Western Canadian Liberation Front

Originally posted by intrepid
That may be so for the rest of Canada but if he shows his head east of Quebec we may have our first political assassination.

That is too funny. I couldn't believe what I was reading. All Mulroney did for his party was ensure that they will never be re-elected. If I was a small 'c' conservative, I would not be happy with him at all. And as for the party, well, if they had not run ads making fun of Chretiens 'disability' on the eve of the election, and disgusted people so much, they may well have done a bit better. Do any of you remeber the attack ads - 'I would be embarrassed if he represented our country, he talks funny'.

Maybe you'd like some help from the U.S. in your goal of liberating - er, sorry, freeing western Canada from the people that don't think the same way in the east?

I'm not talking about official help from the U.S. government. No, I'm suggesting that there might be a number of people willing to come north and act as insurgents to help you get yourselves free.

What say you?


[edit on 1/12/2005 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by centurion1211
freeing western Canada from surrender monkeys in the east?

Was that called for? I don't think that aids the topic at hand.

Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
The best thing that could happen is a meteor smashing into Ottawa!

I would really object to that. I think that if you look at my location sig you can understand why.

EDITED to fix Freudian slip



[edit on 12-1-2005 by Otts]

And if anybody thinks I'm saying this because I don't like french people then they're wrong because I am french I just don't like Quebec!

TheCry - You must be Acadian!

the author of this thread shares alot of the same frustrations that the SILENT MAJORITY of Canadians are feeling coast to coast

The "silent majority" trick is so easy... because it can't be proven. Of course, it goes well with the conservative discourse that "We're the majority and we're right, you're wrong, so stop arguing!"

if you choose to buy the Sun because page two is what appeals to you.

The editorial in the Ottawa Sun is about 20 lines in 14-point font


And geez louise, I can't believe the direction this thread has taken. So the West is dissatisfied with the way things are run? Well, guess what... so are the other provinces. The dissatisfaction and frustration Rayzor says he feels doesn't come from a so-called conservative "silent majority". It comes from the fact that Canada is evolving into a very complex country. If you look at the latest election results, there is NO national party in Canada anymore. The Conservatives have the West (minus Manitoba and the Pacific strip of British Columbia), the Bloc has Québec, the New Democrats have Manitoba and part of the Maritimes... the Liberals manage to get elected because A) Ontario is the most populous province... 11 or 12 million people and the Conservatives can't get even a third of the seats? Hmmm...
and B) the Libs are the party that happens to still be acceptable to the most provinces.

Does that mean that Canada is falling apart? Nope. It just means that politically, it's become tough to run because of the widening differences between the regions. Canada isn't becoming more conservative or more liberal... it's becoming increasingly diverse.

So what do we do? I guess that at some point, if Canada defines itself by its diversity, the country will have to remember it's a confederation and not a federation, and some powers will have to go back to the provinces - those that don't detract from the Canadian identity or Canadian values.

Originally posted by Otts

Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
The best thing that could happen is a meteor smashing into Ottawa!

I would really object to that. I think that if you look at my sig you can understand why.

signature
I am Canadian, liberal and a French speaker. Let the games begin.

That's definately 3 strikes for you. Y'er Out!!! Game over.

Dang, I guess I made a Freudian lapse... I meant my location. Duh.

I blame the wine. And I'm not budging from that defense.

News flash about the Toronto Sun

Page 2 has changed...like...years ago, man.

The interesting part of that redneck rag is now inside the last page...PC has moved it after the want ads and the porno ads stuff in order to shield the sensitive types.

Even the Donato cartoons suck bigtime.

It is about the only thing worth looking at, though...reading any of it at all is just a waste of time.

The only liberal rag worth looking at these days, here in Canuckland, is The Walrus (and that's because it's new and different)

And Ottawa is boring, boring, boring (sorry ott), the only fun stuff going on is across the river in Quebec.

Masqua - actually, Hull (now Gatineau) doesn't have the dozens of bars they had some years ago... they cracked down because of drugs. The action is now in the Market in downtown Ottawa.

I live and learn in ATS...thanks, ott...It's been awhile, perhaps I'll have to visit some friends in Merrickville and get re-acquanted. That's bona fida pagan territory there, you know...

The last time I visited, my extent in Ottawa was the National Art Gallery and a few in a local pub.

As an avid canoeist, I now rarely get further East than Algonqian Park.

Maybe Ontario should secede from Canada and let the rest drift where they may...we'll keep a pact with Quebec for the use of the St. Lawrence and special priviledges for the Jazz festival, though...

eh? (j/k)

Originally posted by rayzor11Yup - pg 2 in the Sun is what appeals to me golly gee damn tootin. Bottom line, other than a few far right papers, there is no alternative voice in our mainstream media.

One gets their point across much better when they avoid the smart alec remarks rayzor. Those suggest that you have no arguable defence of your position. But from the sounds of it, I pegged your preference for the dailies.

Well looky here pardners - we've found ourselves a real down-home beaches intellectual/elitist wannabe...moved away huh? Guess the whole idea of raising a family conflicts with the traditional far left gospel. Inferiority? Failed attempt? Hardly. I live on the lake too...but I guess I can never belong if I don't spout the same drivel over afternoon lattes.

As with my above comment, the same applies here. And no, rayzor, obviously you are not very sharp, or you would note that had I wanted to be a Beaches wannabe, I would not have moved away. And yes, yours is as I describe, why else would you be so blatantly antagonistic to a particular type of neighbourhood? It was not the politics you attacked, but the trendiness of same, which means you lack the ability to mix and mingle. Now were you astute, you would note that I left for political reasons, and contrary to your complaining about the left, I did so because of a predominantly leftist view in the area. So then, your paint brush was shy more than a few bristles, particularly with your declaration that you live on a lake “too.” I do not live on a lake my friend, nor did I say I did.

We don't have states in Canada? Seriously? Thanks for the update.

No we don’t and you are quite welcome. Is it necessary for me to belittle you any further and advise you they are called provinces and territories? If you wish to denote Canadian politics in accordance to American territorial terms and colours, then I suggest to you that you live in the wrong country.

Let me try and follow your logic(?) here...give me some time, cause I'm one of those uneducated, redneck types

Take all the time you need.

no voice in the mainstream media, almost identical patterns in regional voting as our evil neighbours to the south, etc....but you'll just go on a personal attack with your apparent wealth of knowledge. How is that Humber dilpoma working out anyway?

Unfortunately you did not take enough time. We have no identical regional patterns to anything, unless you wish to fabricate same by municipality and riding then mix and match our 10+3 to the 50. Now, tut, tut, with the insults once again, is that how you prove your case by making wild assumptions about my education? And by the way, what is a “dilpoma?”

There is a frustration across Canada, but you won't find that on the CBC, or in the Star, etc...but if you dare to leave the confines of your cookie cutter neighbourhood, and travel across this great country - you will see, hear and feel the frustration. You can feel it from the posts on this thread....but you and your self proclaiming elitist friends will of course dismiss it as uneducated, redneck whining.

Au contraire! The only frustration and whining I find across Canada is from Canadian forum members who feel somewhat helpless and inferior to other Canadians, and who without the slightest bit of knowledge of the history of their country, find it necessary to make their case based on false logic, irrelevant statements and an absolute lack of their history.

Yes, my neighbourhood is that of a cookie cutter. I chose it, it did not choose me. I can afford it, I am pleased with it, I raise my family away from the maddening crowd of the big city in favour of my neighbourhood. That dear rayzor is why I love my country so much, all of it! Because I don’t have a need to be you, or live where you would like to dictate and vote for whomever you feel is the better party. And the only time I am ever drawn to colour in this magnificent country is when I behold that glorious red maple leaf that flies in the name of Canada. Donkey’s and elephants are obviously how you view colour, it certainly is not mine.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
One gets their point across much better when they avoid the smart alec remarks rayzor. Those suggest that you have no arguable defence of your position. But from the sounds of it, I pegged your preference for the dailies.

Oh knowledgeable one, it was YOU that stepped up to the plate 1st with the "smart alec remarks" (the Sun - pg2) ...I'm just playing the part that you and your type like to assume that I am - someone that would have the unfortunate, un-informed gall to disagree with you

As with my above comment, the same applies here. And no, rayzor, obviously you are not very sharp, or you would note that had I wanted to be a Beaches wannabe, I would not have moved away. And yes, yours is as I describe, why else would you be so blatantly antagonistic to a particular type of neighbourhood? It was not the politics you attacked, but the trendiness of same, which means you lack the ability to mix and mingle. Now were you astute, you would note that I left for political reasons, and contrary to your complaining about the left, I did so because of a predominantly leftist view in the area. So then, your paint brush was shy more than a few bristles, particularly with your declaration that you live on a lake “too.” I do not live on a lake my friend, nor did I say I did.

Yeah sorry - the nickname comes from hockey unfortunately...my elitist, intellectual friends have a different nickname for me lol. But thanks for the IQ reminder again - I almost forgot my place.

I used the Beaches reference to describe the trendy left-wing elitists that are so blessed with a wealth of knowledge, that they believe that their mission in life is to guide the rest of us mis-informed masses in terms of morals, culture, politics, etc. Sorry, but I can't "mix n mingle" with these types.

No we don’t and you are quite welcome. Is it necessary for me to belittle you any further and advise you they are called provinces and territories? If you wish to denote Canadian politics in accordance to American territorial terms and colours, then I suggest to you that you live in the wrong country.

Consumed by your obvious hatred of our evil neighbour to the south, you of course, missed the entire point. The frustration the west feels is the SAME frustration that the red states in the US feel - being ruled/dictated by the small (yet concentrated) pockets of urban, metropolitan blue. If you can't see that similarity, then there's no point debating further. Maybe if we had our own two "distinct" colors, you could maybe get a handle on what I'm talking about?

Unfortunately you did not take enough time. We have no identical regional patterns to anything, unless you wish to fabricate same by municipality and riding then mix and match our 10+3 to the 50. Now, tut, tut, with the insults once again, is that how you prove your case by making wild assumptions about my education? And by the way, what is a “dilpoma?”

No identical regional patterns of anything? OK, I understand your anti-US stance, but lets put that aside for a moment. Lets pretend its "France" to our immediate south, and they recently had an election with a similar outcome to that other country that we won't talk about anymore....and I'll take just Ontario for our little comparison....now look at how the voting went...Libs took the Golden Horseshoe...and the rest is painted another color. That similarity mirrored right across the country (except Quebec). Urban/metro vs rural/hick....see the analogy with "France" now?

And sorry about the insults and "wild assumptions" of your education - you just fit the mold...kinda like you first tried to peg my uneducated, redneck a**.

Au contraire! The only frustration and whining I find across Canada is from Canadian forum members who feel somewhat helpless and inferior to other Canadians, and who without the slightest bit of knowledge of the history of their country, find it necessary to make their case based on false logic, irrelevant statements and an absolute lack of their history.

talk about "painting with a brush shy of a few bristles" lol...a new twist to "the uneducated, redneck masses"...now we have an inferiority complex, are uneducated about the history of Canada, and use false/irrelevant logic. Thanks for the update! Now you can put the blinders back on....

Yes, my neighbourhood is that of a cookie cutter. I chose it, it did not choose me. I can afford it, I am pleased with it, I raise my family away from the maddening crowd of the big city in favour of my neighbourhood. That dear rayzor is why I love my country so much, all of it! Because I don’t have a need to be you, or live where you would like to dictate and vote for whomever you feel is the better party. And the only time I am ever drawn to colour in this magnificent country is when I behold that glorious red maple leaf that flies in the name of Canada. Donkey’s and elephants are obviously how you view colour, it certainly is not mine.

Wow - cool finish...very patriotic - are you sure you're not really American?

Anyway, I guess you are right...

- no similarity at all to the that evil "country down south"
- no regional feeling of disparity/frustration/neglect anywhere in Canada
- no red or blue crayons anymore


*edit* grammar



[edit on 13-1-2005 by rayzor11]

Originally posted by rayzor11
What did we have as far as turnout last election? 45%? Canadian apathy is only overshadowed by the complete lack of any leadership/charisma of our choices for PM lol.

Eh don't lump me in with martin I was just quietly reminding you that your political gods to the west didn't win and Political Apathy is a huge problem in North America and the leadership/charisma thing is an issue in Canada, Mexico and USA hell Politics in general have pretty much always been like that minus the odd gem in the sand, and let me tell you BULL-rony wasn't one of em.

NAFTA bad??? Take a quick look at that HUGE trade surplus we have...and you still say Free Trade is bad?

You call Softwood lumber tarrifs Free Trade? Without NAFTA We would still have a huge trade surplus and in addition to that we would have an nice piece of Tarriff action. Protectionism is good for smaller economies bud, Take an economics course somtime and you'll learn aplenty.

Mulroney will go down as one of Canada's greatest PM's....but we can wait 10 years or so to argue that one.

One of the Greatest Canadian PM's in History? HAHAHAHAHA You sound like a Stuck up Rosedale kid whos never even tasted what its like to live paycheck to paycheck, grew up/still growing up wit a silver(or platinum) spoon there? Get out into there world there is more to it then the Conservative Bubble you find yourself in.

Conservatism on the way down? Explain the huge increase in PC power over such a short period of time, with the weakest of leaders. Explain the Liberals' shift to the right over the past 10 - 15 years. They might call themselves Liberals, but they much closer to the middle than the have ever been in history.

Power through amalgamation. We have been over this before, you have a selective memory. Let me spell it out for you in big bold words so you'll remember.

When you add up all the votes from every election since Kim Campbell the Right lost seats to the Left in EVERY SINGLE ELECTION Voter turnout is pointless doncha know. Trust me if the Liberals don't make any missteps they will regain thier majority. I don't particularily like the Libs that much but I prefer them to the Conservatives. I suffered through almost a decade of conservative rule in the 90s in Ontario, seems you didn't feel the pinch like everyone else whos families made under 30 grand a year. I actually knew of a single mother family with 4 kids forced to buy dog food to feed her kids because her Welly checks only came to 1100 bucks a month just in case you didn't know thats 220 $ per family member for food, shelter, cloths etc. Before under ray she got 1600 $ but since Mike Harris deemed her to be at risk of abusing her welly check they cut it by 30 % in a single stroke of the pen, and right after that he gave himself and his cronies raises. Now don't get me started on BULL-rony. Lots of crap on him that cannot be disproven either as its public record

[edit on 13-1-2005 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by sardion2000
Eh don't lump me in with martin I was just quietly reminding you that your political gods to the west didn't win and Political Apathy is a huge problem in North America and the leadership/charisma thing is an issue in Canada, Mexico and USA hell Politics in general have pretty much always been like that minus the odd gem in the sand, and let me tell you BULL-rony wasn't one of em.

I agree 100%...and we'll have to wait n see about the Bull-rony part

You call Softwood lumber tarrifs Free Trade?

Without NAFTA We would still have a huge trade surplus and in addition to that we would have an nice piece of Tarriff action. Protectionism is good for smaller economies bud, Take an economics course somtime and you'll learn aplenty.

ok "bud"...I have a degree in Economics...I know its only Waterloo, but it still counts...and I was co-op Eng during the early/mid 80's when there were ZERO co-op jobs cause the economy was in the sh*tter. Free Trade turned it around...we can argue all day long, but Free Trade = Bad is one argument you're not gonna win.

One of the Greatest Canadian PM's in History? HAHAHAHAHA You sound like a Stuck up Rosedale kid whos never even tasted what its like to live paycheck to paycheck, grew up/still growing up wit a silver(or platinum) spoon there? Get out into there world there is more to it then the Conservative Bubble you find yourself in.

funny how a "stuck up" sounding kid from where ever can see a great leader on both sides of the coin, but the left can't take their blinders off. But that's OK....like I said, we'll wait n see. And because someone lives paycheck to paycheck they should expect handouts from the govt? If we didn't have to pay so much in taxes, we wouldn't have a "paycheck 2 paycheck" existence. Conservative bubble? More like a conservative lean. Real world? Please. Your the one living day 2 day chasing some type of validity on a conspiracy site on the net

Power through amalgamation. We have been over this before, you have a selective memory. Let me spell it out for you in big bold words so you'll remember.

When you add up all the votes from every election since Kim Campbell the Right lost seats to the Left in EVERY SINGLE ELECTION
Voter turnout is pointless doncha know. Trust me if the Liberals don't make any missteps they will regain thier majority. I don't particularily like the Libs that much but I prefer them to the Conservatives. I suffered through almost a decade of conservative rule in the 90s in Ontario, seems you didn't feel the pinch like everyone else whos families made under 30 grand a year. I actually knew of a single mother family with 4 kids forced to buy dog food to feed her kids because her Welly checks only came to 1100 bucks a month just in case you didn't know thats 220 $ per family member for food, shelter, cloths etc. Before under ray she got 1600 $ but since Mike Harris deemed her to be at risk of abusing her welly check they cut it by 30 % in a single stroke of the pen, and right after that he gave himself and his cronies raises. Now don't get me started on BULL-rony. Lots of crap on him that cannot be disproven either as its public record

[edit on 13-1-2005 by sardion2000]

show me a far left liberal and I'll show you a sad story "about a friend" who suffered because their welfare - fill in the blanks - . That's the part that keeps me a little right of center. Should there be a safety net? YES...but should we throw endless money at a problem to see if it sticks? NO ...the welfare system was abused, and still is...throwing more money at people gives no incentive to change their situation...its human nature

But I agree the Liberals will get in again - not because they are "liberal" though...they are more conservative now than ever before. You see any party unity there? I don't. I see the far left fighting the conservative-liberals. Harper lost because the far right of his party won the battle for media time...and the Liberals will only lose if the far left does the same. Besides, I have more faith in Martin than Chretien AND Harper. As long as the NDP remains on the outside fringe looking in - I'll be happy.

Since we've taken a severe segway into 'welly' and the safety net, I'd just like to weigh in on that subject...lets see if I got this right...the NDP had it pegged at 1600 canuckles, and then the Uncommom Sense Revolution whacked away at it until it sat at 1100 canuckles.

A person working for minimum wage at $8 and change, (say a cashier at Stedmans), gets to work about 4 half days a week for a total of just over 700 canuckles a month.

4x4x4x$8=$712 (and change)

Hmmm...work for $700...welfare for $1100....

um....I think I know why welly is preferable to most (even educated) single people, don't you?
Either that or get another job ( I know that's what a conservative would be thinking immediately), but there is that damn conflict of time...No, sir, I can't come in Saturday...I'm putting in time at the Timmies. (Oh Oh...better look for another job)

Even if it did work out, you might make $1500 doing two jobs, but then taxes kick in, don't they?

Yup...crappy system...the only way out is to raise minimum wage...

oops....fired again

Your post contained little in the form of any substance and you conviently ignore evidence(in every conversation we have had thus far) that doesn't fit your world view. You say you have a degree in economics from Waterloo(highly doubtful because at University they at least "try" to teach you to attack all sides of a problem and not to conviently ignore things that doesn't suit you personally, did you take Political Science too You sound like Harper/Harris/MulRony all rolled into one) and even if you are telling the truth that proves the Silver Spoon remark right there ) but from what little you have said you have not convinced me of that. You seem upset? Did I hit a nerve or somthing? OK BIG Economics degree "man", answer me this question. How does US Softwood Tariffs(and in turn Canadian subisdies) fit in with Free Trade as it seems to me there is no free trade there. What about our massive subsidies to Bombardier? What about the USA's farming subsidies and ours to boot? How bout the artificial devaulation of the USD which is definately hurting our exports and entertainment industry, how is that Free Trade. It isn't its plain old protectionism(and We have to respond in kind creates a more self-reliant and decentralized economy which also has the side benefit of being less vulnerable to terror attacks), all NAFTA has done is give the US economic leverage over us, and it may not be strangling us...yet but just wait the decline in the USD has just begun. Really the only thing we can count on the Americans to honor the "free" trade agreement is Oil trade and thats cuz they wanna get off of Saudi Oil "bud"

SO TELL ME WHERE IS THE FREE TRADE GONNA START IM STILL WAITING!

The only people I know who have made money off of free trade are those actively participating in the Markets or who were lucky enough to ride the Infotech wave. Basically People like me. If it wasn't for Oil, Ontario, Quebec our growth rate would be negative, plain and simple. Beware the double-edged sword, the Americans will learn as the process is starting to shift towards the Pacific Rim countries. Now when that is finished and all is said and done and if you are still posting on ATS then I will be the first to say "I Told ya so " You think it will benefit us? What about the massive unemployment in the East Coast that is mostly the fault of NAFTA. Is that just a statistic to you Mr. "Economist". Man the guys at work would tear you a new one if you spewed that crap on the trading floor(yup No long independant got a nice job at TD Waterhouse) Actually you'd probably be fired for falsifying your education.

Well Razor I hope that fancy "degree" will give you comfort, there is already a movement to pull out of NAFTA led mostly by Mexico which Canada shares alot of the same grievances with the USA. If ya want me to list them I can do so..later I'm tired right now. I highly doubt you will win btw, even the American Conservatives will admit they got a sweet deal with NAFTA. They rolled all over our "embassador" ... more like Traitor, wonder how much they promised him....

Originally posted by masqua
A person working for minimum wage at $8 and change, (say a cashier at Stedmans), gets to work about 4 half days a week for a total of just over 700 canuckles a month.

Firstly Our minimum wage is 7.85 and secondly the sample family(which was not made up Razor if you want you can come to my hood and meet them as well as alot of other people as well, you might change your mind then) was a single mother with four children. An extreme case, just what the system was meant for and it failed them. What was the mother supposed to do leave the children to thier own devices just so she could earn a so-called "decent" living?

oops....fired again

Doh. Hope you were joking btw. Getting Fired sux

As long as the NDP remains on the outside fringe looking in - I'll be happy.

Eh don't care much for the NDP either. Layton ran in my riding and he sounded like a dick to tell you the truth(especially when he proposed to turn the Local Old Folks home into a homeless shelter.. ), I'm sure I've mentioned this a million times over but I mostly identify with the Greens.

[edit on 13-1-2005 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by sardion2000
Firstly Our minimum wage is 7.85

It's supposed to go over $8.00 in the next year, isn't it?

Originally posted by parrhesia

Originally posted by sardion2000
Firstly Our minimum wage is 7.85

It's supposed to go over $8.00 in the next year, isn't it?

I thought the promise was 1 dollar increase or somthing to that effect bringing it up to 8.65 by 2007.

Originally posted by sardion2000

I thought the promise was 1 dollar increase or somthing to that effect bringing it up to 8.65 by 2007.

Ya, something like that.
I think it was just raised to 7.85 a few weeks ago, as well, from 7.15.