Should we be ashamed? Why, yes, yes we should.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

If your child washed ashore what would you think of the comic? Bad taste imo.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Reallyfolks

We should all be fighting to do just that several hours a week. It seems overwhelming but if you don't try then you've automatically failed.

I want to apologize to the mods and while it seems like this may be thread drift it gets to really why this and most things like it happen. If you deem it thread drift I am hoping you will let it slide.

Now to kali,

You have seen me say repeatadly pick your poison Clinton/Bush that they are the only two corrupted and connected enough. So let's lay this out. Understand what I am saying has been happening/ growing.

Both Bush and Clinton are expected to bank between 2.5 and 3 billion dollars each to campaign on. Now in order to do that you must have access to a great number of people with power, money, influence, and clout. In some cases multilple candidates have the access to the same people for obvious reasons. It's not just the money it's also the power, influence and , clout. Why? Because these are the people who control the political parties and deciede who makes the final cut to be presented to the people to compete for the ultimate prize. Think about that for the moment it not that your vote doesn't count ( arguably) it's that the power brokers in both parties with this money, influence, power, and connections are the ones able to set the stage as to whom you even have a choice to vote for.

Now in order to get these very needed items to get the honor of being presented what does a candidate have to do? Spend a life time exchanging favors. These aren't the i buy your taco bell lunch today and you buy my subway tomorrow type favors, these are you get me into office, I use the power of the government to benefit you type favors. So the candidate process is very flawed to begin with, because to make it to be presented you must have been selling this government power or in some cases made large promises to sell this government power to even navigate to the top spot in your party. You have this group of people that have all the things that a candidate will need to get to that point of top two. Behind the scenes it's the same thing, this group of people have used this access to politicians to have other people appointed judges, other government positions. Used businesses to get people jobs in about every industry imaginable ( media?, ) etc. So a group of people the 1% have weaved this huge web of interconnected people , all owing them favors, and they use this network to be the king and queen makers in politics. The politicians sell the law, and so on. It goes much deeper and complex than this but just to get a small view. This happens at an international level pertaining to foreign affairs but it's the same basic thing.
The whole process to even get to the position of political power is extremely tangled and interconnected. Controlled by a much smaller group. But when accounting for all needed to get their, it's easy to understand why and how some are presented to compete for votes and some are not. Play ball, there's money, support, judges, media, and so on to help you. Don't and you are the flavor of the month and a nice side story and distraction.

Now once in power and military really fits this mold but it applies to most issues and problems. Something kicks off or setup depends on how you look at it and military intervention is out there as a possibility. Well then, the web goes to work. Granted you have businesses like defense contractors, oil, private military contractors, etc. who would be wanting this. Who else might you have? Company who makes MRE's, companies to get some water over there. You may have pharmaceutical companies pushing seeing not only increased sales to the military but afterwards during the humanitarian efforts, same thing for companies that make things like batteries. Then you may have people not even expected pushing as well ( Hollywood on the down low? Who doesn't like a good war story after a little dust up). Want to take the dimplomatic effort , you have companies pushing this who see dollar signs from increased trade of their products ( Iran). Want to take a long term drone stance.that's cool what companies would benefit, probably many of the same. Defense contractors may lose out on our military sales, could they arm those fighting? ( Syria....maybe). Point is doesn't matter the solution really as someone will always benefit.
Now all the powerful people start calling in favors, various politicians will then start pushing various solutions to a problem and eventually one starts taking hold in the public. Doesn't matter what it is because those calling in favors will benefit no matter which one takes hold, just how much and with whom. Now you got the "competeing" political sides here fighting over the "solution" or may even coming together one saying security, the other saying the war lovers are wrong but for the sake of the innocent I will agree. Again, doesn't matter what message is crafted or even what " solution" is agreed upon. What does matter the illusion of a difference between the two parties must exist as to present a choice to the people so they feel involved. And the powerful who put these politicians in power back in the beginning must benefit so that this interconnected web of favors can continue. Heck once the messages are crafted and delievered the people will will take over and fight. Politicians are planning credit and blame, those who benefit are determing bottom lines based on the solution accepted, and the process of favors is being determined when it's all said and done.

Quite honestly the more bitter the argument the better, allows more planning for all involved. You get other fights going on say communties vs cops, race vs race, etc. Even better. Less time for people to see some of the larger issues coming because they are distracted , just enough time to come up from day to day fights, pick one or the other solutions offered which again doesn't matter. Return to other pressing issues, which are treated pretty much the same way. Bunch of issues, bunch of confusion, solutions that aren't really solutions but more used to determine who and how much of a benefit is received.

I know I missed a lot in this post. But it was really just an attempt to layout how I see things. So when I say don't be too hard because the process needs to change. I'm not talking Sanders or trump who both amuse me but just aren't on the inside and indebited enough to get presented. I'm talking something earth shaking biblical type changes. When people get fed up enough with d and r what will happen. The same connected people will start a new party and present it as the fresh solution and repeat. And the media filled with people given jobs by the same connected people running politicians will help in the crafting and delievery of the message. It's a real ugly situation. At the moment, be a good person, help as you can, don't get too tied up in the little things, don't be overwhelmed by the big things, don't be too hard on yourself, and don't quit fighting. Then again this could all be a figment of my imagination. Your call

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Soloprotocol

If the UK had opened its borders then the child would still be dead. They would have to cross the Med to get here.
The parents chose not to claim asylum in Turkey, a safe country which would have fed and clothed the child.
It was their choice as parents.
They #ed up in my opinion.

This ^^^^^ sounds like someone..Oh wait UKIP candidate. .

a reply to: seagull

As long as our leaders allow a financial system that demands poverty, we will never evolve past where we are.

SnF

a reply to: Soloprotocol

I have now officially seen the Donald Trump of the UK.

a reply to: seagull

I'm over this already. Why should I be ashamed? I didn't kill this child, the Syrian's fighting did.

I feel zero shame.

Do I wish the fighting would stop?

Yes.

Am I aware my interference will only create more destabilization in the region?

Yes.

So I do not do nothing because I am too scared, or lazy, or careless.

I do nothing because we tried this several times in the middle east already and it has done nothing.

Shame on you for using this child's death to try and promote more war.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Soloprotocol

If your child washed ashore what would you think of the comic? Bad taste imo.

I posted the real pic earlier and it got removed and i received a warning. I thought the cartoon one would be more in line with ATS rules and regs but get the same message across without crossing a line.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Soloprotocol

I have now officially seen the Donald Trump of the UK.

Explain.?

a reply to: Reallyfolks

I feel bad that you took up so much time typing but I'm hyper aware of how our political system works, sill it change if we do nothing? Definitely not. Will it change if we try to do something. Just maybe. I'll take just maybe. You can think me silly and naive all you want, a lot of people do. I can't change.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Soloprotocol

I have now officially seen the Donald Trump of the UK.

Explain.?

A UK politician saw a well dressed child refugee and the only ignorant statement he could think of was look, he has nice shoes.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Soloprotocol

If your child washed ashore what would you think of the comic? Bad taste imo.

I posted the real pic earlier and it got removed and i received a warning. I thought the cartoon one would be more in line with ATS rules and regs but get the same message across without crossing a line.

It's a touchy pic to say the least. even when an animated nicer version is presented. I get the point, but it's just bad taste. (not a dig at you)

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Soloprotocol

I have now officially seen the Donald Trump of the UK.

Explain.?

A UK politician saw a well dressed child refugee and the only ignorant statement he could think of was look, he has nice shoes.

Sorry, thought you were accusing me of being the UK's Donald Trump. Tinternet confusion.

originally posted by: Hijinx
a reply to: seagull

I'm over this already. Why should I be ashamed? I didn't kill this child, the Syrian's fighting did.

I feel zero shame.

Do I wish the fighting would stop?

Yes.

Am I aware my interference will only create more destabilization in the region?

Yes.

So I do not do nothing because I am too scared, or lazy, or careless.

I do nothing because we tried this several times in the middle east already and it has done nothing.

Shame on you for using this child's death to try and promote more war.

You don’t suppose to really feel shame....It’s an intellectual, moral ideal here were talking about.

An intellectual shame where the concept of apathy and neglect shown for what it is…a human frailty on the par with what makes us feel shame by neglecting to do good to others when we can


Don’t take it personal

a reply to: Kali74

SO you want MY guys to go do MORE killing then.
THEN you can attack THEM when they com back from killing BECAUSE WAR IS BAD ,unfortunately THAT is what would NEED to be done to fix that.

WAIT I GOT it YOU PROGRESSIVES go this time istead of MEAN old nasty SOLDIERS!
THEN you will see what we are talikng about and MAYBE you'd quit with the butthurt feelings WE CAN'T FIX.

Ashamed? nope not in the least. Lifes hard. get over it.

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Soloprotocol

If your child washed ashore what would you think of the comic? Bad taste imo.

I posted the real pic earlier and it got removed and i received a warning. I thought the cartoon one would be more in line with ATS rules and regs but get the same message across without crossing a line.

It's a touchy pic to say the least. even when an animated nicer version is presented. I get the point, but it's just bad taste. (not a dig at you)

No Worries. I understand that ATS doesn't for whatever reason like to see the realities of War or in this case Refugees fighting for survival, but these images need to be seen by all.
A warning for me is a small price to pay as far as i'm concerned.

a reply to: yuppa

I do hurt inside about them all.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Reallyfolks

I feel bad that you took up so much time typing but I'm hyper aware of how our political system works, sill it change if we do nothing? Definitely not. Will it change if we try to do something. Just maybe. I'll take just maybe. You can think me silly and naive all you want, a lot of people do. I can't change.

No I think you might be concentrating on the wrong way to change the system. I think most people want a change, want to fight for the change. I suppose in the end that's really what people backing Sanders and trump are doing. Fighting to change the system the best way they can. Not naive though.

All I do know without mass change it will keep happening. And as sad as it is and it is, I'm not responsible for this child dying, I owe nothing for this child dying, I feel no shame for this child dying. But it's not to say I'm not willing to voluntarirly help out with a donation of say money, blood to red cross, etc.

OK, they had their Dead Baby moment. Frankly, seeing those hordes of able-bodied men of military age simply RUNNING AWAY fills me with disgust. Oh, save us, when do our benefits start. Like most third-world people, the bulk of the Syrian men would rather hide from the bombs than fight for freedom. Such people are doomed to be ruled by evil men with guns. Our ancestors risked death to be free, and some of them died. Yes, there are brave freedom fighters in Syria, but it's not enough for victory.
a reply to: seagull

originally posted by: Parthin96
OK, they had their Dead Baby moment. Frankly, see those hordes of able-bodied men of military age simply RUNNING AWAY fills me with disgust. Oh, save us, when do our benefits start. Like most third-world people, the bulk of the Syrian men would rather hide from the bombs than fight for freedom. Such people are doomed to be ruled by evil men with guns. Our ancestors risked death to be free, and some of them died. Yes, there are brave freedom fighters in Syria, but it's not enough for victory.
a reply to: seagull

Maybe they are not the bloodthirsty savages the media make them out to be and they choose not to kill other human beings.