Should we be ashamed? Why, yes, yes we should.

a reply to: seagull

Since they never got out of the Dark Ages in many respects and the rest of us managed to leave it a long time ago, I would say 70 years isn't the problem you make it out to be. Maybe it's partially to do with their overly tribal Arab culture combined with their version of Islam that has something to do with it.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: seagull

So what else should I be ashamed of?

I'm sick of people telling other they should be ashamed because of such and such it's getting old.

Are you sure it's not just plain old shame you're experiencing?
While millions of people around the world are doing something to help, some here claim that it's not their responsibility to help the "Muslim terrorists" - even when they're three years old.

Nope no shame here I volunteer my time when I can to help those in need in my area.
Does sending donations to some group that may or may not go where it should make you feel like you made a difference? I use my time to help people not money.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

My pic of the Dead Kid

"Kids" are baby goats. This is a human child.

a reply to: Rocker2013

AH so being in the military is so awful and bad?.
AS an independent I am NOT a simple left/right idiot who demands others comply.
DEFINING by what YOU think only is the hallmark of a fool,you are quite capable in that regard.

a reply to: thesaneone

And more power to you, sir.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: ketsuko
And how much in aid money have we sent to those nations? What were we doing sending that money if it only led to this?

How many people are we expected to care for when can't even care for our own?

Aid? We sent near 200 Tornado sorties into libya as well as giving the rebels 800 million in aid for "communication equipment". That's the "Aid" we gave those countries.

Yes, aid! Check it out. We give the whole ME both economic and military assistance every year.

Yeah, Bomb them into the stone age then chuck a few dollars there way, That sorts the problem.

originally posted by: thesaneone
is doing enough mean just ranting from the comforts of you cozy home?

Even if that were true, it's still better than ignoring the plight of others and claiming it's nothing to do with you.
I'm not even talking about any activism or any real work here, I'm talking about the simple act of feeling something for other Humans who need help.

The dismissive, selfish, racist, xenophobic and downright hateful attitudes I've seen here from some over the last few days has shown me that many on ATS can't even bring themselves to feel Human emotions about something that is clearly tragic and unjust.

Is it really too much to ask that people here feel emotions for people suffering, rather than saying "they deserve it"?

The conversations here and the opinions some are expressing about this issue are verging on psychopathy.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
a reply to: destination now

1. Turkey is NOT a safe place for refugees. This is NOT a country welcoming them or even offering the safety. Turkey is deeply divided on similar tribal lines as the countries these people are now fleeing.

2. Greece is the first country they reach, but in Greece they are not processing refugee or asylum applications and they are not getting the support nations are SUPPOSED to give them. In addition to this, they see that the German people are willing to help them when most other European countries (including the UK) are slamming the door in their faces.

3. Germany, and its people, are working damn hard to help hundreds of thousands of displaced people, while numerous other countries in Europe are doing nothing at all. Which country would you want to go to? One where you'll get absolutely no help at all from the government or the people, while risking being attacked or even killed by mobs of fascists nationalists? Or Germany, where the vast majority of the public are doing everything they can?

4. Our services in the UK are not stretched to breaking point because of the numbers of people here, they are stretched because of the Conservative government making drastic cuts to our services while allowing their corporate buddies to funnel profits out of this country and avoiding billions in tax. If you want to complain about how hard we have it in the UK, you need to be blaming our elitist government of Tory toffs and their special interests in Corporations and Bankers, not the women and children fleeing a war zone.

According to this, Turkey is perfectly safe for refugees Syrian Refugees in Turkey

As for Greece being unable to help, it's absolutely no wonder they can't help, their economy is in the toilet, there are limits on what money people can take from banks etc, they are broke!

70 years ago, the world took in millions of refugees from Germany (and other countries they had invaded), then forgave them their debt and allowed them to become one of the wealthiest European countries, so yes, they can shoulder more than their fair share

Yawn...that old chestnut..blame the conservatives for everything, the health service was in serious disarray prior to the coalition govt of 2010, partly due to unfettered immigration and the open movement for EU citizens, Scotland's population grew by a million people in under 5 years, but there are no extra doctors, more beds in hospitals, more schools, teachers etc. The existing infrastructure was under pressure and needed to be upgraded, repaired etc, not leaving much to build new premises and get more doctors, nurses, teachers etc trained. Okay I do agree with the large corporations and that something should be done about that, but it's not just the Tories responsible for that, the last labour govt were just as bad..who can forget when they bailed out the banks and put us into so much debt that our great, great grandchildren will probably still be paying for it.

a reply to: thesaneone

As you...

I do what I can. Habitat for Humanity has not only received my money, but my time as well.

Soup kitchens have benefited from both my money and my time.

Reading programs for kids and adults likewise.

I've donated my time giving rides to the local VA for veterans who may lack transportation.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Rocker2013

AH so being in the military is so awful and bad?.
AS an independent I am NOT a simple left/right idiot who demands others comply.
DEFINING by what YOU think only is the hallmark of a fool,you are quite capable in that regard.

Where did I even mention the military, where did that come from?
And it was YOU who decided to bring politics into this by calling me a "liberal" (which is supposed to be some kind of insult, apparently lol) because I'm a Humanitarian. YOU are the one who brought politics into this, NOT me.

If you don't want to make a discussion political, don't be tossing out attempts to call people Liberal for having a Humanitarian belief.

You were the one who directly connected being Humanitarian with being Liberal.

a reply to: Rocker2013

I have no problem with helping when people can what I do have a problem with lately is this trend of trying to shame people who think differently all that will be accomplished is more hate towards each other.

a reply to: Rocker2013

I read your previous work BEFORE so I know your ...proclivities.
Another judgemental ranter who slams those outside his boxes, SPOT ON bub.
WE have DIGRESSED enough,let the others have their say.

The military IS my income for the rest of my life.
I am aware 3rd world countries suck, I'VE been in some.

a reply to: destination now

Yes, but the last Labour government are not the ones in power.
I entirely agree that successive governments have failed, in so many ways, but Labour are not running our government RIGHT NOW, the Conservatives are.

Trying to pin everything that's happening now on past governments is a fools game.

As for immigration in the past, we have not collapsed as a society, people are better off than they were three decades ago, this belief that things were "better in the good old days" is absolute bs.

This island has always experienced immigration, and that is not going to change, it's what has made our nation what it is.
In addition, no one is expecting out country to open the doors to let millions of people flood in, that's NOT what this is about. This is about accepting REFUGEES as a part of the EU, which is our duty. This is about being Human, caring for others, assisting people who need it.

The idea that refugees will flood into this country and instantly be clogging up our NHS, requiring three bedroom houses and all the benefits we can throw at them is Daily Mail bullsh*t.

All these people need is a roof, food, water, and eventually a way to support themselves and make decisions for the future of their families away from the threat of death.

If that's too much to give them then we have no right to call ourselves "Great Britain", we are certainly not Great right now.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
I saw the pics of at least 6 dead children on that same beach.

So what?
I could pull pics of dead kids in Somalia or Nigeria if I wanted to.
You are a selective, picky, choosy drama queen, nothing more.

So What?.....Says it all really.

No it doesn't.
It is a pity you make unfounded assertions when you rant your silliness.

a reply to: seagull

Let us begin with thou shalt not kill. Then, thou shall not kill in my name.
I believe if this one single value is manifested, many of these higher order evils will be greatly reduced.

Life will still be unfair.

Seek power not authority.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Life is unfair. That's simple truth.

It is, however, a bit more unfair for some, than for others.

Let us begin with thou shalt not kill. Then, thou shall not kill in my name.
I believe if this one single value is manifested, many of these higher order evils will be greatly reduced.

I wish that were true. To all things there is a time and a place. ...and that includes killing. The trick, however, is figuring out when that time has come, and equally important, when the time has come to stop.

Live and let live as a govt. policy would go far in reducing the necessity, that's a horrible way to phrase it, to kill.

a reply to: Rocker2013

I am not laying the blame for everything on the last govt...all govt sucks, I just get really fed up with the anti-tory rhetoric when they are currently dealing with many of the issues from the last administration...the Syrian crisis can be firmly laid at Tony Blair's feet and his unlawful invasion of Iraq alongside G W Bush..war criminals the pair of them! But that's another discussion.

As for the immigration issue, I also agree to a point that there have been no problems in the past and we are a richer, more culturally diverse country for it, though more recently we have been experiencing more issues with every increasing migration to the UK, with many migrants relying on the generous tax credits and housing benefit systems to top up low wages, whereas if these incentives were not available it would probably not be worth their while to leave their own countries, mainly Eastern Europe.

However, the UK has agreed to take refugees not only from Syria but from anywhere where people are being persecuted and has taken and is continuing to take refugees in, the issue is with the numbers and what the EU and Merkel want us to take, and of course once you bring the ECHR into it, those refugees granted asylum can then bring family members to their adoptive country possibly expanding the numbers 4 or even 5 fold.

There are just many issues that need to be addressed before we simply open the border and say yes, we'll take every oppressed person who wants to be here and we will house, feed and clothe you and your family for the rest of your lives..

originally posted by: destination now
a reply to: Rocker2013

I am not laying the blame for everything on the last govt...all govt sucks, I just get really fed up with the anti-tory rhetoric when they are currently dealing with many of the issues from the last administration....

How far should we go back.? The collapse of local communities in todays UK is a direct result of Thatcher and her Tory millionaire scumbag friends. They destroyed decent hard working communities the length and breadth of the UK.