all of those pieces a place, though I'm convinced that is largely a result of our cultural story. Learning to do this with process like breathing alongside thinking tends to be easier than doing so as turtles all the way down.

Its a process of herding cats, really, where we can learn to lead the hunt rather than herd. And of course, I firmly believe that such conversations transcend just the participants (you and me) in much the same way as we can assimilate those pieces individually. In this, I tend to say what I feel led to say, even if it feels that I'm pushing an issue beyond what you and me really want to talk about.

Sometimes it feels to me like their is some piece of the puzzle that needs such things in order to know where it is to be placed. As often as not, it has little to do with you and me, but the click of it finding its place can echo through time.

a reply to: Reverbs


You're a living example of "mind over matter".


Just imagine what else you could survive after what you've been through.

a reply to: Reverbs

"Love" is such a diverse experience that I am certain humanity has not even begun to scratch the surface of what it really is.

a reply to: Serdgiam

haha yes man..

just my humanity is my top block. it's my missing piece of the pyramid.

If you watch me long enough you will see me saying things like "the me that I am was doing this while the me that is more godlike was doing this.. "

but I don't equate humanity to human.

I am all of the above.

hence why I can't hate on demons so much..

I said something some time ago to someone.. What I said was about an attractive man I made up but I was actually just talking about myself.

"I like a man who can strangle a man with his bare hands and talk to a two year old for hours and hours. a man that can fight and laugh at himself too. A man that wears pink shirts, and steel toed boots."

lol..

I am many mes... But that's also not something I usually say, because it soudns like split personality disorder, but it's all me, so it's all one thing. but if you really think about that one, does that end at the outline of your body?

bacteria in your gut can tell your brain what it wants to eat and you as the emotional reactive you will react to that as oh my gawd guys lets go get pizza!

that's me too..

originally posted by: Mousygretchen
a reply to: Reverbs


You're a living example of "mind over matter".

Just imagine what else you could survive after what you've been through.

Anything!

hahaha.

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: Reverbs

"Love" is such a diverse experience that I am certain humanity has not even begun to scratch the surface of what it really is.

our words are not combining..

humanity does not = human.

my humanity stretches into my alien side too.

devils can have humanity.

I have more than scratched the surface on love and it should be evident after 17 death threats and being tased and almost dying twice, that love is the force I used to come back out without going nuts. Forgiveness is a part of love. It's really endless the power it has.

a reply to: Serdgiam

!00% rational and reasonable despite keeping your secrets the only thing I would add and it's likely you know this already is that illusion that there is such a thing as independence...

Sure you can step into the void over and over until the mind gets lost and can't make the journey back... but still in physical form animate but it can no longer be filled with the dramas and tropes or fooled and tooled.

Wouldn't matter at that point anyway... might as well be a plant stuck on a windowsil dreaming of what life was last aware of it yet by all apearances it is just apearances so whatever it appears as matters not... despite all the "laws" and "rules" designed to say otherwise as a cohesive control factor.

In as much as saying there's as many walls as you want to break as long as there is a conceptual reality then that conceptual can be perpetuated as such... and appear as one last remembered and slowly work it's way out reiteration after reiteration for maxiumum blah blah... since when did life to get to be so fair in such matters... when oneself did?



It's the journey and it will always be the journey even after one has arrived no matter how many there are... some are simply abject and adverse, so should one meet one as the antimatter to their own self perpetuation? No I leave them to be the wave even though Bodhidarma sat long enough for all of them... what can anyone do when they become what they already are or always were? As if the life lived up to however long in the present form is 100% moot like a tape measure that didn't reach the extents but saw it had gone far enough already let go and then rolled up right back to where it came from and the rest moot. But yet it's still a tape measure with nothing it need nor want to rule over... in objectivity? Sadly one can't say the same about others and those thinking you belong to them as some slave are the demons the antimatter to the matter that is simply equanimity despite button after button the program cannot play out so it sits on a busted loop.

a reply to: Reverbs

Definitely agree that humanity does not equal human, which is why I chose the word! Though, in this case, I don't believe any of us has scratched the surface much either.

Some cultures have even had multiple words to refer to what we have assimilated into "love." Perhaps they had the right idea on that, but even if they didn't, it allowed for a bit more nuanced exploration.

Like many things, we can only glimpse to the boundaries of our biology. In some things, they are a product of our brain, etc. but with "love" I believe it is something that exists beyond both humanity and humans and that the totality of what we can experience is a small fraction of its true extent.

With that in mind, what we experience individually or collectively would be no more extensive than what our sight can parse from the electromagnetic spectrum.

Live your life like it is all part of a vast conspiracy under control of you and your friends

Robert Anton Wilson (my bad paraphrase as I am not near by bookshelf to look it up)

That is how I see it. Otherwise, you get caught up in the semantics of society which is a control loop like system anyway. People tend to do this automatically if they are smart enough. They one day stop, be still, turn off that auto-voice of "shoulda," "woulda," "coulda," and stop the autocorrection of "I will do this" to "I won't/can't do this" and a little light goes on. Then, you can start applying this to other portions of living in a society. You start to "worry less and think more" (also RAW). You change yourself spontaneously by changing how you interact with the world. What you find PO'd you now make you laugh at how stupid you were to let it get to you. Yeah, you still need sympathy and empathy but that will come later as you forgive yourself.

Then real change happens. One day, if you are ready, you see everything connected in strange ways (with the proper training, there are certain numbers, like 3, that reach a vast significance. Btw, they say when you are passed Fellowcraft there is a moment when you see things that are man made as being "measured" and suddenly the ruler and square, the compass, all take on a new meaning. I walked out the door of the house one day and for the next five hours it was like being on T&C-25 but only mildly not like screaming at the walls full on freak out). Then the real fun starts! So, in some ways, you guys here are all responsible for me getting through that state of high strangeness by just hanging out and talking. General weirdness talk therapists you are!

I too want to say "Thanks!" to The Cafeterians! There is not a better group to share this with! I love you all too!

(Sheesh, where is a thread moderator when you need them to put the ship back on course? A quick diversion to sap island is not too much of a bad thing).



[ETA: Hahaha! In the half hour or so I took to write this up and search for the RAW quote, there have been multiple posts so now I am behind once again!]

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

gawd I love you my brother..

It's still in my custom title if anyone wants to look. .

People tend to do this automatically if they are smart enough. They one day stop, be still, turn off that auto-voice of "shoulda," "woulda," "coulda," and stop the autocorrection of "I will do this" to "I won't/can't do this" and a little light goes on. Then, you can start applying this to other portions of living in a society. You start to "worry less and think more" (also RAW). You change yourself spontaneously by changing how you interact with the world. What you find PO'd you now make you laugh at how stupid you were to let it get to you. Yeah, you still need sympathy and empathy but that will come later as you forgive yourself.

you are never behind because what are you catching up to? yourself?
All in due time...

WE are the change we have been waiting for.



What I quoted was a cliff notes of what happens. Isn't it magic?

It's glorious however you see it anyway.

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: Reverbs

Definitely agree that humanity does not equal human, which is why I chose the word! Though, in this case, I don't believe any of us has scratched the surface much either.

Some cultures have even had multiple words to refer to what we have assimilated into "love." Perhaps they had the right idea on that, but even if they didn't, it allowed for a bit more nuanced exploration.

Like many things, we can only glimpse to the boundaries of our biology. In some things, they are a product of our brain, etc. but with "love" I believe it is something that exists beyond both humanity and humans and that the totality of what we can experience is a small fraction of its true extent.

With that in mind, what we experience individually or collectively would be no more extensive than what our sight can parse from the electromagnetic spectrum.

another beautiful post..

Shouldn't we be the ones running the world?

English has two concepts of love.. One is romantic one on one type... And the other is loving another human as yourself not because they deserve it, but because it just is. that second American value of love it's probably in every other place too, just I'm in America.

that second definition is what I mean.

it has no tricks involved like sex.

it's purely empathy from knowing you could be that other person if your life had gone the same way. If you had the EXACT same experiences whos to know you might be the exact same person.

So forgive people for going down the wrong road. We still need to explore what it all means. Forgive them for exploring and finding the trap. Well, now I won't go into that trap. Thank you kind madam or sir. You just changed my life for not needing to explore that particular path. IS there some way to take you forward to another path? Well, if not we will lock you away from effecting us anymore....

and too many fall into that locked away , but they are still us. they are we. and part of us is locked away.

So that's a good marker for how we are doing..

How many of us are locked up?

We can do SOOOO much better.

most of my friends who help out humanity would be in jail right now for this reason or that one.

ok separate the rotting apples from the others or they ALL rot..
but human psychology can reverse rot. We can transmute rot into death and rebirth.

So much waste, and that makes us "sick"

how to get better? treat the problem.. Help those who seem misguided. Be kind to peopole who can't get a job because they were in prison.. If you can't help that dude, then you can't help the angel who has lived in hell either.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Objectivity and independence.. Some truly extraordinary concepts.

I use the word objective, but do I think I can fathom it, much less be it? I don't think I can, honestly. Still, I think it is useful to point to a concept. Something that exists as it does beyond whatever we might think of it.

As a scientist, such thoughts are certainly anathema to many, but I hold to them all the same.

Independence is another tricky one. It was certainly hammered into me as an illusion during my whole Buddhist stint, but I began to think that, maybe, it does exist. I can move one arm without the other, and I can move both without you moving yours.

That extremely simple thought led me to really thinking about how we use terms that, for all intents and purposes, seem paradoxical.

Can something be both fully co-dependent and independent? I believe the answer is yes, it just depends how, where, and when you look at it.

In the exact same vein, can freewill exist alongside fate and full blown predetermination? Again, I see the answer as yes. It just depends on how, where, and when we look at it. I wont bore you with a full explanation (us having a discussion runs the risks of imploding the fabric of time itself due to the sheer weight of our combined verbosity ), but a lot of it also derives from how I experience time and its movement.

All those blaspheming shenanigans aside, I definitely get what you are saying. Nothing truly exists in isolation, two islands may be separated by water but are connected by the land running beneath. Our brains seem to create this "independent" world that we can't escape and others can't really visit. Regardless of how we modify it, its easy to forget what catalyses and feeds that world, and even that other worlds exist at all. I like the phrase "independent but not separate," but truly I think the reality is that these relationships are beyond our biology innately. Its what makes adventures like science, learning, and exploration so thrilling. I think the magic is that our entire perception is an illusion and yet it also is validly present in time and space. Even with the illusory nature of perception, the perception exists all the same.

Its difficult, at best, to determine if its more beneficial to keep such things back or share them with the world. Codependent interactions are hysterically hard to predict without omniscience. No matter how much we prepare, repeat, and ponder, "no battleplan survives contact with the enemy." "End results" are really more of the end of the chapter than the whole book, but they are written one letter at a time.

Despite all that, I can't help but feel there is value to building something to the best of our ability. No matter how advanced something may be, it doesn't mean much when its contained in the temporal box of the mind.

The universe certainly likes to happen though, even demands it, despite our best or worst intentions.